Plan B for Fixing Penn Station Would Wrap Madison Square Garden in Glass

[cwede]

...Other than the emergency stairwells, it's not the same arena...

and those stairways ain't been the same destination since early '80s .

 

[JimmyG89]

There is no shot Dolan is moving MSG away from a major hub for people to get to. If I had to guess, MSG stays exactly where it is. If the city and state don't understand the tax revenue that is made from the surrounding area, moving it would change all of that. You'd need to ensure that there are hotels close enough. I'd also think that the surrounding businesses would have a major gripe of not having the events near them.

 

[Crease]

To @JimmyG89 ’s point, a not insignificant number of Knicks and Rangers fans are coming into Manhattan from Westchester, Long Island, and New Jersey. Those fans come in through Grand Central Terminal, Penn Station, and Port Authority Bus Terminal. Those hubs are all within walking distance of MSG. Mass transit is littered with Rangers and Knicks jerseys after every home game. MSG is perfectly located from an owner’s perspective.

 

[nyrmetros]

It's been gut renovated. Other than the outside façade and the interior ceiling, there is little relationship between the current MSG and its prior iterations. Current MSG is basically a high-end mall with Chase ATMs, a Lexus dealership, and a food court wrapped around a sports playing surface. Other than the emergency stairwells, it's not the same arena where Matteau ended the '94 ECF.

Very true. It's a mall arena now. But it's the same physical building and location. Shrug shoulder.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Plan B for Fixing Penn Station Would Wrap Madison Square Garden in Glass
Looks like there are new plans to "fix" Penn Station. Basically tear down the Theater, and wrap MSG in glass. The renders don't look bad. I would not be against this as MSG is pretty ugly. I am surprised that Dolan and Co. didn't do anything to the exterior of MSG during the renovation. They could have cladded it with glass or LED screens. The current brown stone face looks so dated.

When the discussion about renovating/new building were happening 10-15 years ago, I always thought the Farley building across the street made for a great exterior. Dolan was ready to build there, but City Council dragged their feet and dragged their feet. Eventually he said, "Screw you, I am just renovating." Now, every few years some local politician wants to get attention so they bring this up. Is Christine Quinn even involved in Politics anymore? Haven't heard her name since she lost the primary to DiBlasio and she was a big proponent of trying to get MSG out. Last thing any commuter at Penn Station needs is for them to make it "look nice" and draw a bigger crowd just hanging/walking around and shopping.

 

[RosensRug]

Knock it down and rebuild it In L.I.C. between Queensboro Plaza, Queens Plaza. 7,E,M,R,W subway lines and LIRR Hunter’s Point station (Huntington line) they can build a light train like they did between JFK and Jamaica Station to connect all three stations.

The LIRR barely wanted to work with the Islanders with the UBS service. They made the team and the state build a $105 station a mile away from the arena when an existing stop already existed 500 yards from the front door.

There is 0 chance the LIRR would do ANYTHING if an Arena in LIC was built.

 

[Boris Zubov]

The LIRR barely wanted to work with the Islanders with the UBS service. They made the team and the state build a $105 station a mile away from the arena when an existing stop already existed 500 yards from the front door.

There is 0 chance the LIRR would do ANYTHING if an Arena in LIC was built.

So for someone who doesn't live on Long Island anymore, where does the LIRR to UBS actually stop? And why didn't they expand the pre-existing Belmont stop?

 

[patnyrnyg]

So for someone who doesn't live on Long Island anymore, where does the LIRR to UBS actually stop? And why didn't they expand the pre-existing Belmont stop?

IIRC, it is on the Hempstead line. So, it is either drive to Hempstead (most arent going to) or take the train to Jamaica and back out to Belmont.

 

[Calad]

IIRC, it is on the Hempstead line. So, it is either drive to Hempstead (most arent going to) or take the train to Jamaica and back out to Belmont.

Train stopped at UBS on the Huntington line last night

 

[nyrmetros]

The LIRR barely wanted to work with the Islanders with the UBS service. They made the team and the state build a $105 station a mile away from the arena when an existing stop already existed 500 yards from the front door.

There is 0 chance the LIRR would do ANYTHING if an Arena in LIC was built.

Though there is a stop 500 yards away from the arena, weren't there major issues in regards to the switches and crossovers required for eastbound service from the Belmont secondary?

 

[RosensRug]

So for someone who doesn't live on Long Island anymore, where does the LIRR to UBS actually stop? And why didn't they expand the pre-existing Belmont stop?

They built a stop and a series of new switches right on the main line so Huntington, Hempstead, Ronkomaka, and Oyster Bay trains can directly service the new elmont station. Drawback is its a long walk from the main line, around the turn of the track, and to the arena. Or you wait for a shuttle bus (which tbh isn't bad before the game but after the game I've had mixed results.

Up until the most recent schedule change the LIRR ran 4 shuttle trains from Jamaica right to the racetrack station which I opted to use whenever i went to UBS. Dropped you off right in front of the arena and it was an easy ride back to Jamaica to grab a snack or whatever before getting on my connecting train.

I believe some of the switches leading in and out of the station were actually hand thrown (probably the last ones on the system where passenger trains run) so going onto and off the spur was a slow ride but it wasn't that bad. Canceling those trains was just an easy cop out for the LIRR where they can cite the crew shortages and equipment shortages.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

Dolan is in the process of building "MSG Sphere" in Vegas for 2.2 Billion. He's going to start another monster project so soon?

He's building the death star?

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Honestly, just find a way to fix the damn ice already whether there's a new Garden, refit Garden, or a living breathing MSG.

 

[nyrmetros]

They built a stop and a series of new switches right on the main line so Huntington, Hempstead, Ronkomaka, and Oyster Bay trains can directly service the new elmont station. Drawback is its a long walk from the main line, around the turn of the track, and to the arena. Or you wait for a shuttle bus (which tbh isn't bad before the game but after the game I've had mixed results.

Up until the most recent schedule change the LIRR ran 4 shuttle trains from Jamaica right to the racetrack station which I opted to use whenever i went to UBS. Dropped you off right in front of the arena and it was an easy ride back to Jamaica to grab a snack or whatever before getting on my connecting train.

I believe some of the switches leading in and out of the station were actually hand thrown (probably the last ones on the system where passenger trains run) so going onto and off the spur was a slow ride but it wasn't that bad. Canceling those trains was just an easy cop out for the LIRR where they can cite the crew shortages and equipment shortages.

Wow hand thrown switches?

 

[Peltz]

I love where it is. MSG is home and the location is part of that. I hope it never moves.

 

[RosensRug]

Wow hand thrown switches?

Yeah the switch off the main line onto the spur is automatic but I believe everything else through the wye and into the station complex is all hand thrown.

 

[sbjnyc]

It is NY state.....or else it would be the New York City Rangers. And guess what, you move them to westchester, you wouldnt have to change the name OR logo

Islanders moved to Brooklyn and kept their old nassau/suffolk logo ... NY jets and NY giants moved moved to NJ ... but don't move the garden ... or the rangers.

 

[sbjnyc]

So for someone who doesn't live on Long Island anymore, where does the LIRR to UBS actually stop? And why didn't they expand the pre-existing Belmont stop?

It's on the wrong end of the race track.

Arena -- Belmont stop -- Racetrack -- UBS stop

 

[nyrmetros]

Yeah the switch off the main line onto the spur is automatic but I believe everything else through the wye and into the station complex is all hand thrown.

Just surprised they still have hand switches on a semi active passenger spur.

 

[bobbop]

It's the fourth building and third location so named and is still viewed with major shade by people my parents' age and older because it was an unlovely brown watch battery that replaced a beautiful and historic train station and replaced it with a shit hole. Landmark preservation efforts in NYC were sparked by the construction of the Garden.

The beautiful and historic train station was a dump in the 1960s. I’m old enough to remember. Penn Station never had anywhere near the grandeur of Grand Central.

 

[Baby Punisher]

Plan B for Fixing Penn Station Would Wrap Madison Square Garden in Glass
Looks like there are new plans to "fix" Penn Station. Basically tear down the Theater, and wrap MSG in glass. The renders don't look bad. I would not be against this as MSG is pretty ugly. I am surprised that Dolan and Co. didn't do anything to the exterior of MSG during the renovation. They could have cladded it with glass or LED screens. The current brown stone face looks so dated.
View attachment 677447View attachment 677446

If anyone recalls, the exterior of MSG stayed the same except for replacing the outdoor video boards because any alterations to the exterior would have required permits issued by the city. The city and state want Dolan to move and weren't about to issue permits without getting something in return from Dolan.

I wouldn't be against having the Rangers play in UBS or Prudential for two years if they could tear down MSG and the current iteration of Penn Station, and build something modern for both MSG V and the new Penn Station. They would have to work nonstop 24/7 to get it done. It's a pipe dream though..oh well.

You got the Izod center as an option too.

 

[Baby Punisher]

Dolan is in the process of building "MSG Sphere" in Vegas for 2.2 Billion. He's going to start another monster project so soon?

That thing is massively over budget. Dolan has a lot riding on the Sphere's success.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

To @JimmyG89 ’s point, a not insignificant number of Knicks and Rangers fans are coming into Manhattan from Westchester, Long Island, and New Jersey. Those fans come in through Grand Central Terminal, Penn Station, and Port Authority Bus Terminal. Those hubs are all within walking distance of MSG. Mass transit is littered with Rangers and Knicks jerseys after every home game. MSG is perfectly located from an owner’s perspective.

If MNRR gets Penn Station access, even more

 

[Sayba]

Where would we play in the meantime?


Here's the problem with that:

View attachment 677464

And if you think that's New York State, I have a few hundred bridges to sell you.

 

[DaBadGuy7]

I posted this on a previous thread on a new MSG proposal on West 34 Street, which I think this the best possible location for a new arena:

I found this article a proposal last year on a new Garden at West 34th Street, not crazy about the rendering but location isn’t the worst:

Twin Supertalls Revealed as Part of Garden City, Possible Relocation of Madison Square Garden, in Midtown Manhattan - New York YIMBY

PAU | A Miracle on 34th Street