Plan B for Fixing Penn Station Would Wrap Madison Square Garden in Glass

[yrrebbor]

I’m surprised how little nostalgia and sentimentalism you guys have for MSG

They only thing is like to see is the bridges torn down!

Islanders moved to Brooklyn and kept their old nassau/suffolk logo ... NY jets and NY giants moved moved to NJ ... but don't move the garden ... or the rangers.

Brooklyn is part of Long Island. Queens too!

 

[sbjnyc]

Brooklyn is part of Long Island. Queens too!

Their logo only shows Nassau and suffolk and they didn't change it when they moved to Brooklyn. Now they are like 10 inches outside queens. Will be hard to move the i there.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I posted this on a previous thread on a new MSG proposal on West 34 Street, which I think this the best possible location for a new arena:

NYC's insistence on only providing one lane of roadway on major thoroughfares is absolutely asinine.

Really hope that's not a serious proposal.

 

[Peltz]

Is there a particular problem that needs fixing? Why is there so much interest in tearing down MSG or "fixing it"? I fail to see an issue with the design of it.

Is it about making Penn Station nicer? Because it's really fine as is.

 

[nyrmetros]

Is there a particular problem that needs fixing? Why is there so much interest in tearing down MSG or "fixing it"? I fail to see an issue with the design of it.

Is it about making Penn Station nicer? Because it's really fine as is.

21 tracks is not sufficient.

 

[Boris Zubov]

21 tracks is not sufficient.

The tracks are only one issue. The bigger issue is the number of tunnels going under the Hudson & East Rivers. Until that's rectified, Penn Station will always be the worst place on the planet.

 

[Crease]

21 tracks is not sufficient.

I never realized that Penn Station has only 21 tracks. By comparison Grand Central has 67.

 

[RosensRug]

21 tracks is not sufficient.

The 21 tracks aren't the main problem. It's the 4 east river tubes and 2 hudson river tubes that severely limit the amount of trains that can be run.

 

[Peltz]

 

[NCRanger]

The 21 tracks aren't the main problem. It's the 4 east river tubes and 2 hudson river tubes that severely limit the amount of trains that can be run.

Which is true, but there’s still a capacity problem in Jersey. There’s only 5 tracks at Newark. I realize things can be rerouted through Secaucus, but if everything stops there, it’s another bottleneck.

 

[Circus86]

Newest B1M video, thought this belongs here

 

[Boris Zubov]

Newest B1M video, thought this belongs here

Stresses me out just watching this. Even if they do overhaul it, it's gonna take at least 10 years, with no improvement in train service if they don't address the tube issues. It's a nightmare inside a nightmare. Glad this isn't my problem any more.

 

[yrrebbor]

There's a lot of hate on MSG coming from Albany. Hochul is convinced that Penn needs to be above ground, even with Moynihan being the new hub.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

There's a lot of hate on MSG coming from Albany. Hochul is convinced that Penn needs to be above ground, even with Moynihan being the new hub.

Remember: This state and NYC never seem to run out of ways to waste money on public transit.

Case in point, remember the Fulton Street dome?

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

There's a lot of hate on MSG coming from Albany. Hochul is convinced that Penn needs to be above ground, even with Moynihan being the new hub.

Well yeah they want to stroke themselves with some giant thing while only giving about 1/10th of a damn about the things that will make trains go easier.

 

[bobbop]

There's a lot of hate on MSG coming from Albany. Hochul is convinced that Penn needs to be above ground, even with Moynihan being the new hub.

You would think they would be taking a deep breath after what is happening (or not happening) on the East side LIRR station.

 

[bobbop]

I think the B1 plan was actually floated a while back abd discarded because of cost. There may not be the demand for as nmuch offices pace as what was once anticipated.

 

[nyrmetros]

21 tracks and only 2 tunnels to NJ are the biggest issue. That and 2 of the 3 railroads use Pennsylvania Station as a terminus and not a through station.

 

[Ratelleitlikeitis]

What's that old adage? Fans who cheer in glass arenas...

 

[RosensRug]

21 tracks and only 2 tunnels to NJ are the biggest issue. That and 2 of the 3 railroads use Pennsylvania Station as a terminus and not a through station.

Something like only 40 trains a day run "through" Penn station on a given weekday. Not to mention that all of them have extended stops in New York for total crew swaps so its not like your typical 2 minute on and off stop.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

 

[nyrmetros]

Something like only 40 trains a day run "through" Penn station on a given weekday. Not to mention that all of them have extended stops in New York for total crew swaps so its not like your typical 2 minute on and off stop.

Very good point on the train crew turnover.

 

[alkurtz]

It's an intractable problem. Penn Station needs to be drastically rebuilt for all those traveling on the LIRR. There is no argument that holds water against that need. It is even probably the "greater good" in opposition to a sports and entertainment complex. But, there is no viable option, none, for any and all reasons, for moving MSG. So, here we sit, year after year, decade after decade. I have no clue as to what the answer is, and frankly, given the reality of the situation, no one else has a solution either.

 

[RosensRug]

It's an intractable problem. Penn Station needs to be drastically rebuilt for all those traveling on the LIRR. There is no argument that holds water against that need. It is even probably the "greater good" in opposition to a sports and entertainment complex. But, there is no viable option, none, for any and all reasons, for moving MSG. So, here we sit, year after year, decade after decade. I have no clue as to what the answer is, and frankly, given the reality of the situation, no one else has a solution either.

The LIRR issues lie at Jamaica and I think that has become even more evident since the opening of Grand Central Madison. I split time between Manhattan and Long Island and I've noticed my commute particularly in the morning has slowed down noticeably. Before GCM opened my train was a straight shot from the Babylon branch with express running from Freeport to Jamaica. Every morning we slow down and stop for a few minutes at Valley Stream as Jamaica has too much congestion. That's where IMO the LIRR should be focusing on capacity improvements.

Penn Station in a few months is probably going to be as good as it'll ever get. The new concourse that is partially open now is a huge improvement compared to what was there before. The train hall is nice and the food hall in there allows for some better options for a quick bite to eat compared to what we had previously. From a commuters perspective a clean, safe space, with a handful of food/drink options and a Wallgreens is all you really need. People don't visit Penn station to hangout and explore like they do at Grand Central.

The tunnels to Long Island and to Jersey are an issue that will take decades to resolve. The platform space at Penn Station for time being is fine. Could there be a few minor improvements like multiple escalators to each track? Sure but for the most part things are good enough. The real issues lie in the politics and the homelessness issue that has always plagued the station and probably forever will.

 

[sbjnyc]

The LIRR issues lie at Jamaica and I think that has become even more evident since the opening of Grand Central Madison. I split time between Manhattan and Long Island and I've noticed my commute particularly in the morning has slowed down noticeably. Before GCM opened my train was a straight shot from the Babylon branch with express running from Freeport to Jamaica. Every morning we slow down and stop for a few minutes at Valley Stream as Jamaica has too much congestion. That's where IMO the LIRR should be focusing on capacity improvements.

Penn Station in a few months is probably going to be as good as it'll ever get. The new concourse that is partially open now is a huge improvement compared to what was there before. The train hall is nice and the food hall in there allows for some better options for a quick bite to eat compared to what we had previously. From a commuters perspective a clean, safe space, with a handful of food/drink options and a Wallgreens is all you really need. People don't visit Penn station to hangout and explore like they do at Grand Central.

The tunnels to Long Island and to Jersey are an issue that will take decades to resolve. The platform space at Penn Station for time being is fine. Could there be a few minor improvements like multiple escalators to each track? Sure but for the most part things are good enough. The real issues lie in the politics and the homelessness issue that has always plagued the station and probably forever will.

I split time also. Used to be I could take a 4:01 off peak from Penn direct to my stop in LI. Now it is 4:40 and the one before it is 3:09 - all the others are out of GC. None of the trains from LI go to my home stop in forest hills direct.

I like the idea of reducing congestion by adding another tunnel but without extra trains it doesn't really doesn't do anything.