The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[Zman5778]

I look at the situation of Kevyn Adams of having limitations more so than restrictions in terms of hockey moves. I don't think Kevyn is restricted to making any sort of moves to improve the team, but I do think for the bigger moves, Terry's influence is a factor in what Kevyn does in the final decision. Hell, I think there's a greater chance of Terry going to Kevyn asking if there are areas in which he can improve or where he thinks we can improve, and Kevyn being content where he is, than that of Terry declining Kevyn from making a minor trade or waiver claim.

If the reports are to be taken as word, Kevyn is very much a guy that may over-value his prospects, and being pretty stiff in holding that opinion with other GMs. When you have a guy like that, you're going to probably hear more stories of guys like that holding out to try and get more, to the point where GMs look elsewhere. We haven't heard anything that would point towards Kevyn being held back from Terry or anything that would resemble that.

Yep. I think what it comes down to is this: If Terry was getting in Kevyn's way of making roster moves, we would have heard SOMETHING from SOMEONE by now. I think "all" Terry wants is to be consulted.

Kevyn: "I'm thinking about trading for Greenway." *explains how it helps*
Terry: OK.

Kevyn: "I'm thinking about trading Savoie for McLeod" *explains logic*
Terry: OK.

Totally agreed that Kevyn is over-valuing what's on the roster and still starry-eyed about the ceilings of each of the young kids.......and still ignoring things like building an actual team instead of a collection of talent.

 

[Chainshot]

Yzerman?

There is no hint that Kyle Davidson is going anywhere in Chicago and this is going to be year 4 of him at the helm and well out of the playoffs.

 

[TageGod]

Yep. I think what it comes down to is this: If Terry was getting in Kevyn's way of making roster moves, we would have heard SOMETHING from SOMEONE by now. I think "all" Terry wants is to be consulted.

Kevyn: "I'm thinking about trading for Greenway." *explains how it helps*
Terry: OK.

Kevyn: "I'm thinking about trading Savoie for McLeod" *explains logic*
Terry: OK.

Totally agreed that Kevyn is over-valuing what's on the roster and still starry-eyed about the ceilings of each of the young kids.......and still ignoring things like building an actual team instead of a collection of talent.

Still obsessed with Cozens during the outside game against the Leafs.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Yep. I think what it comes down to is this: If Terry was getting in Kevyn's way of making roster moves, we would have heard SOMETHING from SOMEONE by now. I think "all" Terry wants is to be consulted.

Kevyn: "I'm thinking about trading for Greenway." *explains how it helps*
Terry: OK.

Kevyn: "I'm thinking about trading Savoie for McLeod" *explains logic*
Terry: OK.

Totally agreed that Kevyn is over-valuing what's on the roster and still starry-eyed about the ceilings of each of the young kids.......and still ignoring things like building an actual team instead of a collection of talent.

I think this is probably true, but I think it also leaves another part out. That's the part where KA can't spend beyond a certain limit unless somehow everyone in the room thinks it's a steal of a deal, including Pegula. The part where any knowledgeable GM wouldn't entertain an owner's input/approval of routine roster moves. That's where KA goes from being limited to restricted (which is semantics anyway). That's where KA goes from getting a chance despite no management experience, to being an unqualified yes-man with no success to show he still deserves the job. After five years, (really after 3-4) what has this guy done to justify keeping the gift that fell in his lap to begin with? The answer is nothing, and the only possible reason for that is because Pegula is directing and/or approving of how KA is running the org.

 

[jc17]

That would be a huge overpayment from Minnesota.

Face value yes, but I wonder if they could try to balance it out, could see it benefitting both teams. Both teams offload guys they seemingly don't have long term plans for. Avs get a guy who can contribute and has potential, Minnesota gets a decent C and presumably a very healthy add.

Mitts still passes the eye test for me. He plays aggressive defense and I didn't really see his speed as a significant department detriment. I watched an avs vs wild game, and while I'm a Rossi fan I don't think the current level of play is really that far apart. Dare I say Mitts might help Minnesota more. Granted, if Mitts speed is truly an issue in Colorado, I don't see Rossi being the guy to replace him

 

[toddkaz]

Yzerman?

You are right, I stand corrected but I would say Yzerman is much more of a special case than Adams given the history with the team. Detroit missed the playoffs by 1 point last year and are in a playoff position at the moment. At least there are some results.

 

[Fjordsen]

You are right, I stand corrected but I would say Yzerman is much more of a special case than Adams given the history with the team. Detroit missed the playoffs by 1 point last year and are in a playoff position at the moment. At least there are some results.

Well, Adams also somehow missed the playoffs by one point, although after that he clearly took the wrong road.

 

[toddkaz]

Well, Adams also somehow missed the playoffs by one point, although after that he clearly took the wrong road.

And unfortunately he refused to build on it and went in the wrong direction.

 

[Irie]

Yep. I think what it comes down to is this: If Terry was getting in Kevyn's way of making roster moves, we would have heard SOMETHING from SOMEONE by now. I think "all" Terry wants is to be consulted.

Kevyn: "I'm thinking about trading for Greenway." *explains how it helps*
Terry: OK.

Kevyn: "I'm thinking about trading Savoie for McLeod" *explains logic*
Terry: OK.

Totally agreed that Kevyn is over-valuing what's on the roster and still starry-eyed about the ceilings of each of the young kids.......and still ignoring things like building an actual team instead of a collection of talent.

It is very hard to imagine that any GM would actively work to keep costs down if he has full autonomy and a green light to spend, especially when the team hasn't made the playoffs in an eternity and the franchise is hemorrhaging fans. I also find it unimaginable that any GM would keep his job for five years with the current results unless his orders are to save money first and win second.

The Sabres are actually a good investment, as the franchise value is skyrocketing, but from a cash point of view, profits vs money dumped into the operating costs, the organization is a collosal money pit.

Terry's money spending priorities have 100% been on the Bills and not the Sabres since Kim has been out of the picture. If Adams was told to spend whatever necessary to win, I personally feel that this team would absolutely look substantially different. (Now, I don't know if Adams would be capable of actually building a winner, but I don't think there is anyway he builds the team the way he has, cutting costs left and right).

As far as the personnel decisions, we know Terry is in the meetings and we know Terry provides his opinions, and I have to assume that any owner that is that actively involved has at least as much say as any assistant GM. Adams has stated that he doesn't make decisions alone and that all decisions are weighed by the management team. The fact that most of his moves that bring in money have been paired with moves that shed similar amounts of payroll, I think the pattern is undeniable.

I also feel that some of the spending is forced by the narratives pushed by the fan base that Terry is cheap. If you buyout Skinner and save 7.5 million this season and then don't spend any of it, that isn't going to sit well with the fans. You sign Zucker to a one year 5M dollar deal and it still saves you money AND you get to claim you are trying.Adams' biggest job for Terry and the organization is to spin that into "See, Terry is not cheap". He takes the brunt of the heat and his ridiculous excuses are somewhat plausible. I think that is why he still has a job and why his job is safe.

 

[Chainshot]

I would assert that Kim‘s presence makes no difference to their spending. Terry was out of big spendingonce they bought the NFL team. That was before Kim‘s health crisis. She was still president of the whole Kit N Caboodle at that point.

 

[Ace]

The last time Pegula willingly added to spending in any meaningful way was when he was desperate to make Eichel happy and signed Hall.

Been a big load of nothing since then.

If you want to believe that’s a GM decision I don’t know what to tell you. The GM thinks having less hockey minds on staff and a payroll gap on the ice is the best way to win? And the owner who isn’t preventing spending and wants to win keeps him employed in spite of that failing to literal last place?

Sure Jan.

 

[Jim Bob]

I would assert that Kim‘s presence makes no difference to their spending. Terry was out of big spendingonce they bought the NFL team. That was before Kim‘s health crisis. She was still president of the whole Kit N Caboodle at that point.

Plus, Kim reportedly had a nickname in the building that was about firing people, so yeah...

 

[joshjull]

On mobile, so my short responses won't do your post justice, but I just hate typing on this

Same. Hate posting anything longer than a few sentences or a tweet when using my phone.

On the team/line situation: I agree with most of what you're saying, but I still think they passed on a a more ready player for upside.

At risk of rehashing 4.5 year old discussion, as silly as draft stats are most of the time guys who produce like Rossi rarely miss. The actual conversion of points isn't relevant, but they usually contribute. Stats aside, there weren't many knocks on his game, other than his size, and anyone watching him saw he didn't play small. He won more puck battles than Quinn when I watched. Idk, I just feel like they passed on guy because of size.

I could care less about the above. If you think I’m trying to rehash that draft or Quinn vs Rossi, I’m not. My focus is on what could make the team better now.

To be honest, I couldn’t care less about Quinn right now. What to do with Cozens is what I’m thinking about. I don’t want to trade him for Rossi for one simple reason. I don’t want more kids. I want more vets. If I’m trading Cozens, it should be in a package for a vet.

Disagree on Benson part because I still think that fits my idea. It’s not about scoring, even though that might sound like a contradiction of the previous paragraph. I don't look at cozens and Quinn as issues because of their production this year, it's because of routine mistakes, which in my opinion have been issues since they were drafted and an issue other prospects didn't necessarily have. Of course Benson isn't perfect, and his personality probably causes fans to overlook his mistakes from time to time. But he doesn't seem to have the braindead moments the other guys mentioned have routinely, and his on-ice numbers reflect this. Maybe poor IQ moments are due to the first couple years they spent on this team, maybe it’s been part of their games for a while.

Benson is not a top 6 winger at this point of his career. Thats just the reality of the situation no matter how much you tear down Cozens/Quinn.

 

[Fjordsen]

I could care less about the above. If you think I’m trying to rehash that draft or Quinn vs Rossi, I’m not. My focus is on what could make the team better now.

To be honest, I couldn’t care less about Quinn right now. What to do with Cozens is what I’m thinking about. I don’t want to trade him for Rossi for one simple reason. I don’t want more kids. I want more vets. If I’m trading Cozens, it should be in a package for a vet.

This is a controversial path, we need not only vets, but also good and productive players. Also, the problem with most vets is NTC/NMC and they do not go to Buffalo. Which players like Rossi do not have.

 

[Revelate]

I’m assuming there’s no talk of McCann because of the limited NTC? He is an Ontario guy so maybe there’s a chance. I realize he isn’t a true center but he’s the kind of veteran presence we need regardless.

 

[OkimLom]

I think this is probably true, but I think it also leaves another part out. That's the part where KA can't spend beyond a certain limit unless somehow everyone in the room thinks it's a steal of a deal, including Pegula. The part where any knowledgeable GM wouldn't entertain an owner's input/approval of routine roster moves. That's where KA goes from being limited to restricted (which is semantics anyway). That's where KA goes from getting a chance despite no management experience, to being an unqualified yes-man with no success to show he still deserves the job. After five years, (really after 3-4) what has this guy done to justify keeping the gift that fell in his lap to begin with? The answer is nothing, and the only possible reason for that is because Pegula is directing and/or approving of how KA is running the org.

I mean, in terms of the hockey side of things, EVERY team is limited to how much they can spend. It's the cap.

But with the Sabres how did you come to the conclusion that Pegula has put a limitation on how much can be spent? I know fans have all discussed about the Sabres not spending to the cap under Adams, but it feels like that was done because we do have a young team, and outside the "core" guys that Adams has seemingly said he's moving forward with (Power, Samuelsson, Cozens, Tage, Dahlin), he's handled the roster as such. The Mittelstadt trade I would point to being an issue of Adams feeling that Cozens would've taken the role Mittelstadt was occupying. He more than likely felt Kulich would eventually take the spot Cozens was utilizing at the time.

I haven't seen anything, or heard anything that really puts the spotlight on the move not being done BECAUSE Adams couldn't spend more than a certain amount internally from orders by ownership. I can understand, from a fan perspective, why things might appear to be that way, as the team really needed upgrades, and with cap space still available, fans could think there's a limitation, even with Adams saying he needed that money later, which fits in the thinking of Adams self-running a cap for roster management purposes.

But I haven't seen anything that points towards Pegula putting that cap on him. I think Pegula does put a serious weight on large value contracts when those discussions come up, which is understandable.

 

[Jim Bob]

I’m assuming there’s no talk of McCann because of the limited NTC? He is an Ontario guy so maybe there’s a chance. I realize he isn’t a true center but he’s the kind of veteran presence we need regardless.

Some people in the Sabres media world have thrown it out there.

But, most aren't contemplating it because he has a 10 team No Trade list and they figure that the Sabres are one of the 10.

 

[TehDoak]

Yep. I think what it comes down to is this: If Terry was getting in Kevyn's way of making roster moves, we would have heard SOMETHING from SOMEONE by now. I think "all" Terry wants is to be consulted.

Kevyn: "I'm thinking about trading for Greenway." *explains how it helps*
Terry: OK.

Kevyn: "I'm thinking about trading Savoie for McLeod" *explains logic*
Terry: OK.

Totally agreed that Kevyn is over-valuing what's on the roster and still starry-eyed about the ceilings of each of the young kids.......and still ignoring things like building an actual team instead of a collection of talent.

Obviously we don't know, but other GMs have spoken about it being an ongoing, daily conversation. I doubt its nearly as cut and dry as this is. My guess is there are a lot of texts and phone calls during the day about different situations.

 

[Djp]

I wonder if Adams and the front office are being paralyzed because they just don't know what to do. Not in a solely incompetent way. As if they expected this to work and don't yet know how to fix it.

Think back two years ago. Thompson, Dahlin, Mittelstadt are all developing and breaking out. All the kids are coming up and playing well. Eichel gets traded, Tuch is amazing, Krebs looks good, vibes are good. Eventually UPL starts playing like a legit starter. You end up a point out of the playoffs.

Think about the assessment they made:
- Top 2 centers They have three who are working out (Thompson, Cozens, Mittelstadt).
- Top 2 defenseman Dahlin is amazing, Power is coming, and Samuelsson looks good.
- Goaltending UPL looks good and Levi played amazing down the stretch
- Youth movement Best young roster in hockey and best prospects in hockey

How did that go so wrong? I wonder if they just don't know what to do. That should've yielded a lot better results than what we are seeing. I can imagine Adams, Fortin, etc sitting around wondering how they fix this.

the 22/23 season just missing the playoffs. Early in the season they had s big injury bug that hit the D early resulting in an 8 game losing streak. The had a top 10 PP.

You have promising prospects

23/24 the PP is bottom 5 and they had top 6F injuries in a stretch that hurt their record and they continually played hurt.

This year the PP is still bottom 5. They have lost points from
(1) blown 3rd leads and not getting 2 pts
(2) tied 3rd p and come away with 0 pts
(3) 1 g 3rd deficit and 0-X on PP.

You have a top 10 PP and a fee other small things , they likely are in 3rd/WC in playoff race.

I look at it differently. Its not about restrictions. Adams is just a mouth piece. Pegula is making the decisions so restrictions? It depends how you look at Adams job.

No GM has kept their job after missing the playoffs for 4 years in a row and here we are in year 5. So is Adams even really a GM?

not if they are going through a rebuild.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I mean, in terms of the hockey side of things, EVERY team is limited to how much they can spend. It's the cap.

But with the Sabres how did you come to the conclusion that Pegula has put a limitation on how much can be spent? I know fans have all discussed about the Sabres not spending to the cap under Adams, but it feels like that was done because we do have a young team, and outside the "core" guys that Adams has seemingly said he's moving forward with (Power, Samuelsson, Cozens, Tage, Dahlin), he's handled the roster as such. The Mittelstadt trade I would point to being an issue of Adams feeling that Cozens would've taken the role Mittelstadt was occupying. He more than likely felt Kulich would eventually take the spot Cozens was utilizing at the time.

I haven't seen anything, or heard anything that really puts the spotlight on the move not being done BECAUSE Adams couldn't spend more than a certain amount internally from orders by ownership. I can understand, from a fan perspective, why things might appear to be that way, as the team really needed upgrades, and with cap space still available, fans could think there's a limitation, even with Adams saying he needed that money later, which fits in the thinking of Adams self-running a cap for roster management purposes.

But I haven't seen anything that points towards Pegula putting that cap on him. I think Pegula does put a serious weight on large value contracts when those discussions come up, which is understandable.

I'm not sure what to tell you after the last couple years of the same thing, other than...

The last time Pegula willingly added to spending in any meaningful way was when he was desperate to make Eichel happy and signed Hall.

Been a big load of nothing since then.

If you want to believe that’s a GM decision I don’t know what to tell you. The GM thinks having less hockey minds on staff and a payroll gap on the ice is the best way to win? And the owner who isn’t preventing spending and wants to win keeps him employed in spite of that failing to literal last place?

Sure Jan.

How does Pegula choose him as GM with no experience, and keep him after a span of five years of little cap spending, while the teams falls flat in the standings again, WITHOUT Pegula being involved or approving of how KA is running things? At this point, if not already, logic dictates that Pegula is limiting KA's options.

 

[OkimLom]

I'm not sure what to tell you after the last couple years of the same thing, other than...


How does Pegula choose him as GM with no experience, and keep him after a span of five years of little cap spending, while the teams falls flat in the standings again, WITHOUT Pegula being involved or approving of how KA is running things? At this point, if not already, logic dictates that Pegula is limiting KA's options.

Or, hear me out, and I know this seems so out there; this is just how Kevyn manages his cap and his timeline is different than the fans, and Pegula has agreed to it as he trusts Kevyn. If Pegula is in it for the long haul, what's the rush in Pegula's eyes for creating what he has been convinced of, will be a long term stable organization.

 

[Jim Bob]

Or, hear me out, and I know this seems so out there; this is just how Kevyn manages his cap and his timeline is different than the fans, and Pegula has agreed to it as he trusts Kevyn. If Pegula is in it for the long haul, what's the rush in Pegula's eyes for creating what he has been convinced of, will be a long term stable organization.

Kevyn plans to build a contender by 2030-31....

 

[jc17]

Same. Hate posting anything longer than a few sentences or a tweet when using my phone.

I could care less about the above. If you think I’m trying to rehash that draft or Quinn vs Rossi, I’m not. My focus is on what could make the team better now.

To be honest, I couldn’t care less about Quinn right now. What to do with Cozens is what I’m thinking about. I don’t want to trade him for Rossi for one simple reason. I don’t want more kids. I want more vets. If I’m trading Cozens, it should be in a package for a vet.



Benson is not a top 6 winger at this point of his career. Thats just the reality of the situation no matter how much you tear down Cozens/Quinn.

Ignoring quinn, the draft part is still relevant for me because it highlights some intrinsic skillsets.

I thought cozens had hockey IQ issues before we even drafted him, so it's not simply a matter of hating on guys we pick (and I'll acknowledge this is my opinion, not universal truth). IMO it's his decision making that continues to ail him, and while the roster might not be giving him much help, he's sort of shown the same flaws for years which makes me think it's more than a roster issue.

A guy like Rossi isn't perfect. Smaller than cozens, not as fast, probably not as aggressive, but I think there's a chance that he could have a more positive impact on this team, because I think he's smarter. Again, his intelligence is a reputation preceding his draft. I think it could be an inherent strength which could be useful on this team. Of course, being on a better team with better linemates will help hide his weaknesses and highlight strengths, I just don't think thats the only explanation of the difference between the two players.

 

[Tatanka]

Or, hear me out, and I know this seems so out there; this is just how Kevyn manages his cap and his timeline is different than the fans, and Pegula has agreed to it as he trusts Kevyn. If Pegula is in it for the long haul, what's the rush in Pegula's eyes for creating what he has been convinced of, will be a long term stable organization.

There is logic in your point. However the key issue is that team built totally with internal youth and expected growth has never worked. It is bad planning from the start. TP may very well believe it is a good idea but objectively it is not. That is the problem. The emperor is named and there is no one who he trusts that will tell him that. And thus they are where they are.

 

[OkimLom]

There is logic in your point. However the key issue is that team built totally with internal youth and expected growth has never worked. It is bad planning from the start. TP may very well believe it is a good idea but objectively it is not. That is the problem. The emperor is named and there is no one who he trusts that will tell him that. And thus they are where they are.

I'm not saying it's a smart idea or supporting said decision.