Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Clever Thread Title Needed

[Andy99]

Bad year to trade Marino...down season so we won’t get a haul...I’m keeping the kid...

I love Rust but I’d take a first for him this summer and a really good prospect and run...Rust will garner that return...regardless of our postseason outcome, we’re likely going to have cut bait with a player who’s good to build up the prospect pool...Zucker, Petts or Matheson isn’t going to return that...we’ll be lucky in this time of down profits to get rid of their cap hit entirely....

 

[Peat]

Of course, I agree. I’d go further and say I’d trade anyone on the roster if the return made it seem meaningless not to. Including Sid/Geno.
Then the question always becomes “what return would that then be for X?”

If I baulk at the thought of trading Marino (or Rust) it is then due to thinking that if I were most any other team, I would not give up enough that as a Penguins fan, I’d consider it enough of a home run.

Problem with trading Sid/Geno - assuming we still think we're a good team in two months - is you're not replacing what they bring to the table without a similar overpayment elsewhere, unless the overpayment is a 1 for 1 trade for a superior player in their position and how often do you see that? Somebody could make us a great offer of players at other positions, of futures, or offer two guys who are together worth more than the guy, and it still doesn't probably make sense.

That's why they and a few others are on my no list.

 

[Tender Rip]

Problem with trading Sid/Geno - assuming we still think we're a good team in two months - is you're not replacing what they bring to the table without a similar overpayment elsewhere

Doesn't change your principle. It just gets unrealistic pretty quickly.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Sid and Geno will never be traded. Discussing them in such a setting is a waste of time.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Penguins should not do anything dramatic with their roster unless they absolutely implode in the playoffs.

The goal for next year should be to enter the season with something like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
McCann-Malkin-Kapanen
FA/young player-Carter-ERod/young player
Young player-Blueger-Tanev

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Matheson-Ruhwedel

 

[Andy99]

The Penguins should not do anything dramatic with their roster unless they absolutely implode in the playoffs.

The goal for next year should be to enter the season with something like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
McCann-Malkin-Kapanen
FA/young player-Carter-ERod/young player
Young player-Blueger-Tanev

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Matheson-Ruhwedel

If we’re getting rid of Zucker’s salary and ZAR’s raise and replacing them with ELCs, then we should be able to afford Ceci resigning, which we absolutely should do

 

[Rakell67]

Seattle can only take:

Petterson - A bland middle pairing D
Zucker - bye Felicia
ZAR - a 4th liner
Carter - 1 year from retiring
DeSmith - An average backup goalie

Literally none of that will break us. Infact I bet the Pens get better relative to other teams given what other teams will lose.

Possibly Tanev as well.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

If we’re getting rid of Zucker’s salary and ZAR’s raise and replacing them with ELCs, then we should be able to afford Ceci resigning, which we absolutely should do

Blueger raise. Plus Marino's cap hit kicks in.

The Penguins are at $80 million right now without any departures via the expansion draft and without any RFAs like Blueger signed.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If we’re getting rid of Zucker’s salary and ZAR’s raise and replacing them with ELCs, then we should be able to afford Ceci resigning, which we absolutely should do

Nah, not a chance. Re-signing Ceci is mostly unnecessary with who else they have on defense and they're really screwing with their future cap structure by signing Ceci for what he'll cost.

Even if it works next year, it definitely won't work after 2022.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm also coming around to the idea that the Penguins need to keep both Matheson and Pettersson, because I think both provide things the defense needs to be successful. I don't think POJ is really an ideal replacement for either Matheson or Pettersson, he's a hybrid between the two IMO.

The catch with Matheson is that he needs to be the guy that anchors the bottom pair, considering what he's paid. He needs to be able to make a suitable pair with guys on the skill level as Ruhwedel (who I think is a good complement for him), Riikola or Friedman.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Nah, not a chance. Re-signing Ceci is mostly unnecessary with who else they have on defense and they're really screwing with their future cap structure by signing Ceci for what he'll cost.

Even if it works next year, it definitely won't work after 2022.

Yup. Even if you're a little under the cap next year, that's fine, because there are a ton of expiring contracts you're going to have to cover in 2022.

Malkin, Letang and Rust are going to be UFAs in 2022. So is Carter, but he'll probably retire. Kapanen and McCann are RFAs. And Jarry will be going into the final year of his contract. Oh, and the salary cap isn't budging much while the league recoups the losses from the pandemic.

 

[Peat]

Nah, not a chance. Re-signing Ceci is mostly unnecessary with who else they have on defense and they're really screwing with their future cap structure by signing Ceci for what he'll cost.

Even if it works next year, it definitely won't work after 2022.

You can do it post 22. Just trade a LD for futures, which you probably/hopefully want to do in that scenario to make room for POJ anyway. Address forward cap allocations from within the forwards. I'm not saying it's the greatest idea, but it can be done. Maybe you have to abandon it in 23, but is what it is.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think you've gotta hope that Petts gets taken in the ED. Throw them a sweetener if you have to, imo. Zucker's a much easier move with this being the last year of his deal, ZAR's a 4th liner, Carter's too important to the 3rd line, DeSmith is whatever, and Tanev is a risk with his term and potentially bum shoulder.

POJ needs a spot next season, and if you don't think he's ready, Friedman is a fine replacement for the bottom pair. Marino's been a mess this season, and the thought of spending ~$8.5 million on our bottom pairing sounds awful when you've got two guys who struggled pretty badly for long periods this season.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think you've gotta hope that Petts gets taken in the ED. Throw them a sweetener if you have to, imo. Zucker's a much easier move with this being the last year of his deal, ZAR's a 4th liner, Carter's too important to the 3rd line, DeSmith is whatever, and Tanev is a risk with his term and potentially bum shoulder.

POJ needs a spot next season, and if you don't think he's ready, Friedman is a fine replacement for the bottom pair. Marino's been a mess this season, and the thought of spending ~$8.5 million on our bottom pairing sounds awful when you've got two guys who struggled pretty badly for long periods this season.

One problem: Zucker's signed through '22-'23. Two more years after this season.

I wouldn't add sweetener to anyone. Let Seattle pick who they pick.

I also really don't get the pile-on with Marino. He's not as good as last year, but he's hardly been a mess. It's called a sophomore slump for a reason.

 

[Peat]

I think you've gotta hope that Petts gets taken in the ED. Throw them a sweetener if you have to, imo. Zucker's a much easier move with this being the last year of his deal, ZAR's a 4th liner, Carter's too important to the 3rd line, DeSmith is whatever, and Tanev is a risk with his term and potentially bum shoulder.

POJ needs a spot next season, and if you don't think he's ready, Friedman is a fine replacement for the bottom pair. Marino's been a mess this season, and the thought of spending ~$8.5 million on our bottom pairing sounds awful when you've got two guys who struggled pretty badly for long periods this season.

POJ and Friedman having a joust to replace Pettersson isn't a bad place to be if he goes, but I don't see that being a situation to hasten his leaving for. POJ spending another season in the AHL is okay by me.

If Pettersson stays, we don't know how the ice time is getting allocated. Matheson/Ceci only started really getting more minutes than Pettersson/Marino when they started getting unsustainably hot with production. I wouldn't bet on it happening again. I'm not sure I'd even bet on it continuing through the playoffs. Pettersson's only really struggled badly when coming back from injury. Rest of it, he's been the guy he was last season, and the last before that too. I know not everyone loves that player but, even at 4m with two other good LD, that's not something we've got to get rid of. If he's taken - cool. If he's not taken - probably cool.

 

[Gurglesons]

One problem: Zucker's signed through '22-'23. Two more years after this season.

I wouldn't add sweetener to anyone. Let Seattle pick who they pick.

I also really don't get the pile-on with Marino. He's not as good as last year, but he's hardly been a mess. It's called a sophomore slump for a reason.

Marino was analytically bottom of the barrel at one point in the year.

That being said his WAR is 3rd best on the team.

Having to keep Zucker won't be a problem until after next year.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Marino was analytically bottom of the barrel at one point in the year.

That being said his WAR is 3rd best on the team.

Having to keep Zucker won't be a problem until after next year.

Yep, ups and downs. Certainly not enough for me to cut bait with him though.

It's not essential to dispose of Zucker in the summer, but it'd sure open up a lot of cap space we could put to better use.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

POJ and Friedman having a joust to replace Pettersson isn't a bad place to be if he goes, but I don't see that being a situation to hasten his leaving for. POJ spending another season in the AHL is okay by me.

If Pettersson stays, we don't know how the ice time is getting allocated. Matheson/Ceci only started really getting more minutes than Pettersson/Marino when they started getting unsustainably hot with production. I wouldn't bet on it happening again. I'm not sure I'd even bet on it continuing through the playoffs. Pettersson's only really struggled badly when coming back from injury. Rest of it, he's been the guy he was last season, and the last before that too. I know not everyone loves that player but, even at 4m with two other good LD, that's not something we've got to get rid of. If he's taken - cool. If he's not taken - probably cool.

I just think it's a perfect storm regarding Petts. We need a replacement for the middle-6 when we move Zucker, and Hyman or Coleman would be great fits on either the 2nd or 3rd lines, imo. POJ needs a spot sooner than later, so keeping Petts another year just means we have to deal him next off-season where the cap situation will be the same around the league. If you don't think POJ is ready or you want more seasoning for him in the AHL getting big minutes, Friedman or some FA probably fills the bottom pairing role adequately at a fraction of the price.

Dumo's not going anywhere. Matheson's definitely not going anywhere with his term. Matheson to RD and Petts moving up inspires about zero confidence in me. Marino moving up with Matheson is another situation I'm not super stoked to see.

I don't know. I see two moves staring this team right in the face; Zucker out, Petts out. Two guys on inflated contracts that either don't fit, or are redundant. If one's taken by the Kraken, perfect--ideally that's Petts, because again, Zucker's probably a much easier move with him being in his final year. I don't think either brings back much of value in a trade, to be honest. I could see a Perron-Hagelin deal for Zucker that'd see us losing if you look at each player's stat history, but ends up being a better fit. If not, I'm sure you could move him to recoup some futures and save a bunch of cap.

My fantasy land off-season sees Petts taken by Seattle, Zucker dealt for a 2nd+prospect, Riikola dumped, Ceci re-signed at a reasonable rate ($3 million AAV, 3yrs), ZAR walks, Hyman signed.

Jake 6 - Sid 8.7 - Rust 3.5
Kap 3.2 - Geno 9.5 - Hyman 5
McCann 2.9 -Carter 2.6 -Tanev 3.5
Zoho .79 -TB 2 - Gaudreau 1.25/E-Rod 1.25

Dumo 4.1 -Letang 7.25
Matheson 4.9 -Ceci 3
POJ .86 /Friedman .725 /FA-Marino 4.4

Jarry 3.5
DeSmith 1.25

Quickdirty math - 73.79 million with POJ, 73.655 with Friedman. Either way, a bunch of room to adjust salary accordingly if you want or bring in another FA to keep Tanev on the 4th line.

But you can't spend ~$8.5 million on the bottom pairing. Not with similar options available for a fraction of the cost, and areas needing addressed elsewhere.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You can do it post 22. Just trade a LD for futures, which you probably/hopefully want to do in that scenario to make room for POJ anyway. Address forward cap allocations from within the forwards. I'm not saying it's the greatest idea, but it can be done. Maybe you have to abandon it in 23, but is what it is.

I think you'll have to trade one of Matheson or Pettersson regardless after next year due to the raises for guys like Rust, Kapanen and McCann. Every penny you give to Ceci is a penny less you can give more important players.

 

[Darren McCord]

The Penguins should not do anything dramatic with their roster unless they absolutely implode in the playoffs.

The goal for next year should be to enter the season with something like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
McCann-Malkin-Kapanen
FA/young player-Carter-ERod/young player
Young player-Blueger-Tanev

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Matheson-Ruhwedel

I hope the keep Ceci even if it means moving petts to keep him.

dumo - letang
Math - Ceci
Poj/riikola - Marino

 

[Gurglesons]

Yep, ups and downs. Certainly not enough for me to cut bait with him though.

It's not essential to dispose of Zucker in the summer, but it'd sure open up a lot of cap space we could put to better use.

Has anyone said let's cut bait with Marino? I think the idea was more if someone overpays for him do you trade him to sign Ceci?

The one thing I'll say about Zucker is he is cost controlled and likely can't be worse than he is this year. I dunno, I feel like this year is a perfect storm with him, but I won't be upset if he's moved for minimal pieces.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I hope the keep Ceci even if it means moving petts to keep him.

dumo - letang
Math - Ceci
Poj/riikola - Marino

Absolutely. Matheson and Ceci works. You have to take the chance Ceci turns into a pumpkin, imo. Obviously don't hand the guy a blank check or anything, but within reason, he should be kept around.

Petts can be replaced by POJ (to develop our best blueline prospect) or Friedman (a guy who has looked really solid in the handful of games he's been in--granted, small sample size). I'd also argue you could get similar results with Riikola in his spot, but Sully won't play him so he's gotta be dumped too.

 

[Peat]

I think you'll have to trade one of Matheson or Pettersson regardless after next year due to the raises for guys like Rust, Kapanen and McCann. Every penny you give to Ceci is a penny less you can give more important players.

There's a bunch of money that can be saved in the forwards at that point but I'm not also not sold on giving all three of those players if it comes to it either.

@Big Friggin Dummy - You make a lot of good points, just I'm going to be fine if Pettersson's here instead. I'm okay with spending 8.5m on the bottom pairing if the rest of the roster looks good, and since you just posted a decent looking roster that can afford to do that...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

There's a bunch of money that can be saved in the forwards at that point but I'm not also not sold on giving all three of those players if it comes to it either.

@Big Friggin Dummy - You make a lot of good points, just I'm going to be fine if Pettersson's here instead. I'm okay with spending 8.5m on the bottom pairing if the rest of the roster looks good, and since you just posted a decent looking roster that can afford to do that...

Sure, but spending ~$8.5 million on your bottom pairing while both guys struggled mightily the year before for long stretches, and you have multiple options at 3LD who can do the job just fine for a fraction of the cost? That's a different story.

And hell, I'll take a bunch of extra cap into the season next year if we can (my estimates re: salary were on the lower side, so even with that lineup it won't be $8 million or so free realistically). I'm still dying on the hill that we have one more real good shot at a Cup before things start to get all warped by age/injury/cap stuff. Too many guys are getting up in age, and next off-season we're almost definitely losing Rust and Carter. So if you go into next season with that lineup and a bunch of cap, and something comes up mid-season for you to grab a big impact player at the deadline, you've got plenty of room to do so. Ideally it'd be a more long-term guy. /shrug

 

[Headshot77]

I know this is gonna be sacrilegious here, but hear me out.

Malkin for Eichel. Buffalo gets to still have a superstar name they can market. We get a DECADE younger. Malkin hasn't topped 25 goals in three frequently-injured seasons. Eichel needs neck surgery. So, lots of unknowns with both.