Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Clever Thread Title Needed

[AuroraBorealis]

I don’t think he should be paid minimum. But I also don’t think he should make $2.5 million either. He should probably make around $1.5-$1.75 million (like any average 4th liner gets these days). The Penguins also shouldn’t be the team that pays him that...he also isn’t as good as Blueger and should not be paid the same as him either. That’s what the entire argument was

Would say 1.75 to 2 mil is fair relative to how much he helps us. Injuries are a big concern with him too, which detracts value.
There's too much focus on scoring here. This team scores enough. We're tied for 2nd in the league. It's an elite offensive team, and I see no reason it won't be in the top 10 again next year.
What we need is guys like ZAR for damage control. We're 12th defensively. How many goals against can we point at this year and say "that one was on ZAR"? Precious few.

Blueger is better, yes. He should make 3+.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Eh. The team scores plenty of goals. Til it doesn't.

Major power outage last two playoffs/play-ins.

I know that isn't necessarily part of the whole ZAR debate (though I'd argue he sure doesn't help much there -- 17GP, 0G, 2A in post season play). But it seems like we sometimes are content calling the offensive engine well-oiled when in fact it has misfired badly last couple seasons when we needed it.

 

[Gurglesons]

Eh. The team scores plenty of goals. Til it doesn't.

Major power outage last two playoffs/play-ins.

I know that isn't necessarily part of the whole ZAR debate (though I'd argue he sure doesn't help much there -- 17GP, 0G, 2A in post season play). But it seems like we sometimes are content calling the offensive engine well-oiled when in fact it has misfired badly last couple seasons when we needed it.

I feel like as soon as they don’t produce on a couple powerplays the last few years everything falls apart.

I don’t think it is a coincidence that the Bruins and Caps shutouts came largely when there was no special teams.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I feel like as soon as they don’t produce on a couple powerplays the last few years everything falls apart.

I don’t think it is a coincidence that the Bruins and Caps shutouts came largely when there was no special teams.

Nailed it, buddy. Couldn't agree more. They go 0-fer on a few then crawl into a hole and die.

Reirden will fix it.

 

[Peat]

I don’t think he should be paid minimum. But I also don’t think he should make $2.5 million either. He should probably make around $1.5-$1.75 million (like any average 4th liner gets these days). The Penguins also shouldn’t be the team that pays him that...he also isn’t as good as Blueger and should not be paid the same as him either. That’s what the entire argument was

ZAR's results and ice time are a lot more than average 4th liner.

I could see both signing one year deals at little bit of a reduced rate that then allows them to be UFA next offseason. And it would also allow the Pens to sign them to extensions after the season has started and I think by then the Pens will have a better handle on the contracts for Letang and Malkin and where the cap may be for 2022-2023.

Like they did with Pettersson.

If we give them one year to UFA I'd expect them to exercise it, not sign new contracts. We know where we are with the cap too - flat.

I'd also add that the Pettersson comparison has issues, in that Pettersson had no arbitration rights and they do. There's no reduced rates for ZAR and Blueger unless they want them, and if they want them we might as well attach term to them.

 

[MrBrightside]

Eh. The team scores plenty of goals. Til it doesn't.

Major power outage last two playoffs/play-ins.

I know that isn't necessarily part of the whole ZAR debate (though I'd argue he sure doesn't help much there -- 17GP, 0G, 2A in post season play). But it seems like we sometimes are content calling the offensive engine well-oiled when in fact it has misfired badly last couple seasons when we needed it.

I mean, they lead the NHL in goals scored despite playing 16 of 52 games against the Isles and Bruins. That's no small accomplishment.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

A tweet said they just added it. I can go back 1 year.

McCann 2 yrs 3.2 mil and Riikola 1 yr 860k. A 2 year term for Riikola was 1.1 mil

So pretty close.

I like the guy, but I'm still baffled by the Riikola cap hit.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean, they lead the NHL in goals scored despite playing 16 of 52 games against the Isles and Bruins. That's no small accomplishment.

Without Malkin and Kap for much of the year, too.

I'm not hand-waving away what they've done. I'm just saying that many of us said the last two years the the offense was just fine then when games got tight and extremely important in the post season it went bye byes.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I like the guy, but I'm still baffled by the Riikola cap hit.

Cap hit in a vacuum was ok but considering the depth chart it was weird.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think if the Pens end up clearing some money in the expansion draft/other means and don’t end up spending it on outside upgrades— I wouldn’t mind using it to bring ZAR back.

I’d rather him than picking up a guy like Sceviour who really showed no signs of being this bad. The devil you know, right?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Cap hit in a vacuum was ok but considering the depth chart it was weird.

Considering Sully didn't want to play the guy in the first place, it's even weirder.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Nailed it, buddy. Couldn't agree more. They go 0-fer on a few then crawl into a hole and die.

Reirden will fix it.

Well a big difference from last year is the offensive contributions from the blue line. Reirden deserves major credit there. They pushed for it since day 1.

 

[Daeni10]

I think 1.7 Million for ZAR is pretty fair and he could easily get 2 if he hit the market. Very good defensive player in pretty much every metric that is heavily relied on in tough situations while being good for around 25 points. He is a very good 4th liner that is closer to the 3rd line than he is to being a #13 or #14. If you compare him to guys like the Islanders 4th line, Bellemare, Nichushkin, Copp (before his breakout this year) they are all paid a lot more. If you can get him for 1.7, you do that in my opinion.

 

[LRS87]

5 years 2.75 m per for Bluegar.

 

[Peat]

Considering Sully didn't want to play the guy in the first place, it's even weirder.

I still think people are too quick to turn Sully not playing him into Sully not wanting to play him. Riikola has had really stinky luck in terms of getting games here two years in a row and more than that, I don't think he'd have come back here if Sully didn't like him at all.

I think it's the same with Ruh. The guy doesn't play much but they clearly like him or they wouldn't give him such security as a 7D. Riikola probably frustrates them a little more for whatever reason, but I still think ultimately Sully likes him as a 7D. My guess is Friedman spells the end of his road here though.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Riikola and Ruhwedel were signed to make sure the Pens would expose a player with the proper games played and contract status for the expansion draft.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I am fine with signing Blueger to a 3.2 million over 5 years deal.

He has secured his life and we have a center locked up long term in the bottom 6 that we know does well.

I know he has mentioned he wants a bigger role and I definitely understand but money like that talks I think.

ZAR for me honestly depends on the playoffs but 1.5 ish million for a year.

 

[Peat]

Well a big difference from last year is the offensive contributions from the blue line. Reirden deserves major credit there. They pushed for it since day 1.

I'd kinda want to see the improvements continue through the playoffs before getting too excited but right now the things it was hoped Reirden would do - better offensive contribution from the blue line, better Letang, better PP - have happened. So far it looks like a smart move.

 

[McGroarty2]

To expand on a post I made last night, I don't conceptually have an issue with giving Blueger a fat contract in a vacuum, but the issue is the Penguins really need to stop overpaying depth players by a little bit of money because that money adds up. I'd be much more okay with overpaying Blueger if you also got rid of Tanev and ZAR and ran with something like Zohorna-Blueger-Lafferty, but I'm definitely not interested in giving Blueger a sizable deal if he's still going to be playing with Tanev and/or ZAR. Especially if they're re-signing ZAR.

I'd absolutely peak at the McCann contract, which I already think is generous towards Blueger because I think McCann is better than Blueger. If Blueger wants significantly more than that, I'm probably looking at Tanev's contract to get out of to pay Blueger. Or I'd just explore Blueger's trade market instead.

I’d be ok with

Zohorna Blueger Angello
xLafferty

as 10-13 forwards but there is something about Gaudreau that has me wanting to see more of him. I hope he is re-signed.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I'd kinda want to see the improvements continue through the playoffs before getting too excited but right now the things it was hoped Reirden would do - better offensive contribution from the blue line, better Letang, better PP - have happened. So far it looks like a smart move.

Not to mention significant improvement from Ceci and Matheson compared to past teams.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

It is true that this is how contracts are usually determined, with the contract year being the most important one. It's unusual to see a fan having that opinion, but it's not an unheard of thing to say.


ZAR as a winger is equivalently good to Blueger as a center. Blueger is the better player (centers typically are), but not so much that they belong on different lines.


Fine, if we're going to pretend that defense doesn't matter, let's use simple offensive counting stats:

Blueger's career so far: 53 points in 136 games; 0.39 points per game.
ZAR's career so far: 50 points in 157 games; 0.32 points per game.

Wow, a 0.07 points per game discrepancy. That sure justifies an assertion that their ceilings are two lines apart from one another.

Based on those offensive stats, ZAR has already demonstrated that he is at worst a 3rd liner.


I'm not necessarily a huge fan of those numbers, but I like the ratio between them for the 'After season starts' line. ZAR should be making ~3/4 of what Blueger makes.

You either overrate ZAR or underrate Blueger.

Blue is a solid 3c who is (currently) on pace for 44 points.
ZAR plays 14 minutes per game as is on pace for 25 points.

Blue will make close to $4m on his next contract. 40+ point centers who are defensively responsible don't grow on trees.
On the flip side, if Hextall gives ZAR more than $2m/season then there's going to be a shit storm from the media and fans.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Blueger is absolutely not a $4 million player for the Penguins, so if he wants that kind of money, they better trade him.

Don't get married to good depth guys. If they want to much money, move them out when their value is high. Don't become the new Chicago Blackhawks.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Blueger is absolutely not a $4 million player for the Penguins, so if he wants that kind of money, they better trade him.

Don't get married to good depth guys. If they want to much money, move them out when their value is high. Don't become the new Chicago Blackhawks.

Yeah it's just a good general rule of thumb.

Nearly nothing else will slam the window shut faster.

 

[Gurglesons]

Blueger is absolutely not a $4 million player for the Penguins, so if he wants that kind of money, they better trade him.

Don't get married to good depth guys. If they want to much money, move them out when their value is high. Don't become the new Chicago Blackhawks.

I'd argue becoming the new Chicago Blackhawks is trading pieces like Blueger because of contract concerns. As I've said I'd rather have Blueger than Rust if we are trading one for assets.

I also don't see how Teddy can argue for 4 million.

 

[Peat]

Thirded. Blueger has run very hot this season and I'd hate to be paying him like he's a guaranteed every season 40 point guy.

I think the point about their whole careers looking pretty similar between ZAR and Blueger is a pretty good one.