Phoenix LXXX: Is there another way out?

[madhi19]

And if he chooses to stay in Glendale, it wont be because he hates Canada or Québec! But because he loves the Coyotes too much!

You were going great but you had to finish with that! lolll

 

[powerstuck]

People still think that Bettman hates Canada? I thought that the Thrashers to Winnipeg had killed that.

It will take more than Atlanta to Winnipeg.

It will take a team to Quebec, Toronto 2, Montreal 2, Toronto 3, Saskatoon, Regina and probably Yellowknife or Whitehorse to get on the right way of Canada liking Bettman.

 

[Nordskull]

No it won't. Glendale knows that the nhl doesn't want to go to QC. You still don't seem to understand the difference between Canada and the USA in the eyes of the nhl.

You know that Glendale knows what the NHL thinks?

So its over.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

The Coyotes have never made money in their entire existence. Either because their attendance hasn't been good enough or their ticket prices have been too low, or - as has been the case recently - their attendance AND their ticket prices are too low. You can try to paint them as a team that's beloved in its community, but there is much greater evidence that most of their community doesn't really care one way or the other about them.

But we weren't talking about profitability, we were talking about attendance.

If Glendale citizens cared more about the team than about their police and fire services, attendance wouldn't be so poor.

Profitability and attendance are two different things (while one has a strong connection with the other).

There may well be communities in which people like their sports team so much that they are fine with forking over their tax dollars for it. There may even be communities that like their sports team so much that they don't mind their police and fire departments being underfunded as long as the team gets public money. It's a real stretch to believe that Glendale is one of those communities.

Why?

The CoG isn't going to turn cop cars and firetrucks into scrap metal should the Coyotes stay. MOD

Are we just going to forget my original point of people attributing opinions to those they have never met?

 

[Acesolid]

You were going great but you had to finish with that! lolll

I'm serious! If you look at many big companies, what often hurts their profitability is when the boss takes a special liking to a certain particular project or product, and stops making cold, rational decisions when it comes to it.

Maybe Bettman will show me I am wrong in the next few weeks. But how else then by the word ''irrational'' would you describe a league owning a team for 4, going on 5 years in a row at a huge loss?

Sure, they have obligations to a City that built an hockey arena. But surely by now enough is enough? Is there any rational reason for the NHL putting their arm further in the meat grinder that is the Coyotes? No, I believe there is not. Maybe they can recoup one more year of losses in the end by upgrading the purchase price, but that's hardly a good excuse for one more lame duck season, isn't it? And that'd be robbing the owners of more cash in ''relocation fees''!

Anyways, we'll see...

 

[madhi19]

.... not buyin that HF. I think they'd "prefer" to have US option's having recently moved one team north of the Border, NBC contract etc. But I dont think its any kind of over-riding factor, far more positive than negative. Indeed QC with its beyond wealthy & influential owner, the additional revenue streams his media outlets will provide likely far surpassing any hit they'd take visa-vie NBC. Good for Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, all the Canadian & Great Lakes teams really, Boston, NY/NJ/LI etc. Clearly though their preference has been to hold the Fort in Glendale, but only provided the City itself steps up to the plate, & as we know theyve' shutdown the free all you can eat buffet.

What peoples don't get is that the NHL did not move the team for the past three years has nothing to do with liking this landing market or that other landing market. They had a good thing going on for a long time Glendale picked the tab twice and this shortened season reduced their loss. And the Jamison deal well that was too juicy to pass on really. Now the NHL is facing another reality the gravy train is gone. For sure we gonna see how far they really want to stay there or not.

 

[RR]

http://www.nextsportstar.com/index.php/jimmy-devellanos-thoughts-on-the-coyotes-situation/

Devellano: “I Would Be Shocked If They Weren’t in Phoenixâ€

This might be more about Detroit not wanting to go back to the West than it's about Coyotes staying or going.

 

[Killion]

The one question that needs to be answered is which owners support a Quebec City team and which dont?

I would assume most with the exception of Dallas & LA/Anaheim/Colorado who would like to retain a natural SW rival. There might possibly be some serious blowback from Montreal with the Molsons connections to Desmarais & Bell, concerns about everything from RDS to "pouring rights" & market coverage, media & cable, wireless & other core business activities. Damn upstart that Peladeau. Pffshaw. Drove up the price on the Habs but good when bidding against the brudder Molsons.... Jeremy Jacobs, reputedly the most influential owner has a deal with the new building up there through Delaware North his catering company. Like Quebecers' need some US based caterer serving up overcooked roast beef on a hoagie bun smothered in HP Sauce? Of course not. I'd eat before or after, mebbe even brown bag it. But getting Jacobs on-side, shrewd move.

 

[nelina]

.... not buyin that HF. I think they'd "prefer" to have US option's having recently moved one team north of the Border, NBC contract etc. But I dont think its any kind of over-riding factor, far more positive than negative. Indeed QC with its beyond wealthy & influential owner, the additional revenue streams his media outlets will provide likely far surpassing any hit they'd take visa-vie NBC. Good for Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, all the Canadian & Great Lakes teams really, Boston, NY/NJ/LI etc. Clearly though their preference has been to hold the Fort in Glendale, but only provided the City itself steps up to the plate, & as we know theyve' shutdown the free all you can eat buffet.

That's right. However, I think GB underestimate the beneficial mediatic colateral effects of having a team back in Quebec City. Especially the extra exposure the NHL and the sport of hockey would get from a strong ''to not say wild'' rivalry with the habs. Even more true in todays multimedia environment. Sorry folks if my english not as good as Killion !

 

[powerstuck]

That's right. However, I think GB underestimate the beneficial mediatic colateral effects of having a team back in Quebec City. Especially the extra exposure the NHL and the sport of hockey would get from a strong ''to not say wild'' rivalry with the habs. Even more true in todays multimedia environment. Sorry folks if my english not as good as Killion !

And if they are willing to get an extra outdoor game, Habs vs Nordiques would be the most epic, in the best winter conditions (-25C, windchill, snowstorm )that would be watched in the whole effin world on TV and by 200 000 people live on place with an average ticket price of 400 to 500$.

 

[Nordskull]

That's right. However, I think GB underestimate the beneficial mediatic colateral effects of having a team back in Quebec City. Especially the extra exposure the NHL and the sport of hockey would get from a strong ''to not say wild'' rivalry with the habs. Even more true in todays multimedia environment. Sorry folks if my english not as good as Killion !

Hey bienvenue! ;-)

 

[CrazyMonkey1208]

The one question that needs to be answered is which owners support a Quebec City team and which don'-t?

Very curious to see how Montreal will react, both ownership and fans..

 

[Mightygoose]

Very curious to see how Montreal will react, both ownership and fans..

Would say fans would be estatic to have Nords to hate again.

As for the Molsons/Bell goes, if the league decides to pull the plug on the Yotes and move them to QC. Their opinion wouldn't change the outcome. They only have 1 vote.

 

[madhi19]

I'm serious! If you look at many big companies, what often hurts their profitability is when the boss takes a special liking to a certain particular project or product, and stops making cold, rational decisions when it comes to it.

Maybe Bettman will show me I am wrong in the next few weeks. But how else then by the word ''irrational'' would you describe a league owning a team for 4, going on 5 years in a row at a huge loss?

Sure, they have obligations to a City that built an hockey arena. But surely by now enough is enough? Is there any rational reason for the NHL putting their arm further in the meat grinder that is the Coyotes? No, I believe there is not. Maybe they can recoup one more year of losses in the end by upgrading the purchase price, but that's hardly a good excuse for one more lame duck season, isn't it? And that'd be robbing the owners of more cash in ''relocation fees''!

Anyways, we'll see...

I doubt this is the case like I said the NHL had good reasons not to cut and run until last January. If anything I think Gary never really cared enough. Otherwise he would have gone to the BoG and sold them on offering a bargain price to a local owner. It was always the problem that we can kick back one more year because somebody else is paying for it.

 

[powerstuck]

Very curious to see how Montreal will react, both ownership and fans..

I can tell you that ownership will always play a double story. Back in 2010 or 2011 when the city was starting the project of the new arena and was looking for a private party manager and investments only two parties were finalists

Those parties were Quebecor and Bell Media. Tho, Bell Media was not able to qualify because they were unable to warranty they would do everything to bring an NHL team to the city. (Being owners of another team which is Montreal).

At that moment, people were pointing at Bell Media and saying that their involvement was to block a future return of the Nordiques. Bell denied such claims and at that point Geoff Molson made public comments that the Montreal Canadians organisation is for a return of the Nordiques and the old rivalry. If I remember well, he even stated it could only be a positive thing for both teams and their fans.

Obviously, I really doubt those comments were honest.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

MOD

Anyway, you have a better feel for the Coyote situation than me so... IF the team moves, hopefully it will end in QC.

 

[nelina]

Hey bienvenue! ;-)

Salut QC! En direct de l'Anse-St-Jean!

 

[madhi19]

I can tell you that ownership will always play a double story. Back in 2010 or 2011 when the city was starting the project of the new arena and was looking for a private party manager and investments only two parties were finalists

Those parties were Quebecor and Bell Media. Tho, Bell Media was not able to qualify because they were unable to warranty they would do everything to bring an NHL team to the city. (Being owners of another team which is Montreal).

At that moment, people were pointing at Bell Media and saying that their involvement was to block a future return of the Nordiques. Bell denied such claims and at that point Geoff Molson made public comments that the Montreal Canadians organisation is for a return of the Nordiques and the old rivalry. If I remember well, he even stated it could only be a positive thing for both teams and their fans.

Obviously, I really doubt those comments were honest.

BCE only own 15% of the Habs. That really not enough for them to have a big say on what going on with the Canadiens. Otherwise the league would have forced them to sell those parts when BCE bought a big chunk of MLSE. Sure what Geoff Molson said was PR to calm a crapstorm before it start. Let put the tinfoil hat behind BCE might have wanted to screw with Quebecor but they did not do it on behalf of the Habs. And you know what the moment Geoff Molson spoke up they backed the hell away.

 

[CrazyMonkey1208]

I can tell you that ownership will always play a double story. Back in 2010 or 2011 when the city was starting the project of the new arena and was looking for a private party manager and investments only two parties were finalists

Those parties were Quebecor and Bell Media. Tho, Bell Media was not able to qualify because they were unable to warranty they would do everything to bring an NHL team to the city. (Being owners of another team which is Montreal).

At that moment, people were pointing at Bell Media and saying that their involvement was to block a future return of the Nordiques. Bell denied such claims and at that point Geoff Molson made public comments that the Montreal Canadians organisation is for a return of the Nordiques and the old rivalry. If I remember well, he even stated it could only be a positive thing for both teams and their fans.

Obviously, I really doubt those comments were honest.

Exactly why I'm curious, I wonder which face will prevail.

 

[Ugmo]

But we weren't talking about profitability, we were talking about attendance.

Profitability and attendance are two different things (while one has a strong connection with the other).

I disagree... there is a very strong correlation, especially in the NHL. They were still losing a lot of money even when they had better attendance, which most likely means their ticket prices weren't high enough. If there was a massive groundswell of support in the Phoenix area, they would have both better attendance and higher ticket prices. Indeed, one of their owners went bankrupt because the team simply wasn't viable.

Now you could argue, and I'd agree with you, that they might well be viable if so many mistakes hadn't been right from the beginning. But the reality on the ground is that they hemorrhage money because not enough people care to show up and pay ticket prices comparable to those of healthy NHL teams.

Why?

The CoG isn't going to turn cop cars and firetrucks into scrap metal should the Coyotes stay.

Now this is a strawman if ever there was one. No, the city isn't going to dissolve its fire and police departments. But it is going to have trouble funding them. We've already seen that, when the mayor and city council had to refuse a request for additional fire department funding even though the fire chief explained that this would increase the time that citizens have to wait for FD services.

Are we just going to forget my original point of people attributing opinions to those they have never met?

I'm going to guess people in Glendale don't like being poked in the eye by sharp objects too.... can I infer that, or is it presumptuous of me, because I've never been there? The facts are that the Coyotes have poor attendance and even worse local TV ratings. I have nothing against the Coyotes or the people of Glendale, but you cannot ignore all the evidence and continue to imply that there is sufficient support in the continue to justify keeping the team there through public subsidies, when the evidence suggests that there is near total apathy in Glendale as regards the Coyotes.

 

[thom]

I was a kid growing up but I remember the Molson Boycot that was threatened in the late 70'-s if Quebec did not get a team.Could something like this happen to Molson or Bell?

 

[Killion]

This might be more about Detroit not wanting to go back to the West than it's about Coyotes staying or going.

I dunno RR. Ive seen a lot of Wings fans opining that they dont care if there back in the West, others adamant that no way should they be forced back after years of requesting they moved East. No question its possible though, this theory that the Big Picture of Conference Alignment is in fact the over-riding raison d'etre to why the leagues letting Phoenix play out to the nth degree. Just park the team, pray for a local sale whilst simultaneously hoping Seattle, Portland, Houston or wherever in the west comes on-line or on-board. We just dont know. Hell, Tulsa's got a beautiful relatively new NHL sized arena. Absoultely anythings possible with these Wingnuts.

Sorry folks if my english not as good as Killion !

I think a lot of people here actually think my english sucks, that in fact Im challenged in both of Canadas' official languages so dont worry about it.

... so, bienvenue a hfboards genial froid nelina. Cabaret Le Folichon huh? Ohh La La... www.youtube.com/watch?v=DShhHqRpHgQ

 

[Oscar Acosta]

I was a kid growing up but I remember the Molson Boycot that was threatened in the late 70'-s if Quebec did not get a team.Could something like this happen to Molson or Bell?

I don't exactly think it's in their hands.

 

[Fugu]

Well, I don't know who is HedgeyeDJ as I am new guest on this board but affirmation that loonie gets stronger because interest rates are expected to go up is true

Some of us have moved on to newer theories that aren't based on the old interest rate parity and related goods models. The sheer volume of foreign currency transactions today, much of it financial assets, makes the older models obsolete. The actual movements are more akin to bets and zero sum games (perhaps mathematically related to Brownian Motion-based models) than the old paradigm.

http://www.nextsportstar.com/index.php/jimmy-devellanos-thoughts-on-the-coyotes-situation/

This might be more about Detroit not wanting to go back to the West than it's about Coyotes staying or going.

I wouldn't read that into it, RR. Devellano is very good about opening his mouth and letting out things that the NHL would rather no one discuss. He usually is fairly well-informed on which the wind is blowing at least.

 

[madhi19]

I was a kid growing up but I remember the Molson Boycot that was threatened in the late 70'-s if Quebec did not get a team.Could something like this happen to Molson or Bell?

The brewery does not own the team anymore and BCE only own 15% of the Habs. Unless something get leaked that both Montreal and Toronto voted no because of BCE I don't see any backlash. But that not happening business wise both Toronto and Montreal will profit greatly from having somebody else to pay into RS.