Phoenix LXXX: Is there another way out?

[halligan10]

Comment from Mike Smith.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coy...smith-wants-return-team-stable-contender.html

“The biggest part about me signing back here will be: Is the ownership group coming in, is this going to be a place that free agents are going to want to come and play and are they going to spend the money to make this a better team on an every-year basis?†Smith said. “I think that’s the most intriguing piece of the puzzle.â€

So not only is Mike Smith waiting for new ownership, he wants a new owner that's going to open their wallet to make this team better. That might be difficult for any owner of this team when they are coming in with so little cash and a bunch of loans that need to be paid back one day.

PKP has plenty of money for Mike but i will be suprised if he wants to be a Nords! Thats IF the coyotes move of course.

 

[Puckschmuck*]

Well, May has come and gone. I would say that if we were to go by the Winnipeg scenario as to how things should have played out for Quebec City, the team needed to be relocated by no later than May 31st. So I'm thinking that come hell or high water, the team is staying in Phoenix, unfortunately. Sorry QC, I guess you'll have to wait for expansion, whenever that is.

 

[CrazyMonkey1208]

I'd give it another week before ruling out relocation. It certainly takes a step backwards in my eyes, but I still don't see a deal in phx

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'd give it another week before ruling out relocation. It certainly takes a step backwards in my eyes, but I still don't see a deal in phx

I agree. There's not a hard deadline here. I'd give it till mid-June.

 

[Puckschmuck*]

I'm not saying it's a hard deadline, but I'm thinking it would have played out similar to the Winnipeg scenario. But certainly if this next week comes and goes, it's pretty clear that relocation isn't going to happen THIS year anyways.

 

[JimAnchower]

I agree. There's not a hard deadline here. I'd give it till mid-June.

I agree as well. If the Cup Finals start with no announcement, then I'd say the team is staying in Phoenix.

 

[LeafShark]

I'm starting to get the feel that the NHL is willing to commit to Phoenix to the point where it would receive no money whatsoever from the CoG, and to the point of paying rent to the new arena manager. Add this to the weakening talent base, we could start seeing losses not thought feasible. How does 50M per year in losses sound? But hey... Quebec's not ready!

Maybe the NHL would be willing to go back to US Airways Center just to stay in Phoenix. I think there would be far less losses than in Glendale while keeping market presence. This only works if Glendale hires an arena manager before the NHL makes a decision. They're walking the razor's edge. Would US Airways Center be willing to accept the Coyotes as a tenant?

I can't believe the NHL entered the pot with 2-7 off-suit against the CoG's pocket pair. Now here comes the flop...

 

[mmajeski06]

Phoenix LXXXI: There's Always Money in the Banana Stand

This must happen.

Appropriate for this situation and timely with Season 4 just coming out.

 

[JimAnchower]

Maybe the NHL would be willing to go back to US Airways Center just to stay in Phoenix. I think there would be far less losses than in Glendale while keeping market presence. This only works if Glendale hires an arena manager before the NHL makes a decision. They're walking the razor's edge. Would US Airways Center be willing to accept the Coyotes as a tenant?

As they say, there's a price for everything. It would likely be at a price point that would make a deal very unlikely. It would have to be more than what the owners would get from concerts and other events that could be held on those dates. In addition, there would be all the seating issues and other problems that existed when the team left US Airways Center. On top of that, there might be scheduling problems with already booked events and Suns games. It is theoretically possible, but not practical.

 

[CasualFan]

Well, May has come and gone. I would say that if we were to go by the Winnipeg scenario as to how things should have played out for Quebec City, the team needed to be relocated by no later than May 31st. So I'm thinking that come hell or high water, the team is staying in Phoenix, unfortunately.

Maybe it would be more prudent to see what happens after Tuesday's session when the Glendale Council is briefed on the NHL offer(s) vs RFP responses, then provides direction to the city staff on how to proceed. Or maybe it's better to misinterpret minor nuances and then spastically overreact. Whichever.

 

[CrazyMonkey1208]

I agree as well. If the Cup Finals start with no announcement, then I'd say the team is staying in Phoenix.

I'm on the same page. I believe Winnipeg was announced between the conference finals and STC, so I doubt its too late.

 

[Whileee]

Maybe it would be more prudent to see what happens after Tuesday's session when the Glendale Council is briefed on the NHL offer(s) vs RFP responses, then provides direction to the city staff on how to proceed. Or maybe it's better to misinterpret minor nuances and then spastically overreact. Whichever.

Yes, both sides of this are still poised in positions of uncertainty. The COG doesn't know what alternatives it has to manage the Jobing.com arena, and the NHL doesn't know if it will have a situation conducive to a local sale or owning the Coyotes as a Jobing.com tenant for another year. Much of this could well be clarified on Tuesday.

 

[Mungman]

Maybe it would be more prudent to see what happens after Tuesday's session when the Glendale Council is briefed on the NHL offer(s) vs RFP responses, then provides direction to the city staff on how to proceed. Or maybe it's better to misinterpret minor nuances and then spastically overreact. Whichever.

PHOENIX LXXXI: Spastically Overreact

 

[CasualFan]

Yes, both sides of this are still poised in positions of uncertainty. The COG doesn't know what alternatives it has to manage the Jobing.com arena, and the NHL doesn't know if it will have a situation conducive to a local sale or owning the Coyotes as a Jobing.com tenant for another year. Much of this could well be clarified on Tuesday.

I think the Team Gosbee summit, continuation of the RFP process, and subsequent adoption of the tentative budget and financial policies eliminated the situation conducive to a local sale part (assuming the NHL wont suddenly change gears, abandon the Fortress angle, and sell the team for $45MM or so)

Bowers and staff will have had 72hrs to review the RFP responses, which generally are not complicated agreements. The staff will compare those responses against the NHL offer (assuming the NHL advanced a proposal for the league to persist ownership and operation of the team in Glendale for 13-14 Season) and then make a recommendation. The council majority will provide a direction on how to proceed on the arena. There will probably be some form of press release or leak not too long after that direction is provided.

For whatever it's worth: I don't think the NHL has a valid relo offer for the 13-14 Season. I do think a majority of the Council would revive the AMUL and allow the NHL to operate the franchise at the arena for the 13-14 Season at AMF $6MM even though it is likely far less fiscally prudent than the agreements contemplated in the RFP responses. But, as always, let's remember that last year at this time, I thought the league would simply fold the franchise instead of eating losses for the 12-13 Season while they tried to pound the square JIG peg into the round no entity is going to fund this franchise in Glendale hole.

 

[Whileee]

I think the Team Gosbee summit, continuation of the RFP process, and subsequent adoption of the tentative budget and financial policies eliminated the situation conducive to a local sale part (assuming the NHL wont suddenly change gears, abandon the Fortress angle, and sell the team for $45MM or so)

Bowers and staff will have had 72hrs to review the RFP responses, which generally are not complicated agreements. The staff will compare those responses against the NHL offer (assuming the NHL advanced a proposal for the league to persist ownership and operation of the team in Glendale for 13-14 Season) and then make a recommendation. The council majority will provide a direction on how to proceed on the arena. There will probably be some form of press release or leak not too long after that direction is provided.

For whatever it's worth: I don't think the NHL has a valid relo offer for the 13-14 Season. I do think a majority of the Council would revive the AMUL and allow the NHL to operate the franchise at the arena for the 13-14 Season at AMF $6MM even though it is likely far less fiscally prudent than the agreements contemplated in the RFP responses. But, as always, let's remember that last year at this time, I thought the league would simply fold the franchise instead of eating losses for the 12-13 Season while they tried to pound the square JIG peg into the round no entity is going to fund this franchise in Glendale hole.

I think you're probably correct. I am giving the Gosbee gambit the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Killion]

Or maybe it's better to misinterpret minor nuances and then spastically overreact. Whichever.

... ya why not. Just freak right out. Like in 28 Days Later. Yes indeedy.

I do think a majority of the Council would revive the AMUL and allow the NHL to operate the franchise at the arena for the 13-14 Season at AMF $6MM even though it is likely far less fiscally prudent than the agreements contemplated in the RFP responses.

Its certainly beginning to look like it, assuming the NHL's put forth that
suggestion at all as you note.... 28 Weeks Later... 28 Months Later...
still freakin, cure didnt take....

 

[sipowicz]

I'm not saying it's a hard deadline, but I'm thinking it would have played out similar to the Winnipeg scenario. But certainly if this next week comes and goes, it's pretty clear that relocation isn't going to happen THIS year anyways.

So much for a team owner meeting the NHL's criteria, financial wherewithal, etc. blah, blah, blah...as long as someone with a pulse is willing to purchase the Coyotes and keep them in Glendale they have Bettman and the NHL's blessing....

 

[Donwood]

I think the Team Gosbee summit, continuation of the RFP process, and subsequent adoption of the tentative budget and financial policies eliminated the situation conducive to a local sale part (assuming the NHL wont suddenly change gears, abandon the Fortress angle, and sell the team for $45MM or so)

Bowers and staff will have had 72hrs to review the RFP responses, which generally are not complicated agreements. The staff will compare those responses against the NHL offer (assuming the NHL advanced a proposal for the league to persist ownership and operation of the team in Glendale for 13-14 Season) and then make a recommendation. The council majority will provide a direction on how to proceed on the arena. There will probably be some form of press release or leak not too long after that direction is provided.

For whatever it's worth: I don't think the NHL has a valid relo offer for the 13-14 Season. I do think a majority of the Council would revive the AMUL and allow the NHL to operate the franchise at the arena for the 13-14 Season at AMF $6MM even though it is likely far less fiscally prudent than the agreements contemplated in the RFP responses. But, as always, let's remember that last year at this time, I thought the league would simply fold the franchise instead of eating losses for the 12-13 Season while they tried to pound the square JIG peg into the round no entity is going to fund this franchise in Glendale hole.

I rarely disagree with you but I do here on a few points.

1. I'm sure Quebec and the NHL have a deal in place
2. This Glendale council, I don't believe is dumb enough to turn their backs on a Arena management company with a proven track record.
3. That the NHL BoG want another year of this.

 

[LeafShark]

Glendale will do what it thinks it's best for it's citizens. They have decided to open up bids for arena management. They can either decide to go with the best bid, and the group with the best bid will want to maximize their revenue, or they can decide to give NHL the arena. In Houston, Les Alexander decided to kick out their AHL team for additional concert revenue. This can make sense, since an AHL team really shouldn't be playing in a major league venue. However, it seems that he isn't even interested in an NHL team, otherwise, he'd be first on Bettman's list. Concerts and other area events are starting to out-compete the NHL in the south. If it really is true that marginal additional concert revenue is preferable to an NHL team, then the NHL simply has to leave Phoenix. Maybe the NHL was afraid of this when they had control of the arena, and decided to book as few events as possible for this very reason. Even though they'd make a short term profit, eventually the CoG would realize this and kick the Coyotes out. The NHL's south expansion strategy seemed to hinge on local TV revenues making up the difference in profitability, something that arena managers don't see. Either that, or they control the arenas themselves, taking the middleman out of the equation.

I really can't see how the NHL can compete in the south, given that there are more entertainment dates and opportunities due to the warmer climate. So why would the CoG allow the NHL to retain control, when the NHL won't allow other events to compete with them? It would be completely counter-intuitive. Sure they'll see 41 dates, but they'll only see 41 dates, which takes out ANY advantage of having a primary tenant in the first place. So logically, if there is no owner, the CoG will sell off to the best bid. Since the NHL can't compete with concerts and other events, especially with no owner, they would be on their way out. Again... logically. Maybe if there are NO bids to run the arena, you give Arena rights to the NHL.

So why hasn't the NHL left already? Why are they dragging their feet. Well I suppose one reason would be that we still don't know the bids that were submitted. If the CoG is comfortable with a particular group, the NHL would not hesitate to leave, and they wouldn't even feel that much backlash, as the arena that Glendale built was still going to be used to its potential, and that they didn't waste taxpayer money on a building just to house the NHL. I'm sure the new mayor and council would rather blame the past administration for its mistakes than the NHL itself, politically. We're waiting for two specific dates. 1. The bids for the arena are made public. 2. A decision on who will manage the arena. Nothing else really matters. It looks like the NHL is going to wait out the CoG until this happens. If they have to, they'll add on an additional 2 weeks break "because of the lockout". So the end of May turns into the end of June. "Because of the relocation to Winnipeg, Quebec will know what to expect, and will be able to avoid some shortfalls that Winnipeg had. Therefore I, Gary Bettman think that Quebec City will be ready for the NHL next season, especially since we're starting the season so late because of the lockout incurred during the 2012-2013 season." Gary Bettman's going to grasp as much straw as he can. For the draft, it doesn't really matter which city is represented, since it appears that the same GM will be used.


Gosbee has 0 chance of owning the team. No way. The owners would be furious. He's just being used as a pawn right now. Every piece of news pertaining to Gosbee is filler. The offer is a complete and utter joke.

Most of this speculation, relies a little too much on logic.

Edit: If the NHL has to, they'll start Quebec on the road for the first month. I think there's no depths that the NHL is not willing to sink to.

 

[madhi19]

... ya why not. Just freak right out. Like in 28 Days Later. Yes indeedy.



Its certainly beginning to look like it, assuming the NHL's put forth that
suggestion at all as you note.... 28 Weeks Later... 28 Months Later...
still freakin, cure didnt take....

I don't think the NHL did put a back up offer for staying in Glendale for another year while still running the arena for two reason.

First it undermine RSE bid by taking the threat of relocation off the table. Glendale could take that offer kick that can down the road another year in the hope that a new better deal for them come up.

Second Glendale is not interested in the NHL running their arena anymore they did such a crappy job that nobody want them to do it again. They know that the city is better off giving the management to a third party who would actually work on booking the place than the NHL who will do the bare minimum to pocket most of the AMF.

 

[Fenway]

I'm on the same page. I believe Winnipeg was announced between the conference finals and STC, so I doubt its too late.

Sale was announced May 31st and approved on June 21.

Winnipeg had to sell 13,000 season tickets to make it happen and they did that in less than an hour.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I love you guys! Almost 1000 posts in less than 3 days. You sick puppies. What a bunch of nuts...

 

[Donwood]

Until the schedule is released and it can't with the Olympics and NHL participation not confirmed is it too late.

Mid June may not be desirable for Quebec but owned by a huge communications company I have no doubt they'll be fine.

The Gosbee deal is a last ditch pie in the sky offer. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the NHL leaked the deal/ Look! We're standing on our heads to make a last ditch attempt. As soon as Glendale indicates they'll hire an outside arena manager for the 6 million, it's over in Glendale. Waiting another year is useless and very expensive for the NHL. And if Glendale hires a outside manager they'll see what a REAL manager can do so there is another reason delaying another year just flush's 30 million+ down the drain.

 

[Evil Doctor]

For whatever it's worth: I don't think the NHL has a valid relo offer for the 13-14 Season.

I don't think we can assume that, with the Illuminati-like secrecy that surrounds the NHL we can't really know. It's more than likely they have a mountain of relocation offers, not only from the usual suspects but also from places we haven't even considered.

The reason for not pursuing them I believe has more to do with ego more than anything else. Much like the silver age comic book super-villain, it doesn't occur to Bettman that there are easier ways to accomplish ones goals...

 

[Major4Boarding]

For anyone interested in some light reading over the weekend

http://www.glendaleaz.com/Clerk/documents/060113PropertyTaxLevySchedules.pdf