Phoenix LXXX: Is there another way out?

[Brodie]

yeah, Detroit and Columbus will happily move back west so Quebec can get their team! I can just see Columbus' owner now "welp, we just sold a bunch of season ticket packages on the back of being in the same division as Crosby, Ovechkin and Rick Nash but sure, we'll go die out west, happily!"

 

[Tawnos]

Explain how this would work? Because I'm not following you...

Why would an expansion team be worth more then an existing franchise? It wouldn't

Realignment problems are not serious, Winnipeg had to play in the east for 2 years, Quebec would likely play in the Midwest until the next realignment and Colorado stay in the pacific.

Relo fee for the Jets 2 years ago was $60m and that gets split among the 29 other teams. Expansion fees were $80m 15 years ago and that was before cost certainty, in a league with far less than the $3B revenue stream it has now, and in markets less desperate than QC.

 

[Donwood]

yeah, Detroit and Columbus will happily move back west so Quebec can get their team! I can just see Columbus' owner now "welp, we just sold a bunch of season ticket packages on the back of being in the same division as Crosby, Ovechkin and Rick Nash but sure, we'll go die out west, happily!"

Again that won't happen, Quebec plays in the west (Midwest) until the next realignment. Colorado stays in the pacific

 

[Donwood]

Relo fee for the Jets 2 years ago was $60m and that gets split among the 29 other teams. Expansion fees were $80m 15 years ago and that was before cost certainty, in a league with far less than the $3B revenue stream it has now, and in markets less desperate than QC.

Whatever Quebec would pay for an expansion team, they'd pay for an existing franchise.

 

[Tawnos]

Whatever Quebec would pay for an expansion team, they'd pay for an existing franchise.

They'd pay more for an expansion if an existing franchise isn't available, is my point.

 

[MotorMaster]

Just curious, are expansion teams entitled to a 1st overall pick? When is Connor McDavid being drafted?

 

[Tawnos]

Again that won't happen, Quebec plays in the west (Midwest) until the next realignment. Colorado stays in the pacific

Defeating the purpose of the entire realignment.

 

[Ugmo]

Relo fee for the Jets 2 years ago was $60m and that gets split among the 29 other teams. Expansion fees were $80m 15 years ago and that was before cost certainty, in a league with far less than the $3B revenue stream it has now, and in markets less desperate than QC.

Ah, okay. I guess we talked abou this earlier in the latest Chris Hansen thread. That makes sense if the choices are a) staying in Glendale somehow and b) relocating to QC. Sure, it makes sense to stick it out if you have that option and then collect an expansion fee in QC. The problem is that it appears the Coyotes are at the end of the line in Glendale and QC is the most plausible relocation option.

I guess QC would be "willing" to buy an expansion franchise if there were no other options.

 

[Tawnos]

Ah, okay. I guess we talked abou this earlier in the latest Chris Hansen thread. That makes sense if the choices are a) staying in Glendale somehow and b) relocating to QC. Sure, it makes sense to stick it out if you have that option and then collect an expansion fee in QC. The problem is that it appears the Coyotes are at the end of the line in Glendale and QC is the most plausible relocation option.

I guess QC would be "willing" to buy an expansion franchise if there were no other options.

Right, I wasn't totally clear on that. The relocation vs expansion fee issue is why the NHL might prefer to own the team for one more season, in a temporary home, while they fully explore ALL options for a permanent home, including the temporary one. If the NHL determines that QC is legitimately the best option for relocation for a franchise that is actually on the market to move (as opposed the shadow game we've been witnessing), then so be it. But due diligence hasn't really been done here, and it's not hard to make the case that it's in the league's long-term best interest to make sure it is.

 

[Donwood]

Defeating the purpose of the entire realignment.

Why? The number of teams in each conference is the same as if Phoenix stayed put, Colorado isn't inconvinced, Every team visits every other city so trips for western teams can stop in Quebec, Quebec would be the only team with extra travel which I'm sure they'd except.

 

[MNNumbers]

Defeating the purpose of the entire realignment.

I respectfully disagree, Tawnos. The purpose of the realignment was to gain local TV revenue for the franchises in the locations in which they were when it was settled. That's why Minnesota is happy to be in a division with other CTZ teams, and the same applies to Dallas. Winnipeg was actually less of an issue. It just looked weird with a Central Canada team playing in the Southeast. The east/west part was not as weird as the north/south part.

In this case, Quebec (if the team goes there) would only be 1 Time Zone away from most of its division-mates. And, the North/South discrepancy would not exist.

Just my opinion.....

 

[aqib]

There is a video on the Chris Hansen thread where he basically said that an NHL team would have to have its own ownership group and they would have to work out a lease with Hansen. Just cross Seattle off the list.

 

[Tawnos]

Let's not turn this into a realignment thread guys. I have lots of thoughts, but I don't think this is the right place for them. Sorry I brought it up.

 

[MNNumbers]

Let's not turn this into a realignment thread guys. I have lots of thoughts, but I don't think this is the right place for them. Sorry I brought it up.

Thanks Tawnos. This is good advice. My only on-topic comment about alignment is that I think $$ are a far greater piece of what happens to the Coyotes than is alignment.

If PHX does move to QUE, then there might be another alignment thread??? If the mods allow it.

 

[Major4Boarding]

So... anyway, to hopefully remove any misunderstandings, misinterpretations, or generally anything else, I am posting Ms. Schurhammer's opening statement from last nite's meeting... in it's entirety. Generally this is frowned upon (length/bandwidth/etc), however it will serve as a reference point and a fall-back resource for those either incapable of viewing the meeting video (work, etc) or too lazy to view the video.

Schurhammer (39:24 Mark) "Tonite I am presenting the Tentative Budget for next Fiscal Year 2014. Council approval of the Tentative Budgets will set the maximum level of expenditures for Fiscal Year 2014. The purpose is to establish a maximum amount of revenue and expenditures. Adjustments from this point forward can be made, as long as the maximum amounts remain unchanged or are decreased. Council approval of the Tentative Budget includes adoption of City Council's financial policies.

These financial policies are included in the Tentative Budget document that was provided to Council last week... and is included as part of this Agenda item that was posted publicly. With the adoption of the Tentative Budget resolution, Council will then give notice of the date for public hearings and adoption of the '14 Budget. All of which are scheduled for June 11th. The public notice also gives notice of the date for adoption of the 2014 Property Tax levy, which will occur on June 25th. After tonite's evening meeting, the public notices will be published in the Glendale Star on May 30th and June 6th in compliance with State Statutes.

At the next voting meeting on June 11th, Council will conduct a public hearing on the Property Tax levy, as well as the "Truth in Taxation" hearing. Council will conduct a seperate public hearing on the 2014 Budget and then will convene a Special Meeting to adopt the final budget with the resolution. The FY 2014 recommended operating and capital budget provide a multi-year path to improve financial stability for the Organization, as discussed with Council during the public Budget workshops.

On the operating side, the '14 Budget provides for gradual rebuilding of the General Fund fund balance, continued evaluation of departmental operations, to increase effectiveness and efficiency with reductions in ongoing expenditures, it also provides additional funding for among other things, employer contributions for both medical insurance and retirement plans for employees...

additional pay related expenses for represented employees as well as additional funding for electricty to operate City buildings and water for City Parks and right of way. There will be no rate increases for residents for water, sewer, sanitation, or landfill services and as discussed earlier, there will be continuation of current operating hours for the City's two aquatics facilities as well as the City's library's".

(summary review)

http://glendale-az.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=1836

 

[mesamonster]

That's just it, we know there is urgency to get the deal done, why would they not either meet right away or at least present a proposal to each side, This meeting was planned for a few days why did RSE not have some written plans to begin discussions.

Thats an easy one! there will be no deal! GB`s acting contract with RSE runs through the end of the week! So they are expected to feign interest etc. In reality they are just playing out the string and waiting for GB`s IOU in the mail!

 

[Donwood]

Getting myself back on topic, I wonder if part if the delay is the NHL trying to get a few more bucks from Quebec? The rumours on Seattle etc have been over the top. Maybe NHL spin on other possibilities in Glendale and elsewhere all designed to make PKP throw a few more million in the pot.

 

[Whileee]

So... anyway, to hopefully remove any misunderstandings, misinterpretations, or generally anything else, I am posting Ms. Schurhammer's opening statement from last nite's meeting... in it's entirety.

So, adding a penny or a million to the AMF (from $6 million) will require a spending cut somewhere else. I suppose they could fiddle with it here or there, but I can't imagine that Gosbee can expect much more than that.

That would mean that if Gosbee wants anything more than that, it has to be money generated outside of the COG per se. I suppose that they could try to go back to a CFD model, but that would require other businesses to fork over money to Gosbee. I suppose they might be able to do a bit with this, but it's hard to see how they could do anything substantial. Besides, it's really too late to contemplate starting something like that.

Maybe they could allow Gosbee to keep ticket surcharges, but that would be negligible, and not any different than Gosbee just raising ticket prices to increase revenue, which he could do in any case.

Naming rights? Perhaps, I suppose.

I think it really comes down to a question as to whether Gosbee is willing to run the franchise with less than 50% of the subsidy that has been offered to any of the other failed ownership bids. If so, it is a major coup for the COG, and would show that they should have played hardball with the NHL a lot earlier.

The other possibility might be that they don't get any suitable bids from the arena management RFP. If they are in dire straits (i.e. no bids, or only very expensive ones), then I suppose that they might be compelled to go back and slash parts of their budget to free up money for arena management.

 

[JimAnchower]

Paul Giblin , PaulGiblinAriz 2m
#NHL execs left no paperwork with #Glendale officials after yesterday's #Coyotes meetings. Also, no further meetings are scheduled yet.

If you don't leave paperwork and you don't schedule more meetings, what was the purpose of the meeting? To gauge how committed they are to $6 million? To get them to cancel the RFP?

 

[Tawnos]

Getting myself back on topic, I wonder if part if the delay is the NHL trying to get a few more bucks from Quebec? The rumours on Seattle etc have been over the top. Maybe NHL spin on other possibilities in Glendale and elsewhere all designed to make PKP throw a few more million in the pot.

Getting an expansion sized relo fee for the Coyotes would probably put an end to this immediately.

 

[GordonGraham]

Too bad we will probably never know all the amount in the envolopes the COG will open friday

How many bidders do you think they will have

 

[Glacial]

If you don't leave paperwork and you don't schedule more meetings, what was the purpose of the meeting? To gauge how committed they are to $6 million? To get them to cancel the RFP?

That's the $6 million dollar question.

 

[Whileee]

If you don't leave paperwork and you don't schedule more meetings, what was the purpose of the meeting? To gauge how committed they are to $6 million? To get them to cancel the RFP?

I think it was to see what the ceiling is for the AMF. I expect that they heard that it was $6 million with a bit of "wiggle room". I also expect that when Sherwood saw Bettman looking at his watch and checking his messages, he tried to keep the NHL interested by suggesting various other "revenue streams" that they could discuss.

My guess is that the NHL is going to leave this ball in the COG's court until after the RFP bids are reviewed, hoping that the COG will not find anything suitable and come back to the NHL with something.

I think it's a vague hope. I wonder if Bettman might have left the groups with a deadline for agreeing on a lease before he left.

 

[Brodie]

There is a video on the Chris Hansen thread where he basically said that an NHL team would have to have its own ownership group and they would have to work out a lease with Hansen. Just cross Seattle off the list.

that is not new information?

 

[CrazyMonkey1208]

Don't really see the big deal about having 1 more team in the east than in the west. It'll all even out nicely when Seattle gets a franchise anyway, which I'm confident that they will. Am I missing something?