Rumor: Philadelphia wanted a 1st rounder, or specific prospect to take Joseph from Ottawa

[pth2]

That tough. First off there are only 10 teams that can take even that meager cap hit. Several of them already have a lot tied up in retention including slots. Buffalo and Detroit, in their division and fighting for a playoff spot with the sens are not likely to help out at all. Teams with their eyes on the playoffs likely want to save cap space. And some, like Columbus, if looking past this year will have to really up their spending next year.

The hard truth is I do not see a great candidate for anyone to take on even that meager a retention for 3 years. And if one like Arizona did, no reason to think it would be cheap as they know Ottawa is over a barrel.

Of course, there is also what I'd call "indirect retention", by sending back a lesser, cheaper, player.

For example, Montreal could give Ottawa Kovacevic for Brannstrom, saving Ottawa about 1.2M while maintaining an equivalent lineup (in terms of players at various positions). (I'm not suggesting this is likely, since Montreal has Hutson coming up, and no one needs two 5'10 offensive D).

Not quite the same thing, but I wonder if something like Jake Evans for Joseph and a pick (2nd?) might be possible, saving Ottawa roughly 1.3M. This only makes sense if Montreal thinks Joseph could be reclaimed into a more useful player, though, and if they have a plan B for 4th line C.

 

[ottawah]

Hypothetically let's say a team did agree to retain $1.475m X3 in exchange for Colorado's (or another teams) 2024 1st (via Ottawa). In that case what would Ottawa pay Colorado to make up the value for Colorado, since Joseph (@$1.475m) on his own isn't worth a 1st?

In other words, fill in the blank:

Joseph ($2.95m X3) + _________ for COL 2024 1st (flipped to 3rd team for 50% retention)

Grieg or Kleven, far more than Ottawa will give.

Personally I do not see a choice, its pretty much Joseph to the minors, Pinto on a one year deal and be so pushed against the cap pray for no injuries ......

I get just giving away Kubilak or Brannstrom makes more sense, but Dorion is likely loath to give away the two "centerpeices" of recent and costly trades .... There are just too few trading partners for these deals. With 70% of the league looking to shed bad contracts just to be around cap compliant or a couple million under to be able to deal with injuries or trades, its a buyers market. And buyers have choices on their terms.

 

[kmwtrucks]

Sharks have 2 retention spots already blocked long term, doubt they wnat to use the 3rd on that.

Im talking about a out right trade with no retention. I don't see a 3rd team retention as a viable option, and

 

[bert]

Is this the same Matheiu Joseph from the Bolts? He looked prime for a breakout....what happened?

Had an injury plagued year and struggled to score. But he is still a useful player and much better than whats being projected by all the non sens fans who are clearly hoping they get screwed over dumping him.

 

[DKH]

Joseph 3 more years at $2.95 M they should get atleast a first

 

[SundherDome]

Find another way, that's simply to much.

Start by waiving Joseph that's 1.1 right there, it's not enough but it gets you probably half way there.

You guys still have the number for Lupul's doctor?

 

[KevinRedkey]

Find another way, that's simply to much.

Start by waiving Joseph that's 1.1 right there, it's not enough but it gets you probably half way there.

But you also have to replace him in the lineup. The max savings is 0.400 from the Sens POV once you factor that in.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

But you also have to replace him in the lineup. The max savings is 0.400 from the Sens POV once you factor that in.

Shane Pinto is the replacement

 

[KevinRedkey]

Shane Pinto is the replacement

I see what you're saying. I was looking at it from a different perspective as I have both Pinto and Joseph on the NHL squad unless one gets traded.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

He had a tough season with injuries last year but the sens are in a cap crunch due to so much dead cap on the books. I would like to keep him around, he is a useful player.

Yeah I don't think that Joseph is broken or doomed to fade into obscurity. I think with decent linemates he can show that he's a legitimate 3rd line, PK speedster.

He had a down year for sure, but he still has all the tools. I would have liked to keep him around for another season to see what he can do.

Guess we will see what happens! Branstrom might be the player to go if the Sens can't find a taker for Joseph. Adding a first to move him is insane, and the Senators need all the high picks they can get to replenish the farm after trading the previous two first rounders.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Delete - just gonna make a proposal instead.

 

[ponder]

$2.95 mil for 3 years, for a 4th liner ... teams are definitely gonna want to be compensated well to eat that. Joseph isn't terrible, but he's nothing special either, a solid but unexceptional 4th liner on most teams IMO, or a 3rd liner liner in a pinch, if you're really strapped for 3rd line talent. Average skill level for a bottom 6er, size/physicality/toughness is average for an NHLer and below average for a bottom 6er, he's a serviceable NHLer but doesn't really stand out, you can find Joseph level players for ~$1 mil in free agency.

While a 1st rounder is a lot to pay, I don't see Ottawa getting out of that deal for much less - nobody is taking that on for a 2nd rounder IMO. If he was signed 1-2 years, maybe you could get lucky and someone takes him for a 2nd, but signed for 3 years, no. Cap space is at a real premium in this league, very few teams have significant space, and the teams that do know they've got a rare commodity and will charge a premium.

Shit signing by Dorion - they got Joseph at the trade deadline, he played really well for 11 games at the end of the season, and they paid him basically off of those 11 games, vs. the whole rest of his career to that point. Not surprisingly, he regressed to his normal level this year, and the contract is instantly crap.

 

[SnS]

Nic Deslauriers - 1.750 x 3yrs
For
M.Joseph - 2.950 x 3yrs

Philly would be eating 4.300 in actual dollars over the term.

Sens add a pick, but I don't necessarily think it has to be a 1st in this case. Might be an easier pill to swallow.

Would be able to give Pinto roughly 2.000 for 1yr in this case, and run JBD as man #21.

Thoughts?

Torts and company would never allow that to happen.

 

[tmg]

The funny thing is, the senators would have no trouble fitting him in in 24-25 or 25-26, once the Murray and MDZ and Tarasenko moneys are off the books and the cap has actually started to rise. This is a three year remaining contract but really only a one year crunch for this team - if only they could actually trade him with a next summer trade back guarantee and only be asking for another team to eat this for one season (but of course they can’t do that) …

 

[Michoulicious]

$2.95 mil for 3 years, for a 4th liner ... teams are definitely gonna want to be compensated well to eat that. Joseph isn't terrible, but he's nothing special either, a solid but unexceptional 4th liner on most teams IMO, or a 3rd liner liner in a pinch, if you're really strapped for 3rd line talent.

While a 1st rounder is a lot to pay, I don't see Ottawa getting out of that deal for much less - nobody is taking that on for a 2nd rounder IMO. If he was signed 1-2 years, maybe you could get lucky and someone takes him for a 2nd, but signed for 3 years, no. Cap space is at a real premium in this league, very few teams have significant space, and the teams that do know they've got a rare commodity and will charge a premium.

Montreal just got a 3rd round pick to trade DeSmith for Pearson and save the Canucks 1.45 million over only a one year deal.

I don't see any team saving the Sens 2 millions+ for 3 years for anything less than a 1st given current market/teams cap situations.

 

[Vitto79]

Sens mismanagement

 

[LeapOnOver]

No, he didn’t. As any Bolts fan could have told you Joseph has blazing speed but zero hockey IQ and hands of stone. His MO is to force a turnover, speed into the offensive zone, and either fire an ineffective shot straight into the goalie’s chest or turn it right back over with an ill-advised cross-ice pass. Nobody who knows hockey and saw him play on a regular basis thought he had breakout

I read a preseason article last year from a hockey journalist that said he should be on the radar as potentially breaking out, so there is one person that knows hockey and watched him play thst thought that.

 

[Space umpire]

if it's nothing then youre not adding, the whole trade would be thomson and boucher

Are you being argumentative on purpose?
Adding them to the player they are dumping.

It’s really not that difficult.

 

[AndreRoy]

I read a preseason article last year from a hockey journalist that said he should be on the radar as potentially breaking out, so there is one person that knows hockey and watched him play thst thought that.

Hockey journalist != knows hockey.

 

[Groo]

I hope the Sharks sense blood in the water
Otherwise, sniffing around

 

[SensFactor]

Joseph+ Boucher+ Sens 2025 2nd rounder to Philly

 

[ottawagm]

I hope the Sharks sense blood in the water
Otherwise, sniffing around

Joseph + JBD/Thomson + 3rd -> Matt Benning

 

[serp]

There's just no market for a guy making $3M for 3 more years , who isn't even a center and hasn't played anywhere near that level. Not too many teams have capspace and those that have know they can demand a ransom for taking on capspace especially this late in the offseason with training camp already underway.

 

[mr4tno]

I mean yeah, he's a 20 point player making 3 mill for 3 more years. That's not going to be cheap

I'm surprised Dorion could not pull off a trade with the Flyers. Your description of Joseph reeks Flyers.....I'm a Flyers fan, I should know....

 

[Golden_Jet]

if they dont get claimed by another team the sens dont get any cap space. the sens can get minor cap relief if they send jospeh to the minors.

that’s all part of the process to send a player to the minors like Joseph, first has to be put on waivers.