Rumor: Philadelphia wanted a 1st rounder, or specific prospect to take Joseph from Ottawa

[Petes2424]

This strange assumption Boucher “wasn’t enough” as if Ottawa actually offered him, is crazy.

The report suggests that’s what Philly “may want” or “may” have asked for. Not that they somehow declined that and want more. There’s no indication “OTTAWA” has offered such a deal.

The best case scenario for the Sens with Pinto is …. they’ll put someone on LTIR and buy themselves some time…. signing him the day before the season…. Joseph has a good start to the season…… and another team has injuries, making trading for Joseph much easier. A 2nd maybe.

Vegas had to do it last year with Hague. Waiting until the day before the season when LTIR kicks in. Same crazy speculation there. They’ll “have to trade him” or “pay a team to take another player”, etc, etc.

In the end, something has to give though. Whatever that may end up being, it’ll be much easier to do, if Greig has a great preseason, and start to the season. It opens up more options on the Pinto front.

One things an absolute certainty though.. if the Sens do end up trading Shane Pinto, there will be people on this site floored at the return he gets. 22 year old, 6’3”, skilled centermen, who’ve already proven they can produce at the NHL level, don’t grow on trees. They’re worth a lot.

 

[bert]

This strange assumption Boucher “wasn’t enough” as if Ottawa actually offered him, is crazy.

The report suggests that’s what Philly “may want” or “may” have asked for. Not that they somehow declined that and want more. There’s no indication “OTTAWA” has offered such a deal.

The best case scenario for the Sens with Pinto is …. they’ll put someone on LTIR and buy themselves some time…. signing him the day before the season…. Joseph has a good start to the season…… and another team has injuries, making trading for Joseph much easier. A 2nd maybe.

Vegas had to do it last year with Hague. Waiting until the day before the season when LTIR kicks in. Same crazy speculation there. They’ll “have to trade him” or “pay a team to take another player”, etc, etc.

In the end, something has to give though. Whatever that may end up being, it’ll be much easier to do, if Greig has a great preseason, and start to the season. It opens up more options on the Pinto front.

One things an absolute certainty though.. if the Sens do end up trading Shane Pinto, there will be people on this site floored at the return he gets. 22 year old, 6’3”, skilled centermen, who’ve already proven they can produce at the NHL level, don’t grow on trees. They’re worth a lot.

The sens will not be trading Pinto under any circumstances. It makes absolutely no sense on any level for this team. He is the perfect age to fit the core he is a RHS center which they dont have and he isnt expensive. They have 12 million in cap opening next season and that isnt even considering if it goes up. Secondly Andlauer came out out and basically said they arent trading him.

Until Josh Norris plays a pre season game they have an LTIR option without having to trade anyone. They also have an out by simply waiving Joseph and JBD, signing Pinto to a 1 year deal at 1.8 million.

 

[Petes2424]

The sens will not be trading Pinto under any circumstances. It makes absolutely no sense on any level for this team. He is the perfect age to fit the core he is a RHS center which they dont have and he isnt expensive. They have 12 million in cap opening next season and that isnt even considering if it goes up. Secondly Andlauer came out out and basically said they arent trading him.

Until Josh Norris plays a pre season game they have an LTIR option without having to trade anyone. They also have an out by simply waiving Joseph and JBD, signing Pinto to a 1 year deal at 1.8 million.

I doubt he’ll take that, and honestly he shouldn’t. That said, you’re correct. There’s no reason to trade him…. Yet…

If he signs a 2 year deal let’s say, there could be problems with his next deal, forcing the possibility though. Only because of their other long term deals. If he’s due a giant raise at that point, they’ll have to figure that out then. As of now though? No reason to trade him.

 

[bert]

I doubt he’ll take that, and honestly he shouldn’t. That said, you’re correct. There’s no reason to trade him…. Yet…

If he signs a 2 year deal let’s say, there could be problems with his next deal, forcing the possibility though. Only because of their other long term deals. If he’s due a giant raise at that point, they’ll have to figure that out then. As of now though? No reason to trade him.

So a comparable contract was Frost two years at 4.2 million. he is getting 1.8 this year and 2.4 next... 1.8 is very comparable on a one year deal he also gets out of being a 10.2 c. Ottawa has alot more money to sign him next year I am sure he see's that.

 

[AndreRoy]

There's just no market for a guy making $3M for 3 more years , who isn't even a center and hasn't played anywhere near that level. Not too many teams have capspace and those that have know they can demand a ransom for taking on capspace especially this late in the offseason with training camp already underway.

In fairness to Joseph the Lightning did play him at center occasionally and he wasn’t any worse there than at the wing. He’s nowhere near a $3M player and even as a fourth liner leaves a lot to be desired, but if you want him to center your fourth line he can do it.

 

[Korpse]

Wow. Joseph looks good might cost Philly a 1st.

Price is only going up.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Price is only going up.

Quoted yourself

 

[BUCKLE UP]

Quoted yourself

Yeah cause he scored again

 

[Mrfenn92]

Yeah cause he scored again

Ok

 

[Korpse]

Yeah cause he scored again

To be fair, the original post was from Monday.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Joseph flying tonight. Price is now Oliver Bonk.

 

[Icelevel]

Man did Joseph look good last night. Might have to burn the whole trade idea.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Man did Joseph look good last night. Might have to burn the whole trade idea.

Never made sense in the first place.

Joseph's term is a negative to acquiring teams... but a positive to us. He might be slightly overpaid, but the other trade options - Brannstrom & Kubalik - will either be paid way more than Joseph next year (Kubalik) - probably not by us - or likely don't have a long-term spot in the lineup (Brannstrom).

It will be easier to replace/upgrade on Brannstrom than on Joseph, and there's almost no chance we retain Kubalik. Either he will warrant more money than we can give, or he will not be worth re-signing. Not much in-between.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Never made sense in the first place.

Joseph's term is a negative to acquiring teams... but a positive to us. He might be slightly overpaid, but the other trade options - Brannstrom & Kubalik - will either be paid way more than Joseph next year (Kubalik) - probably not by us - or likely don't have a long-term spot in the lineup (Brannstrom).

It will be easier to replace/upgrade on Brannstrom than on Joseph, and there's almost no chance we retain Kubalik. Either he will warrant more money than we can give, or he will not be worth re-signing. Not much in-between.

Feels like everybody has one or two third/4th liners with a little bit too much term , happens to the best of em , you guys are probably just better off bitting the bullet this year and trying again when he has 2 years left

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Feels like everybody has one or two third/4th liners with a little bit too much term , happens to the best of em , you guys are probably just better off bitting the bullet this year and trying again when he has 2 years left

I think theres a very real scenario where he plays out his contract here and the deal is never an issue beyond the current squeeze.

Last year was rough for him but he has been flying out there all pre-season. Beast on the back check and does well when he attacks open ice

 

[Qward]

Joseph is a decent player, I am fine if they keep him.
Just need to find a creative solution to the cap.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I think theres a very real scenario where he plays out his contract here and the deal is never an issue beyond the current squeeze.

Last year was rough for him but he has been flying out there all pre-season. Beast on the back check and does well when he attacks open ice

Joseph sure looked good last night. He was probably the best player on the ice. IF the Senators do trade anyone, I could see it being Brannstrom. That's IF they trade any player as there are certainly other options (e.g., LTIR, waiving players). They'll get some kind of return from a EB trade and will get past this temporary squeeze as there's $5 M of dead cap coming off the books and there'll be a higher cap ceiling next season.

 

[ottawah]

It will be easier to replace/upgrade on Brannstrom than on Joseph, and there's almost no chance we retain Kubalik. Either he will warrant more money than we can give, or he will not be worth re-signing. Not much in-between.

I'd hate to lose Kubalik, mostly for the fact that contract looks very team friendly and for a team in cap hell, it makes no sense to trade away one of your best contracts .... Granted we can likely do well in a trade but it would be for futures and for a team in win now mode you need those contracts.

 

[Altimus]

I'd hate to lose Kubalik, mostly for the fact that contract looks very team friendly and for a team in cap hell, it makes no sense to trade away one of your best contracts .... Granted we can likely do well in a trade but it would be for futures and for a team in win now mode you need those contracts.

Kubalik makes the least amount of sense. Ottawa needs depth score. I think last year Brassard was our best bottem scorer since most of Pintos points came from playing in Norris role. It's the Conner Brown effect, we need sold third liners to fill in the top 6 roles for injuries and be threats when on the ice. Brannstrom makes the most sense since he's playing bottem 6 and is left handed.

 

[abo9]

This strange assumption Boucher “wasn’t enough” as if Ottawa actually offered him, is crazy.

The report suggests that’s what Philly “may want” or “may” have asked for. Not that they somehow declined that and want more. There’s no indication “OTTAWA” has offered such a deal.

The best case scenario for the Sens with Pinto is …. they’ll put someone on LTIR and buy themselves some time…. signing him the day before the season…. Joseph has a good start to the season…… and another team has injuries, making trading for Joseph much easier. A 2nd maybe.

Vegas had to do it last year with Hague. Waiting until the day before the season when LTIR kicks in. Same crazy speculation there. They’ll “have to trade him” or “pay a team to take another player”, etc, etc.

In the end, something has to give though. Whatever that may end up being, it’ll be much easier to do, if Greig has a great preseason, and start to the season. It opens up more options on the Pinto front.

One things an absolute certainty though.. if the Sens do end up trading Shane Pinto, there will be people on this site floored at the return he gets. 22 year old, 6’3”, skilled centermen, who’ve already proven they can produce at the NHL level, don’t grow on trees. They’re worth a lot.

Habs trade for Dach jumps to mind.
Idk what people expect, but also Pinto woyld be traded under different circumstances so probably would return a bit more

 

[AcerComputer]

If OTT were to reacquire Matt Murray, would his $1.5m dead capspace go away, and they could have the whole thing on LTIR?

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I'd hate to lose Kubalik, mostly for the fact that contract looks very team friendly and for a team in cap hell, it makes no sense to trade away one of your best contracts .... Granted we can likely do well in a trade but it would be for futures and for a team in win now mode you need those contracts.

I agree, Kubalik is an excellent 1-yr rental. I just doubt that we will be able to retain him. I wouldn’t trade him unless we were getting a top 9 fwd making less money (ain’t happening)

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I know I'm in the minority, but I'd take take Joseph with a 2025 and prospect Stephen Halliday.

I think Joseph is underrated now because of his contract and his 4 goals last year.

Guy has speed for days, can score, pk, play a physical game and be a pest at times. Easily worth getting paid to take him imo.

If you can get more, so be it.

 

[BurgoShark]

If OTT were to reacquire Matt Murray, would his $1.5m dead capspace go away, and they could have the whole thing on LTIR?

No. They are stuck with it.

Retained salary transactions can't be altered or removed except for buyout. They can't re-acquire Murray and trade or LTIR his full contract.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Current cap space to sign Pinto: 0.807
Trade Brannstrom for future considerations: +2.000 (2.807)
Waive Joseph: +1.150 (3.957)
Sign Bailey to replace Joseph: -0.775 (3.182)
Call-up Kleven to replace Brannstrom: -0.917 (2.265)
Sign Pinto: -2.250 (0.015)

If Philly doesn't want to be reasonable - the Sens aren't entirely screwed. Brannstrom shouldn't be hard to move if that's what it comes to.

Really just depends if Dorion would rather lose Brannstrom, or whatever it costs to move Joseph.

Here's a list of some guys coming off their ELC who had similar production to Pinto, and what they signed for in today's money. IM) the Sens should be able to sign him for 1yr if the number starts with 2.

	Drafted	g	P	P/GP	Signed (2023 money)
Shane Pinto	32nd Overall	20	35	0.43
Niclas Bergfors	23rd Overall	21	44	0.54	$1,269,200 x 1yrs
Mark Jankowski	21st Overall	17	25	0.35	$1,761,850 x 2yrs
Jason Pominville	55th Overall	18	30	0.53	$1,962,250 x 3yrs
R.J. Umberger	16th Overall	20	38	0.52	$2,179,350 x 2yrs
Connor Brown	156th Overall	20	36	0.44	$2,338,000 x 3yrs
Denis Gurianov	12th Overall	20	29	0.45	$2,613,550 x 2yrs
Chris Kreider	19th Overall	17	37	0.56	$2,997,650 x 2yrs
Brad Marchand	71st Overall	21	41	0.53	$3,248,150 x 2yrs