Rumor: Philadelphia wanted a 1st rounder, or specific prospect to take Joseph from Ottawa

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Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
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A 3rd team taking on 50% of Joseph’s contract would be paying $4.65m in real cash and locking up a salary retention slot for three years.

That amount of retention is going to cost a 1st round pick worth of value going to that 3rd team.


Who’s footing the bill between Ottawa and Colorado?

Which is why I'm surprised the Flyers were willing to retain 50% of Hayes' cap hit for the remaining 3 seasons in exchange for a 6th round pick. Obviously not the same scenario as the bolded, and Hayes certainly isn't worth a first round pick but one would think they could have done a little better. (Unless they had a better deal lined up and the team was on his NTC list)

Aside from that, if Ottawa goes the trade route its going to be costly. The other 31 GMs know they're in a bind and have limited options.
 

mouser

Business of Hockey
Jul 13, 2006
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Which is why I'm surprised the Flyers were willing to retain 50% of Hayes' cap hit for the remaining 3 seasons in exchange for a 6th round pick. Obviously not the same scenario as the bolded, and Hayes certainly isn't worth a first round pick but one would think they could have done a little better. (Unless they had a better deal lined up and the team was on his NTC list)

Aside from that, if Ottawa goes the trade route its going to be costly. The other 31 GMs know they're in a bind and have limited options.

If Philly tried to get a 3rd team to retain 50% of Hayes contract it would have cost two 1st round picks of value ($8.5m in real cash).

When a player has negative value teams will often retain salary to trade the player away. That’s completely different from asking a 3rd team with no skin in the Player to eat 50% of dead cap space and dollars to facilitate a trade.
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
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A 3rd team taking on 50% of Joseph’s contract would be paying $4.65m in real cash and locking up a salary retention slot for three years.

That amount of retention is going to cost a 1st round pick worth of value going to that 3rd team.


Who’s footing the bill between Ottawa and Colorado?
Colorado wouldn't trade a 1st (not their style), but in theory Colorado's 1st would be later than Ottawa's so trade Colorado's 1st to the 3rd team and then have Ottawa send some picks to Colorado in addition to Joseph to offset the value of the 1st a bit.
 
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Coffee

Take one step towards the direction you want to go
Nov 12, 2021
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Probably shouldn't have signed an over the hill and not needed Tarasenko.
Dude you guys barely made it out of that Granlund contract and lucked out big.

Not a good look punking on a up and coming team looking to take the next step
 

dirtydanglez

Registered User
Oct 30, 2022
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How about this?

To Colorado: Joseph @$1.475mm X3 (i.e. 50% retained by 3rd team)

To 3rd team (eg. Arizona): picks/prospects from Ottawa/Colorado for $1.475m X3 capspace/retention)

To Ottawa: $2.95m capspace to sign Pinto.

Colorado simultaneously move Francouz ($2m X1) in a separate trade (or to the 3rd team above) and sign Halak to replace him (eg. $1m X1).

Joseph's forechecking game would be a really nice fit in Colorado's bottom 6, assuming the cap could be made to work.

Not sure what the price of the picks/prospects would be to make this idea agreeable. This could also be a model for another team other than Colorado too.
teams want a fortune for cap space. involving a 3rd team would kill the deal

Dude you guys barely made it out of that Granlund contract and lucked out big.

Not a good look punking on a up and coming team looking to take the next step
the granlund contract never left a young player unsigned.
 

Axel Sandy Pelikan

Sugar-free Rock Star
May 11, 2023
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Yeah. I've always said that the cap is way too restrictive. Good organizations shouldn't just lose guys because of one or two bad decisions. No one is going to get everything right.

The fact that you rush a guy to a second contract in hopes he can make less money is so bad for the players. They really need to get something else figured out.

Or teams need to not spend like drunken sailors.
 
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AndreRoy

Registered User
Jan 3, 2018
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Is this the same Matheiu Joseph from the Bolts? He looked prime for a breakout....what happened?
No, he didn’t. As any Bolts fan could have told you Joseph has blazing speed but zero hockey IQ and hands of stone. His MO is to force a turnover, speed into the offensive zone, and either fire an ineffective shot straight into the goalie’s chest or turn it right back over with an ill-advised cross-ice pass. Nobody who knows hockey and saw him play on a regular basis thought he had breakout potential.
 

FlyguyOX

Registered User
Jun 29, 2018
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Which is why I'm surprised the Flyers were willing to retain 50% of Hayes' cap hit for the remaining 3 seasons in exchange for a 6th round pick. Obviously not the same scenario as the bolded, and Hayes certainly isn't worth a first round pick but one would think they could have done a little better. (Unless they had a better deal lined up and the team was on his NTC list)

Aside from that, if Ottawa goes the trade route its going to be costly. The other 31 GMs know they're in a bind and have limited options.
The Ryan Johansson trade shortly before ruined any idea the flyers could do better
 
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TkachukNorris79

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Jan 27, 2018
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He had a tough season with injuries last year but the sens are in a cap crunch due to so much dead cap on the books. I would like to keep him around, he is a useful player.
Yeah and he also played 2/3 of his minutes with offensive blackhole Tyler Motte, which surely didn't help.
 

Djp

Registered User
Jul 28, 2012
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Alexandria, VA
Which is why I'm surprised the Flyers were willing to retain 50% of Hayes' cap hit for the remaining 3 seasons in exchange for a 6th round pick. Obviously not the same scenario as the bolded, and Hayes certainly isn't worth a first round pick but one would think they could have done a little better. (Unless they had a better deal lined up and the team was on his NTC list)

Aside from that, if Ottawa goes the trade route its going to be costly. The other 31 GMs know they're in a bind and have limited options.

there is a fundamental difference if a team is unloading their own doing vs being a middle man broker

a factor is perceived need. Need to create cap space to be cap compliant is an obvious one.

for example, buffalo acquired LTIR player right after the Eichel trade. Reason they didnt do it before was that they wouldn’t get a higher cost player in return Like they got in Tuch.

if Ottawa was just moving him without the tarasenko talk after Debrincat trade they might have a lower ask From teams to take him.

when it comes to retained sakary on a broker…people on here don’t seem to understand the real dollar amount. At the deadline minnesota retained on ROR because his real dollars was way low given a $1M salary for season. Tarasenko had a near 6x the amount of money owed.

players with term it’s much different and still tied to real dollars owed.
 

Guttersniped

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Dec 20, 2018
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How about this?

To Colorado: Joseph @$1.475mm X3 (i.e. 50% retained by 3rd team)

To 3rd team (eg. Arizona): picks/prospects from Ottawa/Colorado for $1.475m X3 capspace/retention)

To Ottawa: $2.95m capspace to sign Pinto.

Colorado simultaneously move Francouz ($2m X1) in a separate trade (or to the 3rd team above) and sign Halak to replace him (eg. $1m X1).

Joseph's forechecking game would be a really nice fit in Colorado's bottom 6, assuming the cap could be made to work.

Not sure what the price of the picks/prospects would be to make this idea agreeable. This could also be a model for another team other than Colorado too.

A 3rd team taking on 50% of Joseph’s contract would be paying $4.65m in real cash and locking up a salary retention slot for three years.

That amount of retention is going to cost a 1st round pick worth of value going to that 3rd team.


Who’s footing the bill between Ottawa and Colorado?

The cost to get a 3rd team would be prohibitive because teams don’t want to lose a retention spot for 3 years, most don’t have 3 open ones now.

OEL is taking up one of Arizona’s three until 2028-29, it would take a whole lot to get them to give up a 2nd one for 3 years.
 
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thedjpd

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there is a fundamental difference if a team is unloading their own doing vs being a middle man broker

a factor is perceived need. Need to create cap space to be cap compliant is an obvious one.

for example, buffalo acquired LTIR player right after the Eichel trade. Reason they didnt do it before was that they wouldn’t get a higher cost player in return Like they got in Tuch.

if Ottawa was just moving him without the tarasenko talk after Debrincat trade they might have a lower ask From teams to take him.

when it comes to retained sakary on a broker…people on here don’t seem to understand the real dollar amount. At the deadline minnesota retained on ROR because his real dollars was way low given a $1M salary for season. Tarasenko had a near 6x the amount of money owed.

players with term it’s much different and still tied to real dollars owed.
As long as it’s somebody else’s money eh?
 

OgeeOgelthorpe

Riccis per 60 record holder
Feb 29, 2020
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Since Detroit loves to help out Ottawa with cap issues...

Joseph + Kleven

for

Wyatt Newpower
:sarcasm:
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
42,161
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Mulberry Street
there is a fundamental difference if a team is unloading their own doing vs being a middle man broker

a factor is perceived need. Need to create cap space to be cap compliant is an obvious one.

for example, buffalo acquired LTIR player right after the Eichel trade. Reason they didnt do it before was that they wouldn’t get a higher cost player in return Like they got in Tuch.

if Ottawa was just moving him without the tarasenko talk after Debrincat trade they might have a lower ask From teams to take him.

when it comes to retained sakary on a broker…people on here don’t seem to understand the real dollar amount. At the deadline minnesota retained on ROR because his real dollars was way low given a $1M salary for season. Tarasenko had a near 6x the amount of money owed.

players with term it’s much different and still tied to real dollars owed.

I literally said different situation.
 

ottawah

Registered User
Jan 7, 2011
3,654
753
To Colorado: Joseph @$1.475mm X3 (i.e. 50% retained by 3rd team)
That tough. First off there are only 10 teams that can take even that meager cap hit. Several of them already have a lot tied up in retention including slots. Buffalo and Detroit, in their division and fighting for a playoff spot with the sens are not likely to help out at all. Teams with their eyes on the playoffs likely want to save cap space. And some, like Columbus, if looking past this year will have to really up their spending next year.

The hard truth is I do not see a great candidate for anyone to take on even that meager a retention for 3 years. And if one like Arizona did, no reason to think it would be cheap as they know Ottawa is over a barrel.
 

kmwtrucks

Registered User
Mar 11, 2014
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if he is moved really the only viable teams are Chicago, phil or SJ. the other teams with enough cap space are not going to want that 2nd and 3rd year.
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
19,408
21,158
That tough. First off there are only 10 teams that can take even that meager cap hit. Several of them already have a lot tied up in retention including slots. Buffalo and Detroit, in their division and fighting for a playoff spot with the sens are not likely to help out at all. Teams with their eyes on the playoffs likely want to save cap space. And some, like Columbus, if looking past this year will have to really up their spending next year.

The hard truth is I do not see a great candidate for anyone to take on even that meager a retention for 3 years. And if one like Arizona did, no reason to think it would be cheap as they know Ottawa is over a barrel.
Hypothetically let's say a team did agree to retain $1.475m X3 in exchange for Colorado's (or another teams) 2024 1st (via Ottawa). In that case what would Ottawa pay Colorado to make up the value for Colorado, since Joseph (@$1.475m) on his own isn't worth a 1st?

In other words, fill in the blank:

Joseph ($2.95m X3) + _________ for COL 2024 1st (flipped to 3rd team for 50% retention)
 

Weltschmerz

Front Running Fan
Apr 22, 2007
5,375
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if he is moved really the only viable teams are Chicago, phil or SJ. the other teams with enough cap space are not going to want that 2nd and 3rd year.
Sharks have 2 retention spots already blocked long term, doubt they wnat to use the 3rd on that.
 
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