Rumor: Philadelphia wanted a 1st rounder, or specific prospect to take Joseph from Ottawa

[sennysensen]

LTIR Norris helps for 3 weeks, but doesn’t accumulate any cap space.

Are you sure? Does a player have to LTIR for the whole year? I could have sworn Murray on the LTIR for 2 months last year made cap space for the Leafs. Or does it have to be at least 4 weeks? 6 weeks?

Please explain how it works, I have no idea.

 

[robsenz]

meh, Boucher

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Knock it off, now, por favor.

 

[Comely]

I wonder if the Sens are allowed to re-acquire Murrray and if that would allow them to put the full cap hit on IR

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I wonder if the Sens are allowed to re-acquire Murrray and if that would allow them to put the full cap hit on IR

Yes & yes. It's been over a year so it's all kosher.

Here's an article explaining it (from when Philly was trying to trade Deangelo to Carolina): https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/philadelphia-flyers/news/flyers-trading-tony-deangelo-back-hurricanes

 

[Weltschmerz]

Are you sure? Does a player have to LTIR for the whole year? I could have sworn Murray on the LTIR for 2 months last year made cap space for the Leafs. Or does it have to be at least 4 weeks? 6 weeks?

Please explain how it works, I have no idea.

LTIR FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Golden_Jet]

Are you sure? Does a player have to LTIR for the whole year? I could have sworn Murray on the LTIR for 2 months last year made cap space for the Leafs. Or does it have to be at least 4 weeks? 6 weeks?

Please explain how it works, I have no idea.

Yea I’m sure.
If you have 4 million of players on LTIR for 4 weeks, you get 4 million to replace that player for the 4 weeks, however it is not accumulated to be used later.

To qualify for LTIR you need to miss 10 games and 24 days missed before going on LTIR. There is also off season LTIR for players that missed a lot of the previous season.

Leafs used Murray’s LTIR room at the deadline with other players acquired,

 

[These Are The Days]

And people question Julien Brisebois because Stamkos didn't get extended yet. This guy knows what he's doing

 

[notbias]

And people question Julien Brisebois because Stamkos didn't get extended yet. This guy knows what he's doing

That's not the reason

 

[ottawah]

If the entire league is jammed up independent of where a team is in their cycle of contention I would suggest the system isn’t properly designed.

But there was a time when this was not the case. But the last several years have seen more and more teams push to the absolute cap. Heck, way beyond it. Right now there are 14 teams over the cap. And 9 over the cap even when accounting for LTIR candidates. Plus 8 within a million of the cap. I never remember anything close to that before.

We are close to 20 years into the cap era, yet teams seem to get worse at managing it year by year ......

 

[GAGLine]

Yea I’m sure.
If you have 4 million of players on LTIR for 4 weeks, you get 4 million to replace that player for the 4 weeks, however it is not accumulated to be used later.

To qualify for LTIR you need to miss 10 games and 24 days missed before going on LTIR. There is also off season LTIR for players that missed a lot of the previous season.

Leafs used Murray’s LTIR room at the deadline with other players acquired,

The bolded isn't accurate.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

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When a player has an injury of which they are expected to miss a minimum of 10 NHL games and 24 days in the NHL season, the team can place them on long term injured reserve (LTIR).

 

[Mersss]

Don't the Sens already have 900K or close to it? so if they waive Joseph and Bury 1.2 of his salary that takes them to 2.1, maybe 2.2.

That gets them close



But a 1st rounder is still to much

No it's not. 3M$ for a 14th F is terrible. Like very terrible

 

[UglyPuckling]

Of course it would be easy to make it up...but who in their right mind (player wise) would sign that? You play 1 game and tear your ACL, say goodbye to that promise. Especially if Dorion is on the hot seat this season and gets fired by the end of it, Pinto will get another low cap hit contract that wouldn't be worth it.

It's the same premise of, oh it's okay, he will be UFA after this season and we will go after him then. Nope, that boy is gonna get signed more often than not and you will stand there with your di*k in your hand and your wallet isn't on your dresser again. Seen it a thousand times (tommy boy reference anyone? ANYONE?).

Even in your example (although slight condescension given and received), 500k today is more than 250k x2 within the next 3 years (1 year removed after signing a low-ball contract). Your right, they could pay it over the next two years after he signs this one, but as stated above, Dorion's promise isn't going to be the next guys promise if he get's fired and if I am Pinto, it is not my problem that the GM made a massive mistake and signed others to bigger contracts than they are worth (Joseph as an example and try to remember its an example). That's on you.

Pay me for my worth today or trade me, tomorrow is promised to man.

It could be more appealing for a player than to sit the season. As a 10.2.c, he doesn't have any leverage (look it up if you have to which is likely). They don't have to trade Pinto. Andlauer is the owner now, so he'd need to be involved and provide the assurance to the Pinto camp.

There will be a solution ultimately in the end that isn't nuclear. They have been mentioned in this thread by various Senator fans and of course are far less onerous e.g., send Joseph down to the AHL (this is just one of several solutions mentioned). Of course, the Chicken Littles will bloviate about the most dire "sky is falling" scenarios.

 

[TheNewEra]

I remember when the Sens had to add multiple first round picks to move Murray

 

[notbias]

I remember when the Sens had to add multiple first round picks to move Murray

They retained 1.5 million which is hurting them right now and will likely cost them another pick/prospect and gave up a 3rd + 7th...

 

[Golden_Jet]

The bolded isn't accurate.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

That doesn’t say they get cap relief before the 10 days is up.
Now tell me what the actual CBA says,

They retained 1.5 million which is hurting them right now and will likely cost them another pick/prospect and gave up a 3rd + 7th...

Yep way better than 6.25 , cannot believe the leafs even took him, Dubas just going for another Soo guy.
Thanks for taking him, was much appreciated.

 

[Comely]

Yes & yes. It's been over a year so it's all kosher.

Here's an article explaining it (from when Philly was trying to trade Deangelo to Carolina): https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/philadelphia-flyers/news/flyers-trading-tony-deangelo-back-hurricanes

Wouldn't that be the easiest way under the cap then, reacquire Murray, place him on IR, the 1.5M retained now becomes available as IR space and then they have 2.5 to re-sign Pinto

 

[Detroit Knights]

It could be more appealing for a player than to sit the season. As a 10.2.c, he doesn't have any leverage (look it if you have to which is likely). They don't have to trade Pinto. Andlauer is the owner now, so he'd need to be involved and provide the assurance to the Pinto camp.

There will be a solution ultimately in the end that isn't nuclear. They have been mentioned in this thread by various Senator fans and of course are far less onerous e.g., send Joseph down to the AHL (this is just one of several solutions mentioned). Of course, the Chicken Littles will bloviate about the most dire "sky is falling" scenarios.

So do you believe that no one will claim joseph on waivers if ottawa tries to send him down? Of which would only save you 1.15 mil on the cap.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

At the end of the day, the NHL is just an entertainment product competing for viewership and it isn’t doing well.

The idea any organization should be “punished” even for “mismanagement” makes no sense since you’re just hurting the paying audience in Ottawa in this case.

Like bravo, you’ve created anxiety and uncertainty for a fanbase that was otherwise just looking forward to some good times after years in the wilderness and ownership uncertainty. Way to sell hockey.

And the core of the that entertainment product which includes a collectively bargained set of rules that all 32 teams agreed to that enable that competition to be "fair".

 

[UglyPuckling]

So do you believe that no one will claim joseph on waivers if ottawa tries to send him down? Of which would only save you 1.15 mil on the cap.

If a team claims Joseph, that would be fine & be good from a cap perspective. There's other solutions that have been mentioned. I think we've run this to ground now. Cheers.

 

[dirtydanglez]

That's not the reason

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the guy took a shot at being a dynasty. i cant knock him for that.

 

[notbias]

That doesn’t say they get cap relief before the 10 days is up.
Now tell me what the actual CBA says,


Yep way better than 6.25 , cannot believe the leafs even took him, Dubas just going for another Soo guy.
Thanks for taking him, was much appreciated.

Got a 3rd + a 7th for a gamble... currently nothing on the books for the Leafs, Ottawa is still eating salary.

Good trade for Toronto.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Got a 3rd + a 7th for a gamble... currently nothing on the books for the Leafs, Ottawa is still eating salary.

Good trade for Toronto.

To suggest it was a gamble worth taking is one thing... but to suggest it was a good trade for Toronto given hindsight is laughable. If they could undo it they would.

 

[biturbo19]

I mean yeah, he's a 20 point player making 3 mill for 3 more years. That's not going to be cheap

Yeah. The term is such a real killer here. It's not just asking someone to swallow a bad deal for a year. There's a lot of "opportunity cost" to a team eating 3 years of a guy making 3 times what he should be.

He's not even a completely terrible, useless player like some cap dumps who are aged out and entirely washed up. But he's a 4th line grinder making solid middle-6 money with significant term attached. Not going to be cheap to unload that.


You have to think about the price to take him on, as competing with effectively...3 separate years worth of "cap dump" deals all in one. ie. A team like Philly could prospectively use that $3M in wasted cap space, to make three separate deals to take on short-term cap dumps. So the price is going to reflect that.

 

[Coffee]

Especially considering Chabot and Chychrun are made of glass.

No they aren’t.