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OT: Philadelphia Eagles (NFL): Don't Cry Because It's Over, Smile Because it Happened (Offseason - 2023)

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RockLobster said:
Florio has a story up that Georgia coaches were actually pretty open with not liking Carter…gotta hope that either it’s being completely blown out of proportion or that the Eagles can get his head on straight
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Florio also said Hopkins was getting traded.
 
DancingPanther said:
Florio also said Hopkins was getting traded.
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Not only Florio.
McShay said something similar last night. And I mean you just have to listen to Carter to realize that he is lets say a complicated character. But there is no chance in hell the Eagles land him if he wouldn't have severe red flags off the field because his on the field performance is worthy of being the first (non-QB) pick in many drafts.

Howie is gambling on his lockerroom, coaches and general culture of the franchise as well as his former teammates helping out keeping him in check.
There is risk but in a rather weak draft it just makes so much sense to risk it. Sometimes it works out (see: Randy Moss) and sometimes it doesn't.


@Chinatown88 : I am always on team trade down but I don't think we can afford to trade down with both picks. We need a quality O-Liner and there aren't that many left on the board anymore IMO.
Also there is a ton of corner talent still on the board. Wouldn't mind snagging a Brent either.
I am no Ringo fan but the Georgia connection would be funny as well.

I'd like a small trade down for say a 5th and then OL, CB and RB (or S/LB instead if someone is falling to us. But this is such a great RB class that I kinda want to take a swing on someone dropping).
 
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JojoTheWhale said:
And right at the top is the guy in the conversation with Luck and Lawrence for the most valuable asset to enter the NFL this century.
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Wait could you explain this? I'm obviously not disagreeing, but leaving out someone like Mahomes or Burrow is interesting to me and just want to hear your thoughts. Are you saying specifically the value of the player on draft night? I could see how that rules out Mahomes
 
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DancingPanther said:
Wait could you explain this? I'm obviously not disagreeing, but leaving out someone like Mahomes or Burrow is interesting to me and just want to hear your thoughts. Are you saying specifically the value of the player on draft night? I could see how that rules out Mahomes
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I think JoJo is talking about Luck and Lawrence being can't-miss-generational QBs for a year+ out heading into the Draft & that evaluation never really changing.
 
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DancingPanther said:
Wait could you explain this? I'm obviously not disagreeing, but leaving out someone like Mahomes or Burrow is interesting to me and just want to hear your thoughts
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Mahomes is an easy answer; he wasn't considered the most valuable asset in his own draft. He wasn't even considered the most valuable QB asset in his draft (Mitch Trubisky went #2, Mahomes #10.)

Burrow entered the league as the #1 pick and reigning Heisman winner, but (and Jojo can speak to this far better than I can) wasn't considered the unquestioned, slam-dunk #1. There was at least some consideration of Tua and Herbert as potential #1 picks. Luck and Lawrence were bell-to-bell, this guy IS the #1 pick and everyone else is fighting for #2 types.

The Burrow draft would be the rough equivalent of the MacKinnon/Barkov draft, where they made the right choice in the end, but there was reason to believe other names were in the mix.

The Lawrence draft is the Auston Matthews draft, where he was going #1 and everyone else was in the mix for #2.

The Mahomes draft is 2014. Pick #1 was a great pick at a different position, the first forward off the board was Reinhart, objectively the wrong pick, and the correct pick, Drai, went later on.
 
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BrindamoursNose said:
I think JoJo is talking about Luck and Lawrence being can't-miss-generational QBs for a year+ out heading into the Draft & that evaluation never really changing.
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I see. Burrow wasn't one of those? Again I'm not nitpicking I'm just trying to get things straight because I don't pay too much attention to prospects in any sport
 
Yeah Burrow pretty much went from Day 3 pick to franchise QB in a few months. He was also older (5th year senior) and not as mobile. Williams has been a top tier QB since he was 18. 5 star recruit. The pedigree is much better. For reference, Burrow attempted 28 total passes at the same point in his career as Williams. Williams has attempted 711.
 
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JojoTheWhale said:
Matt Barkley and Spencer Rattler were never generational QBs in the NFL draft cycle. You're confusing being projected near the top of the draft with what I'm saying here. Barkley for example was a super hyped QB1 recruit out of Mater Dei who started as a Freshman and played well. There's the infamous quote from Kiper about how he could be a 1OA NFL pick before he had ever played a college game. Then he completely fell on his face his Sophomore year before having the excellent Junior season. But he was still ranked clearly behind Luck, and would have fallen behind RGIII no matter what Barkley did. He didn't have the physical tools to hold off any of those guys if they hit.

Caleb Williams has been the best QB in the country since he started playing. Every QB gets picked apart in their draft year. That is an undeniable truth of the draft process. That's going to happen to Williams to some degree too. It happened to Luck. It happened to Lawrence. But those guys were still wire to wire, no doubt about it 1OAs over multiple years. Those are the only two semi-recent comps we have for what Williams has done.

Remember the U18s when you could watch Bedard and Wright play in the same environment? And one was really good, but the other was an alien? Houston decided to risk trading the pick that becomes the alien. That is a different discussion than just trading next year's 1st when you might not be good. And they did it for a non-QB.
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I think too the recruiting sites (or at least 247 Sports & On3) have gotten much better at projecting players out of high school now compared to when Barkley was coming out of high school. These sites are looking for modern traits that project to the NFL if all things go well now.

But for example 247 Sports wouldn’t give Jake Fromm a 5* in a more recent cycle ago because they didn’t think he had any elite traits. If this was 15 years ago he’s easily a 5* with his profile. They admitted he was a high floor guy & likely a multi-year starter at the college level with a chance to be drafted in the mid to late rounds in the NFL which pretty much happened.
 
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BrindamoursNose said:
I think JoJo is talking about Luck and Lawrence being can't-miss-generational QBs for a year+ out heading into the Draft & that evaluation never really changing.
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This. Luck and Lawrence were unshakeable monoliths from the time they stepped in and were good at the college level. Believe me, this has nothing to do with my opinions. I made bets on Fields going 1OA before the 2021 season because he completely outplayed Lawrence in 2020. It never mattered. It never came close to mattering.

That is the level of prospect in which Caleb Williams is generally regarded. I love Maye. Hell, I love Ewers. Those are different animals. Williams has an absolute cannon, might be the best QB out of structure of the Spread era, and was immediately and consistently the best QB in the country for both of his years.

Sort of a sidenote, but I think people remember Luck as a pocket passer. No. Andrew Luck could do everything. He had a functionally equivalent RAS to RGIII on top of being the best pocket passing prospect since Elway.
 
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FLYguy3911 said:
Yeah Burrow pretty much went from Day 3 pick to franchise QB in a few months. He was also older (5th year senior) and not as mobile. Williams has been a top tier QB since he was 18. 5 star recruit. The pedigree is much better. For reference, Burrow attempted 28 total passes at the same point in his career as Williams. Williams has attempted 711.
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Burrow's arm strength is also the bare minimum level for high end NFL functionality. He has no room for error.
 
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DancingPanther said:
Is Luck being sacrificed to that Colts team the biggest tragedy in modern sports player wasting?
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You'll never get a hard answer to the single biggest, but it's on the short list with names like Vick. Hell, the Lions managed to waste maybe the most talented RB AND maybe the most talented WR ever within a couple of decades. Ryan Leaf wasted himself, so count that however you want. He was neck and neck with Manning.

I look at injuries as a different category, even if they're what eventually forced Luck out.
 
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JojoTheWhale said:
You'll never get a hard answer to the single biggest, but it's on the short list with names like Vick. Hell, the Lions managed to waste maybe the most talented RB AND maybe the most talented WR ever within a couple of decades. Ryan Leaf wasted himself, so count that however you want. He was neck and neck with Manning.

I look at injuries as a different category, even if they're what eventually forced Luck out.
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I'm surprised you didn't list Peyton based on your previous wrecking of Tony Dungy.
 
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RockLobster said:
Any mock drafts out there for the 2nd & 3rd rounds?
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Best available by consensus.

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