Confirmed Signing with Link: [PHI] Brayden Schenn (4 years, $5.125M AAV)

[93LEAFS]

There was a lot of line-juggling throughout last season but generally Schenn's place is on Couturier's wing, not Giroux's, with additional time on PP1 as the 5th option.

Schenn played 530 minutes at 5 on 5 with Giroux, and played only 191 with Coturier this year. The numbers don't back up this statement.

 

[Starat327]

Schenn played 530 minutes at 5 on 5 with Giroux, and played only 191 with Coturier this year. The numbers don't back up this statement.

Schenn also took over as C when Couturier went down. That's the joy of having a player who can play adequately at every position. Schenn saw time as both the top line LW and RW during the Voracek experience, but also a decent amount of time centering, or flanking the second line. There were lots of moves that Hakstol made to mix things up, as the feeling was our lines were too predictable.

Sadly, the only 'constants' in the Flyers line up last year was the 4th line.

 

[phlocky]

Nice strawman. Attack the poster as you have nothing to add. What part of him slightly outscoring Kadri while playing with Giroux and Simmonds on MUCH better QoC is false? Did Kadri not have the lowest shooting% of his career to start the year? Did he not play with JVR half a year and Komarov?

How is it unreasonable to say a center in a shutdown role with two vastly worse linemates scoring slightly less isn't a mystery?

He's also a winger, and on a playoff team.



Well you know, when a player is signed... Typically they are compared to other comparable players..

Okay, I swear I wasn't going to do this but here we go. Schenn did NOT play with G and Simmonds except on the power play. He played with Coots on the shut down line going up against the EXACT same guys 5v5 that Kadri did. If you are going to talk like you know what you are saying you might want to get your facts straight instead of talking out your backside.

Now, as to "context", scorers ALWAYS get paid more than defensive minded players. Doesn't make them better nor more valuable, just paid more AND THAT MY FRIEND IS A FACT!!!! Schenn got a bigger raise than Coots did but there isn't a Flyers fan around who believes Schenn is even close to as valuable to the team as Coots is. It's just that simple, scorers get paid more than defensive minded players

 

[phlocky]

Drinking so early in the day could be a sign of addiction....maybe you should see someone

I do, I see my bartender every day about it, lol, j/k. I probably shouldn't joke about it especially since my sister just died a little over a year ago because of it. Really not something to joke about when it smacks you in the face.

Damn, now I've gone and made myself all depressed.

 

[Tripod]

Interesting breakdown of Schenn's point production, very dependent on Giroux and the PP.

http://dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_...2016:R:99&Submit=Show+Line+Production&sent=go

Well...aren't we lucky that Schenn will be the #1 LW beside Giroux for the next 4 years then.



Anyone judging Schenn on points and points alone are narrow minded. His physical play, agitation, ability to play all forward position all add into his value.

Flyers fans would have NO ISSUE saying this was a bad deal if we believed so. Hell, don't take my word for it, look at a poll that was done on our board:

Choices are 1 year at 4.8 or 4 years at 5.2.....92% for the 4 year deal. So we were more than comfortable with that number.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2108175

All along, I said I was expecting 5 years at 5.25....more than Smith(5), less than Schwartz(5.35).

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Okay, I swear I wasn't going to do this but here we go. Schenn did NOT play with G and Simmonds except on the power play. He played with Coots on the shut down line going up against the EXACT same guys 5v5 that Kadri did. If you are going to talk like you know what you are saying you might want to get your facts straight instead of talking out your backside.

The following would indicate the bolded part is incorrect.

This site indicates that Schenn's most common linemate at 5 on 5 was Giroux, playing 529:50 with him. He played 355:32 with Raffl and 334:08 with Simmonds, second and third most after Giroux. Schenn only played 191:08 this season with Couturier.

So I really don't know where you're getting the bolded from.

 

[Striiker]

I don't understand how Flyers fans are happy/content with this deal. Very expensive for a guy who's only hit 50 points once in his career.

Well I'd assume it's because we signed one of our core players to a contract with both the term and cap hit that we wanted? Can't say for sure though.

It's not a steal but is also not an overpayment... I would have liked him to sign for the league minimum, but since we live in the real world I'll be happy with him getting exactly what's fair. It's not "very expensive", it's what he's worth. In fact, if he scores around 60 points next year then he might even be a bit underpaid, although I assume he'll be somewhere in the 50-60 point range.

 

[phlocky]

Schenn also took over as C when Couturier went down. That's the joy of having a player who can play adequately at every position. Schenn saw time as both the top line LW and RW during the Voracek experience, but also a decent amount of time centering, or flanking the second line. There were lots of moves that Hakstol made to mix things up, as the feeling was our lines were too predictable.

Sadly, the only 'constants' in the Flyers line up last year was the 4th line.

Oh and what an ugly 4th line that was

 

[phlocky]

The following would indicate the bolded part is incorrect.

This site indicates that Schenn's most common linemate at 5 on 5 was Giroux, playing 529:50 with him. He played 355:32 with Raffl and 334:08 with Simmonds, second and third most after Giroux. Schenn only played 191:08 this season with Couturier.

So I really don't know where you're getting the bolded from.

Lol, okay, I'm older and maybe I'm only remembering what I want to, but hey, cut someone born in the 60s some slack, lol. I thought he spent most of his time with Coots, guess he did play a lot with G.

Damn that crow tastes awful, lol

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

I guess it's fair; can be one to argue about a slight overpay. He's going to just fine

 

[Hockeypete49]

You are entitled to that, but usage and advanced stats point to you being wrong.

Here is a tip. Stats are nice but here is a tip. Watch Brayden during a game and that would point to you being wrong. Just do not base everything on a computer, it helps for sure but you need to watch the game to...just a tip Have a nice day.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

Could have been better, but it could have been a lot worse. Fair deal IMO. However, if Schenn continues to elevate his game this season he might make the contract look really good.

Or it could make it look worse too - if Schenn continues to excel he will command more in just 4 years instead of long term

 

[Tripod]

If it makes the haters feel better, at least we are paying Simmonds 3.95 million for the next 3 years. So between them, we are paying just over 9 million a year and last year they got us 119 points. Fair?



Also remember, Schenn just gave Philly 2 years of 47 and 59 points....all while making 2.5 million. He earned his raise.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Well...aren't we lucky that Schenn will be the #1 LW beside Giroux for the next 4 years then.



Anyone judging Schenn on points and points alone are narrow minded. His physical play, agitation, ability to play all forward position all add into his value.

But just in case you do:

1 less ES point than Giroux on the season.
From 1/1 on, he had 2 more ES points than Giroux.

 

[Russian Factor]

good job to amanda

 

[Marlowe Syn]

Thread title. Signing... Philadelphia... Brayden... Schenn...

Why the hell am I seeing Kadri everywhere?

Because every thread, no matter the subject matter, is Leaf-centric. No one hijack a thread like TML fans.
I thought the signing was pretty steep. Granted I do like the Flyer, I just don't get to see them too much. But the Flyer fans more knowledgeable of Schenn's game and importance, seem to be happy with the signing. This is fan base that is no stranger steep cap hits and terms on players. Hextall has done a great job righting the ship.

 

[Stranger Danger]

I thought the signing was pretty steep. Granted I do like the Flyer, I just don't get to see them too much. But the Flyer fans more knowledgeable of Schenn's game and importance, seem to be happy with the signing. This is fan base that is no stranger steep cap hits and terms on players. Hextall has done a great job righting the ship.

Yeah, I watch most games, and really a guy like B. Schenn just does it all. And he is only improving, year after year. Nothing to be upset about as a flyers fan

 

[Stranger Danger]

good job to amanda

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[mja]

Schenn played 530 minutes at 5 on 5 with Giroux, and played only 191 with Coturier this year. The numbers don't back up this statement.

Um, this doesn't contradict anything I posted at all.

Again, Schenn's place is generally on Couturier's wing, not Giroux's, but you might not have realized that Couturier missed a quarter of the season.

Again, the first line this year was in constant flux, mostly due to Voracek being in a slump for much of the year, and all of Voracek, Simmonds, Raffl, & Schenn saw time there. Voracek spent 10 games or so stuck on the 4th line with Bellemare & VandeVelde, and Schenn got all of Jake's usual EV minutes with Giroux during that stretch. The year before Giroux was almost exclusively flanked by Raffl & Voracek. Moving forward, Schenn's penciled in next to Couturier, not Giroux, though I could frankly see him earning a spot on the top line. He had good chemistry with both Giroux & Couturier last year.

He is definitely on PP1 with Giroux though - he lines up in the slot, where Hartnell used to line up. Hartnell was excellent at quickly releasing a one-timer from that spot past the goalie. Schenn hasn't been as good at that but he has done a better job of drifting to the net to give Simmonds & Voracek some support when Giroux throws the puck down to the former or tries to hit the latter going backdoor. See, when you actually watch the games, you know stuff.

 

[1865]

I don't understand how Flyers fans are happy/content with this deal. Very expensive for a guy who's only hit 50 points once in his career.

A guy who's improved his points totals every year has just hit 50 points and that's your analysis?

 

[Rebels57]

Perfect deal! Right under the $5.25 million I thought he would get. Well done again Hextall.

If he drops down to a 50 point player he is appropriatey paid and if he builds on the 59 he just posted and becomes a consistent 60 point forward through his prime years, then this is a very good deal for the Flyers.

Despite the fact that every RFA forward that resigned this offseason has been fairly paid, every single thread has been full of people criticizing it based on their own perception of the player, rather than actual facts. Put some effort in folks.

 

[Currysux*]

Lol, okay, I'm older and maybe I'm only remembering what I want to, but hey, cut someone born in the 60s some slack, lol. I thought he spent most of his time with Coots, guess he did play a lot with G.

Damn that crow tastes awful, lol

Hey at least you admitted it some guys [mod] would still argue that.

 

[Appleyard]

Here is an interesting (well I think so anyway) little comparison looking at the RFA top 6 forwards signed this summer.

Basically working out the cost per point per 82 games of their new deals against their production over last few years splits:

Last yrs production CostPerPoint:

Killorn: $111,250
MacKinnon: $106,780
Kreider: $102,778
Smith: $100,000
Schwartz: $97,273
Johansson: $89,869
Scheifele: $87,500
Trocheck: $83,333
Palmieri: $81,579

Average: $95,597

Schenn: $85,417

Last 2 yrs production CostPerPoint:

MacKinnon: $116,667
Smith: $111,111
Killorn: $105,952
Scheifele: $103,814
Kreider: $100,543
Trocheck: $96,939
Johansson: $93,537
Palmieri: $91,176
Schwartz: $82,308

Average: $100,227

Schenn: $94,907

Last 3 yrs production CostPerPoint:

Scheifele: $111,364
MacKinnon: $108,621
Smith: $106,383
Killorn: $105,952
Trocheck: $101,064
Kreider: $100,543
Palmieri: $98,936
Johansson: $95,486
Schwartz: $86,290

Average: $101,627

Schenn: $104,592


Basically:

Schenn going off last year and last 2 years production is a very good deal... going off last 3 years it is a ~$150k over-payment.


Ofc there is more to hockey & contracts than P/82... D, versatility, progression, teammates, role, term, fitness etc, but makes a nice comparison.

 

[93LEAFS]

Um, this doesn't contradict anything I posted at all.

Again, Schenn's place is generally on Couturier's wing, not Giroux's, but you might not have realized that Couturier missed a quarter of the season.

Again, the first line this year was in constant flux, mostly due to Voracek being in a slump for much of the year, and all of Voracek, Simmonds, Raffl, & Schenn saw time there. Voracek spent 10 games or so stuck on the 4th line with Bellemare & VandeVelde, and Schenn got all of Jake's usual EV minutes with Giroux during that stretch. The year before Giroux was almost exclusively flanked by Raffl & Voracek. Moving forward, Schenn's penciled in next to Couturier, not Giroux, though I could frankly see him earning a spot on the top line. He had good chemistry with both Giroux & Couturier last year.

He is definitely on PP1 with Giroux though - he lines up in the slot, where Hartnell used to line up. Hartnell was excellent at quickly releasing a one-timer from that spot past the goalie. Schenn hasn't been as good at that but he has done a better job of drifting to the net to give Simmonds & Voracek some support when Giroux throws the puck down to the former or tries to hit the latter going backdoor. See, when you actually watch the games, you know stuff.

I realized Couturier missed a quarter of the year. That still doesn't explain away a nearly 300 minute difference in ice time at 5 on 5 with Giroux over Couturier. Over the past 2 years he's played more with Giroux at 5 on 5 to the extent of 975 to 387. He hasn't had one full season where Couturier was his primary center. His break out this year came playing mostly with Claude Giroux.

 

[Appleyard]

I realized Couturier missed a quarter of the year. That still doesn't explain away a nearly 300 minute difference in ice time at 5 on 5 with Giroux over Couturier. Over the past 2 years he's played more with Giroux at 5 on 5 to the extent of 975 to 387. He hasn't had one full season where Couturier was his primary center. His break out this year came playing mostly with Claude Giroux.

The Flyers do however produce more when Schenn is with Couturier than Giroux at 5v5... which makes it less likely Schenn breakout was simply due to playing more with Giroux:

15-16:

2.51 GF/60 with Couturier
2.49 GF/60 with Giroux

2014-15:

2.44 GF/60 with Couturier
1.35 GF/60 with Giroux


They do really complement each other well (Couts and Schenn... they did in AHL too)... in 14-15 especially Schenn had real trouble playing with Giroux... did not look right either, he was never in right position like he was with Couturier.