Confirmed Signing with Link: [PHI] Brayden Schenn (4 years, $5.125M AAV)

[Rebels57]

His greatest intangible is jumping into hits

My fries could use your salt.

 

[Striiker]

1 50 point season.
The scoring hasn't been there.

He's improved his scoring every single year and this past year he played great and put up 59 points.

Even before this year he had two 40+ point seasons so it's not like this came out of nowhere.

I get what you're trying to do, but reality is against you so you might as well give up.

 

[Classicnamesup]

To settle the linemate argument

20.55% EV GIROUX,CLAUDE - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - SIMMONDS,WAYNE
13.57% EV GIROUX,CLAUDE - RAFFL,MICHAEL - SCHENN,BRAYDEN
11.82% PP GIROUX,CLAUDE - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - SIMMONDS,WAYNE - VORACEK,JAKUB
7.44% EV COUTURIER,SEAN - RAFFL,MICHAEL - SCHENN,BRAYDEN
5.24% EV GIROUX,CLAUDE - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - VORACEK,JAKUB

PP GIROUX,CLAUDE - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - SIMMONDS,WAYNE - VORACEK,JAKUB 14
EV GIROUX,CLAUDE - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - SIMMONDS,WAYNE 13
EV GIROUX,CLAUDE - RAFFL,MICHAEL - SCHENN,BRAYDEN 6
EV COUTURIER,SEAN - RAFFL,MICHAEL - SCHENN,BRAYDEN 4
EV GAGNER,SAM - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - SIMMONDS,WAYNE 3
EV COUTURIER,SEAN - GAGNER,SAM - SCHENN,BRAYDEN 3
PP GIROUX,CLAUDE - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - SIMMONDS,WAYNE 3

Clearly he wasn't playing mostly with Couturier

 

[Rebels57]

He's improved his scoring every single year and this past year he played great and put up 59 points.

Even before this year he had two 40+ point seasons so it's not like this came out of nowhere.

I get what you're trying to do, but reality is against you so you might as well give up.

Wait so a young forward is showing steady improvement each season? Theres a novel concept.

Dont waste your breath. Not everyone is reasonable..

 

[ottawa]

Not great but not bad, perfectly fair.

 

[The Madrigal]

Good move for the Flyers. I thought Schenn would get 5 or 6 years and around 5.5 million on the AAV. It's too bad for the Flyers that Hextall didn't negotiate this hard with Jake Voracek last year.

As far as the Kadri/Schenn argument goes. As a Leafs fan, I don't see the relevance in that argument. Those are two totally different players who play different positions. If you look at the contracts that other comparable RFA wingers got this summer (Reilly Smith, Jaden Schwartz, Chris Kreider, Kyle Palmieri) Schenn slots right in where he belongs.

 

[Phillyfan28]

Schenn is also indestructible, so that's a +. I hear he's made of rubber but unconfirmed for now.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Schenn is also indestructible, so that's a +. I hear he's made of rubber but unconfirmed for now.

I heard he hits so hard he can break diamond
I also heard Kadri butt isn't made of diamond


Would flyer fans prefer a longer more expensive term or this one.

Let's say 5.8 for 6 years?

 

[flyersfan018]

To settle the linemate argument

20.55% EV GIROUX,CLAUDE - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - SIMMONDS,WAYNE
13.57% EV GIROUX,CLAUDE - RAFFL,MICHAEL - SCHENN,BRAYDEN
11.82% PP GIROUX,CLAUDE - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - SIMMONDS,WAYNE - VORACEK,JAKUB
7.44% EV COUTURIER,SEAN - RAFFL,MICHAEL - SCHENN,BRAYDEN
5.24% EV GIROUX,CLAUDE - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - VORACEK,JAKUB

PP GIROUX,CLAUDE - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - SIMMONDS,WAYNE - VORACEK,JAKUB 14
EV GIROUX,CLAUDE - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - SIMMONDS,WAYNE 13
EV GIROUX,CLAUDE - RAFFL,MICHAEL - SCHENN,BRAYDEN 6
EV COUTURIER,SEAN - RAFFL,MICHAEL - SCHENN,BRAYDEN 4
EV GAGNER,SAM - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - SIMMONDS,WAYNE 3
EV COUTURIER,SEAN - GAGNER,SAM - SCHENN,BRAYDEN 3
PP GIROUX,CLAUDE - SCHENN,BRAYDEN - SIMMONDS,WAYNE 3

Clearly he wasn't playing mostly with Couturier

This was established 50 posts ago...

 

[mja]

You flat out said he generally plays with Couturier. That is flat out incorrect for the last two years. Talk all you want about how much you watch, but its wrong, and isn't correct. He moved around, but over the last two years 46% of his icetime at 5 on 5 is with Giroux and played 19% with Couturier. Unless you have a very different definition of the word generally, you are flat out incorrect. Schenn has the 2nd most minutes of anyone on the Flyers with Giroux at 5 on 5 in the last 2 years behind only Voracek, and the difference between them this year was 4 minutes. Simmonds actually got less minutes than either of them at 5 on 5, but by a small margin. So while Schenn may not be permanetly on Giroux's wing, he is far from a main stay on Couturier's wing. These aren't up for interpretation, they are flat out statistics. And unless you think generally means significantly less than 50% than there is no common ground.

We're basically having a semantic debate over the word generally. You not wrongly took it took it to mean who he spent the most time with, while I was trying to express a different sentiment altogether. Let me rephrase.

Schenn is not Giroux's permanent winger, it's not like he scored 59 points as a fixture on the first line, which could be a lazy assumption one would make looking at stats on a website. He's bounced around the line-up for years, much of it with Giroux, but 2 years ago Raffl & Voracek had far more time with Giroux and last year Simmonds had more time. Schenn's actually not really had a permanent home on a line or with a given center. He's played all three forward positions and every top 9 spot at least for one game except probably 3rd line LW.

However, when everyone was healthy, by the end of last season, Couturier & Schenn became a thing. A very good thing. A thing that Flyers fans expect to continue in October. That's what I mean when I say Couturier is generally Schenn's center. That's the guy by the end of last year and hopefully moving forward that he lines up next to, that he finally has a set position and line and we finally have a set second line.

Read, Raffl, Simmonds and even Umburger played more with Couturier at 5 on 5 in the last two years. This year Raffl, Read and Simmonds again played more with him than Schenn.

I actually pointed out that Couturier and Schenn frustratingly weren't given much of a shot together until this past season in the wall of text you're replied to, but I can see how you missed that given the wall of text.

 

[93LEAFS]

We're basically having a semantic debate over the word generally. You not wrongly took it took it to mean who he spent the most time with, while I was trying to express a different sentiment altogether. Let me rephrase.

Schenn is not Giroux's permanent winger, it's not like he scored 59 points as a fixture on the first line, which could be a lazy assumption one would make looking at stats on a website. He's bounced around the line-up for years, much of it with Giroux, but 2 years ago Raffl & Voracek had far more time with Giroux and last year Simmonds had more time. Schenn's actually not really had a permanent home on a line or with a given center. He's played all three forward positions and every top 9 spot at least for one game except probably 3rd line LW.

However, when everyone was healthy, by the end of last season, Couturier & Schenn became a thing. A very good thing. A thing that Flyers fans expect to continue in October. That's what I mean when I say Couturier is generally Schenn's center. That's the guy by the end of last year and hopefully moving forward that he lines up next to, that he finally has a set position and line and we finally have a set second line.



I actually pointed out that Couturier and Schenn frustratingly weren't given much of a shot together until this past season in the wall of text you're replied to, but I can see how you missed that given the wall of text.

Okay, makes sense. I can see why he's penciled in there. Personally, I think Couturier is on the verge of a breakout where he cements himself as one of the better 2nd line centers in the league. Him and Schenn have the makings of an ideal 2nd line due to their responsible two-way play and competent offensive games.

Edit: If Couturier can become a bit better scorer like he showed flashes of he can be the perfect number 2 center for a team. To put it in perspective, the guys who I've always thought were the model for an ideal 2nd line center (Not a legit star being knocked down like Malkin) was Brind'Amour or more recently Ryan Kesler.

 

[Magua]

Okay, makes sense. I can see why he's penciled in there. Personally, I think Couturier is on the verge of a breakout where he cements himself as one of the better 2nd line centers in the league. Him and Schenn have the makings of an ideal 2nd line due to their responsible two-way play and competent offensive games.

Edit: If Couturier can become a bit better scorer like he showed flashes of he can be the perfect number 2 center for a team. To put it in perspective, the guys who I've always thought were the model for an ideal 2nd line center (Not a legit star being knocked down like Malkin) was Brind'Amour or more recently Ryan Kesler.

It already happened this year. Team had a rough first month, then he got concussed by Rinaldo, but by mid-late November, he scored at an ~65 point pace the rest of year. If he could've not gotten injured a couple times, I wouldn't have blinked at a Selke nom. His underlying metrics were off the charts. Finished the year as their best ES point producer/per game, their best possession player (all while taking on, quite literally, among the hardest minutes in the NHL -- Bergeron level), and of course their best PK'er. The Flyers second PP unit, which he helps anchor, consists of such dreck it's sad. It depresses his points, and yet he still managed to score at a great rate driven by his ES scoring. The PP2 is going to get a whole lot better in the next year or two. Provorov and a healthy Streit QBing it could be a start.

As for Schenn, he's actually a mediocre two-way player. He's not poor, but he is certainly far from good in that regard. Couturier and Giroux have to do some of the lifting for him.

 

[Accelleratii]

I heard he hits so hard he can break diamond
I also heard Kadri butt isn't made of diamond


Would flyer fans prefer a longer more expensive term or this one.

Let's say 5.8 for 6 years?

No. I'm not entirely sold. He ran around trying to hit everything that moved and got the brunt of it more than a few times. That's not a sustainable style of play. Time will tell though. I was hoping 4.5-4.8 range, 3 years. Not bad but not great deal.

 

[Tripod]

Yup...Couts could be a steal in some fantasy drafts this year picking him late.

From Nov 28th to end of the year....46 games...had 35 points....so a 62 point pace.

All it took was going from ReD and Umberger as his wingers to actual top 6 players. But he was even producing with Gagner and Raffl as well.

 

[Hockeypete49]

You lost me at hello

 

[Hockeypete49]

Schenn is so underrated, even by Flyer fans IMO. He's never lived up to his hype from the WJ's, but he's such a useful player. Really solid signing.

Those Western Canadian boys are tough as nails. Brayden will relish the role as a team mate who can be relied on in key situations and will lead by example both on and off the ice. Also he respects the unwritten "code" of hockey. One example was when he made a late hit vs the caps he knew he had to face the music. The very next game he was challenged by T.J. Oshie and answered the call. And while he is not a heavy weight by any means, he showed the NHL that he can handle him self very well. I still get up set when I see the old replay of Tie Domi being a punk and running from Luke Richardson and all the while he was still trying to cheap shot our goalie.

 

[Gsus]

If Schenn drops down to the 2nd line LW to play on Couturier's line, Who would most Philly fans place at 1st line LW.

My choice to play 1st line LW would be left handed shot Jake Voracek.

I think Voracek is better in right, but he isn't that bad in left is he? If Voracek plays left, that would maybe open a spot for Konecny with G and Jake.

Voracek - Giroux - Konecny/Sim
Schenn - Coots - Simmonds/TK

 

[TT1]

You lost me at hello

HERO charts are meaningless, that being said they overpaid Scheen.

Gallagher and him are the same age, look at both of their contracts (we also bought a few of Gally's UFA years).. i don't think any knowledgeable hockey fan thinks that Schenn is better than Gally.

 

[Curufinwe]

HERO charts are meaningless, that being said they overpaid Scheen.

Gallagher and him are the same age, look at both of their contracts (we also bought a few of Gally's UFA years).. i don't think any knowledgeable hockey fan thinks that Schenn is better than Gally.

Gallagher skipped the bridge deal.

 

[DaftCaptain]

I think Voracek is better in right, but he isn't that bad in left is he? If Voracek plays left, that would maybe open a spot for Konecny with G and Jake.

Voracek - Giroux - Konecny/Sim
Schenn - Coots - Simmonds/TK

I thinking it will more like this

Vesey - Giroux - Voracek
Schenn - Coots - Simmonds

 

[StoneHands]

What's funny is that this labels Kadri as a 1st line center despite the fact that he's been a 2nd line center on a terrible team and then it lists Schenn as a 2nd line winger despite the fact that he's a 1st line winger on a playoff team.

When in doubt claim "Intangibles".
Scoring is in the toilet. You need to score in today's NHL.

Schenn had 59 points last season. Only 40 forwards scored more than that and puts him comfortably in the top half of 1st line production. It doesn't get more tangible than that. Kadri had 45 points last season. 103 forwards had more points than him and makes him a solid 2nd liner.

If you'd like to go back to the year before, it only looks worse for Kadri.

1 50 point season.
The scoring hasn't been there.

53 point average over the last 2 years. Both years he provided first line production. It's there, you're just not looking.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

HERO charts are meaningless, that being said they overpaid Scheen.

Gallagher and him are the same age, look at both of their contracts (we also bought a few of Gally's UFA years).. i don't think any knowledgeable hockey fan thinks that Schenn is better than Gally.

That's great. Your team is awesome at cap management. And relying solely on your goalie to make the playoffs.

 

[Striiker]

HERO charts are meaningless, that being said they overpaid Scheen.

Gallagher and him are the same age, look at both of their contracts (we also bought a few of Gally's UFA years).. i don't think any knowledgeable hockey fan thinks that Schenn is better than Gally.

Schenn isn't overpaid, Gallagher is underpaid. He took less money because he wanted more years.

"It's never about the money. The most important thing for me was getting the six years," said Gallagher.

https://www.nhl.com/news/montreal-c...er-signs-six-year-contract-extension/c-741627

$5.125m is what Schenn's worth, in fact if he has a season as productive as last year then Schenn will be underpaid too. As long as he's scoring between 50 and 60 points this is a fair deal.

 

[Curufinwe]

Schenn is getting 2 x $2.5m + 4 x $5.125m = $25.5m for the six seasons after his ELC.

Gallagher is getting 6 x $3.75m = $22.5m for the six seasons after his ELC. That's only $500K less per year, which is not a huge difference.

 

[Tripod]

HERO charts are meaningless, that being said they overpaid Scheen.

Gallagher and him are the same age, look at both of their contracts (we also bought a few of Gally's UFA years).. i don't think any knowledgeable hockey fan thinks that Schenn is better than Gally.

You are comparing a contract that was signed 2 years ago, skipped the bridge deal, and coming off a 41 point season.

Schenn HAD his bridge deal already and is coming off a 59 point season and the league cap went up. It's no comparison.

Just like someone can't compare Simmonds at 3.975 to Schenn.

The market was set in the summer. When Reilly Smith got 5 years and 5 million, Schenn was not getting below that. And with Schwartz getting 5.35, he was not getting more than that.

It's really that simple.