Peterborough Petes 2023-24 Season Thread (Part Two)

[Section7fan]

You are looking at this too closely. You need to step back a few feet and look at the big picture.

First, I made a mistake. For some reason I thought Miedema was one year older. That is on me. But, Wright was arguably the most impactful player available last year. Personally, you and I are on the same page in that respect. I didn’t think he would be as impactful as he ended up being (2 points per game). I thought, like you, that he didn’t want to be here and that would affect his production negatively.

That said, in a league full of teams looking to get much better, the return should not have included a potential unsigned player. You’d think with a players like DelBelBelluz and DelMaestro, that Wright would have gone for more. I would argue that Mintyukov for none picks was a heavier package than the wright package even though it involved no bodies.

When you look at that Wright deal, if Miedema was to be used, the picks package should have been heavier. That draft was a crap shoot Covid draft. Loads of busts in the first couple rounds. Draft position was meaningless for the most part. By the deadline last year, that was very evident.

With respect to my comment that you replied to, I was talking more about the average 17 year old and picks being the more likely return. Would you support that return as much as you‘ve suggested it 100% needs to be a 16 year old? I’m not talking about the unsigned player being added in place of added draft picks. That particular twist was the outlier. I cannot see a situation where Beck returns a 17 year old, a handful of mildly ok picks and an unsigned player with considerable upside.

As @frontsfan67 suggested, what if the deal for Beck and Mayer is Walton, Toure and a basket of good picks? Is that a deal you would support in the same manner as the Wright deal? That is more the question.

I think most people can step back and understand there was more to the Wright deal that lead to it being what it was.

I can look at it and and defend it slightly more because of how Kingston’s roster is set up. Fairly strong group of 2005 born players and they had a bid in to host the Memorial Cup. Accepting a good 17 year old in that scenario is easier because he fits their next window better and Miedema was looking really strong at the deadline. Either way the return was low.

The Petes traded their top 06 and didn’t have picks in the 2nd or 3rd round of that draft. MaCallum is the only player with decent potential in that group. It’s looking like the Petes May end up with a lottery pick this year and it looks like they got a good player in Cameron. It doesn’t fit with the rebuild to go after an 06 especially when this is their only chance to sell anything off because there’s nothing to sell next year.

It’s obvious you think Beck is a lower level player. I think he’s the best player available at the deadline. We differ in opinion and nothing either one of can say to change that. It seems like fans still think the Petes have Dave Reid at the helm giving star players away for scraps, but Oke has changed that narrative. It’s getting pretty old listen to people constantly sh*tting on Petes players.

 

[OMG67]

I think most people can step back and understand there was more to the Wright deal that lead to it being what it was.

I can look at it and and defend it slightly more because of how Kingston’s roster is set up. Fairly strong group of 2005 born players and they had a bid in to host the Memorial Cup. Accepting a good 17 year old in that scenario is easier because he fits their next window better and Miedema was looking really strong at the deadline. Either way the return was low.

The Petes traded their top 06 and didn’t have picks in the 2nd or 3rd round of that draft. MaCallum is the only player with decent potential in that group. It’s looking like the Petes May end up with a lottery pick this year and it looks like they got a good player in Cameron. It doesn’t fit with the rebuild to go after an 06 especially when this is their only chance to sell anything off because there’s nothing to sell next year.

It’s obvious you think Beck is a lower level player. I think he’s the best player available at the deadline. We differ in opinion and nothing either one of can say to change that. It seems like fans still think the Petes have Dave Reid at the helm giving star players away for scraps, but Oke has changed that narrative. It’s getting pretty old listen to people constantly sh*tting on Petes players.

Beck may be the best forward available. I don’t think I can craft an argument that he is not the best forward available. Where we disagree is the degree to which he is above the next best player available.

It is tough to tell who is available right now so this argument may be somewhat presumptuous but I think the difference between Beck and Ludwinski is minimal. Two players picked 6 picks apart In 2022. Both are centres. Both play a solid 200 foot game. Neither are particularly big but both have an element of physicality to their game. Neither are pure offence so their impact in that respect is balanced against their 200 foot game.

Beck is much better in the faceoff circle. That is the biggest difference. There may be some arguments that could be made about their different leadership styles but that is much dependent on the culture of the team. Beck has a Championship so there is that been there, done that element to Beck.

But, the point is if you are acquiring a player for 5 months, the difference between Beck and Ludwinski isn’t to the degree that 98% of the talk and emphasis is on Beck and virtually zero emphasis is on Ludwinski. If the Petes sit back and demand the World for Beck, teams will shift focus to Ludwinski and still feel very good about the Plan B.

If you shift back to last year, there were a handful of players available that all had a significant impact in their own way. Morrison, Mintyukov, Wright, Beck, and DelMaestro all had a claim as the most impactful player available. I believe that Beck and Ludwinski are in the same situation as those players last year. It doesn’t look likely that NB will sell but if they did, I would add Nelson to that pair as well. The point is, there are viable options out there.

I don’t feel the conversation starts and ends with Beck. That is much different than saying he isn’t all that valuable. That is not what I am saying. IMO, Beck isn’t head and shoulders enough for the Petes to walk into the SSM offices and demand Brady Martin and SSM just rolls over and makes that deal because Beck is some sort of unicorn. It is that sort of mentality and vibe I am getting from a lot of the comments. It needs to be scaled back a bit and be looked at more realistically.

Beck is an average star player available at this deadline. His value may rise in comparison to other players from the past if the volume of available players is more limited and the number of teams engaging is high but we really don’t know that yet. We assume there are a lack of sellers and a big group of buyers but that doesn’t mean the buyers are highly committed enough to enter into that stratosphere of commitment. If the market gets out of control, I can guarantee you that a couple “buyers” or “nibblers” will shift gears and sell at high prices and take advantage of that market and drive the prices back down to more realistic levels.

 

[frontsfan67]

I don’t want to speak for @Section7fan but I share much of his skepticism. Clearly he was upset with his draft position. Clearly he was upset he wasn’t performing to expectations with Seattle and clearly the AHL was a better development league for him at his stage of development. Coming back to Junior was almost a waste of his time. How he would approach it was something that was an honest question. When it comes to tossing a ton of assets to acquire him, that is a question that really needed to be answered. We as fans don’t have the luxury of that conversation prior to trade. So, we are in speculation mode.

Probably wasn’t the happiest coming back but he still did and performed amazingly despite injuries that have plagued his young career thus far. had a good showing, good effort and was a good role model for Windsor and their young players. Was a true pro. Look at greentrees production pre wright and then with wright- that’s all you gotta see. If only he was healthy.

I think most people can step back and understand there was more to the Wright deal that lead to it being what it was.

I can look at it and and defend it slightly more because of how Kingston’s roster is set up. Fairly strong group of 2005 born players and they had a bid in to host the Memorial Cup. Accepting a good 17 year old in that scenario is easier because he fits their next window better and Miedema was looking really strong at the deadline. Either way the return was low.

The Petes traded their top 06 and didn’t have picks in the 2nd or 3rd round of that draft. MaCallum is the only player with decent potential in that group. It’s looking like the Petes May end up with a lottery pick this year and it looks like they got a good player in Cameron. It doesn’t fit with the rebuild to go after an 06 especially when this is their only chance to sell anything off because there’s nothing to sell next year.

It’s obvious you think Beck is a lower level player. I think he’s the best player available at the deadline. We differ in opinion and nothing either one of can say to change that. It seems like fans still think the Petes have Dave Reid at the helm giving star players away for scraps, but Oke has changed that narrative. It’s getting pretty old listen to people constantly sh*tting on Petes players.

Beck is a great player. Might be the best player available at this deadline but don’t compare him to wright lol. He is not wright.

 

[dirty12]

It really is unfortunate he wasn’t 100%. I would like to have seen a fully committed and healthy Wright in the playoffs. Hats off from my perspective as well.

I don’t think it was a lack of commitment, Wright did produce 15 goals, 22 assists in 20 games.

while Kingston may have erred in holding out for a RD, the eventual return of Mediema, prospect, 2, 3, 4, 4, 6 plus two picks with unknown to me conditions for Wright was not at all low. There is real chance Mediema who fit Kingston’s window perfectly at a position of greater need than C, RW, & LD ends up better for Kingston than JVV and Desoete for Mississauga

 

[Newbie Observer]

Dont forget the no trade clauses in the players deals. This may have more impact than what a team can offer and who goes where ultimately.

 

[Section7fan]

Probably wasn’t the happiest coming back but he still did and performed amazingly despite injuries that have plagued his young career thus far. had a good showing, good effort and was a good role model for Windsor and their young players. Was a true pro. Look at greentrees production pre wright and then with wright- that’s all you gotta see. If only he was healthy.


Beck is a great player. Might be the best player available at this deadline but don’t compare him to wright lol. He is not wright.

Because Wright is setting the world on fire in the uh…. AHL right? Sorry but he’s not the generational talent Fronts fans have claimed.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

I think most people can step back and understand there was more to the Wright deal that lead to it being what it was.

I can look at it and and defend it slightly more because of how Kingston’s roster is set up. Fairly strong group of 2005 born players and they had a bid in to host the Memorial Cup. Accepting a good 17 year old in that scenario is easier because he fits their next window better and Miedema was looking really strong at the deadline. Either way the return was low.

The Petes traded their top 06 and didn’t have picks in the 2nd or 3rd round of that draft. MaCallum is the only player with decent potential in that group. It’s looking like the Petes May end up with a lottery pick this year and it looks like they got a good player in Cameron. It doesn’t fit with the rebuild to go after an 06 especially when this is their only chance to sell anything off because there’s nothing to sell next year.

It’s obvious you think Beck is a lower level player. I think he’s the best player available at the deadline. We differ in opinion and nothing either one of can say to change that. It seems like fans still think the Petes have Dave Reid at the helm giving star players away for scraps, but Oke has changed that narrative. It’s getting pretty old listen to people constantly sh*tting on Petes players.

Best player at the deadline may be true but the level that Beck is at isn’t the same as previous big fish….

Because Wright is setting the world on fire in the uh…. AHL right? Sorry but he’s not the generational talent Fronts fans have claimed.

You know this now but not at the time of the trade? Kind of irrelevant

 

[bobber]

Every year at the deadline there are one or two players considered to be the so called "big fish". Last year it was Wright. This year at least on these threads it's Beck. We are all usually surprised at the assets thrown out for certain players. Fans of contending teams want their bread and eat it too as they say. We are all the same and aren't willing to part with first round picks or even skilled second year players that might make an impact in this league going forward. No matter how much some are trying to diminish Beck's value he will garner a lot of assets. Beck must be considered a great two way player to make team Canada again. These types are coveted by contending teams and pay dividends in the play offs. Beck may have a list of teams he will play for and throw a monkey wrench into the mix.

 

[Section7fan]

Best player at the deadline may be true but the level that Beck is at isn’t the same as previous big fish….



You know this now but not at the time of the trade? Kind of irrelevant

That’s YOUR opinion. It doesn’t matter what fans think it matters what GMs think.

 

[Section7fan]

Every year at the deadline there are one or two players considered to be the so called "big fish". Last year it was Wright. This year at least on these threads it's Beck. We are all usually surprised at the assets thrown out for certain players. Fans of contending teams want their bread and eat it too as they say. We are all the same and aren't willing to part with first round picks or even skilled second year players that might make an impact in this league going forward. No matter how much some are trying to diminish Beck's value he will garner a lot of assets. Beck must be considered a great two way player to make team Canada again. These types are coveted by contending teams and pay dividends in the play offs. Beck may have a list of teams he will play for and throw a monkey wrench into the mix.

Beck was a second round pick so he wouldn’t have NTC. But I’m sure some will let Beck have some say.

 

[bobber]

Beck was a second round pick so he wouldn’t have NTC. But I’m sure some will let Beck have some say.

I think NTC only applies to players still in high school does it not? Any how I think your correct Beck would likely be given a choice of where he would want to be traded in some fashion.

 

[Section7fan]

I think NTC only applies to players still in high school does it not? Any how I think your correct Beck would likely be given a choice of where he would want to be traded in some fashion.

I always thought it was just first round picks that got NTC. I could be wrong.

 

[ohloutsider]

I always thought it was just first round picks that got NTC. I could be wrong.

High school
First round picks
Any player that negotiations one ( usually USA players that drop Ncaa opportunities)
Some imports and imports in their first year. Imports in their 1st can be traded but they have to be willing to waive their NTC.

 

[OMG67]

I don’t think it was a lack of commitment, Wright did produce 15 goals, 22 assists in 20 games.

while Kingston may have erred in holding out for a RD, the eventual return of Mediema, prospect, 2, 3, 4, 4, 6 plus two picks with unknown to me conditions for Wright was not at all low. There is real chance Mediema who fit Kingston’s window perfectly at a position of greater need than C, RW, & LD ends up better for Kingston than JVV and Desoete for Mississauga

I agree. I go back to the thought that for some reason I thought Miedema was an 18 year old when he was traded. This whole time I had thought that. Him being a 17 year old makes the difference.

I still think extra draft picks would have been better but Windsor didn’t have them. They pretty much cleared the remainder of their closet with that deal so there really was no other option.

 

[OMG67]

Because Wright is setting the world on fire in the uh…. AHL right? Sorry but he’s not the generational talent Fronts fans have claimed.

I think when we are evaluating, you need to take the stance of how good the player is now in the OHL, not so much what their professional prospect ranking is. So many get caught up in the NHL draft position and professional expectations. There are a lot of great OHL players that never even turn pro.

Wright was an Exceptional Status player that lost a pivotal year to Covid. HE experienced a few injuries that hampered him late in his OHL career. Yet, he still did go top 5 in the NHL Draft. He is no Sidney Crosby or Auston Matthews or Connor McDavid. But, as an OHL player, he was still elite.

As much as he left me wanting more, I still respect the fact he did manage to leave a strong mark on the league.

 

[frontsfan67]

Because Wright is setting the world on fire in the uh…. AHL right? Sorry but he’s not the generational talent Fronts fans have claimed.

Nobody ever claimed he was generational lol

Close to a ppg in the ahl is great as a 19 year old 2 way player. Keep hating lol.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

Nobody ever claimed he was generational lol

Close to a ppg in the ahl is great as a 19 year old 2 way player. Keep hating lol.

This guy doesn’t want to lose Owen Beck. We get it.

 

[cleodog]

Blast from not so distant past. Watching johnathan ang at the Spengler cup.

 

[Section7fan]

Nobody ever claimed he was generational lol

Close to a ppg in the ahl is great as a 19 year old 2 way player. Keep hating lol.

There absolutely was kingston fans on here calling him generational in the past. I believe it was a fan arguing that Wright was better than McTavish. Couple years ago before he was drafted. I assume it was a different HF poster.

Do it in the NHL and I’ll be impressed.

 

[Section7fan]

This guy doesn’t want to lose Owen Beck. We get it.

Lmao. Rebuild needs to start. There’s a banner to look at to remind me of his time here.

 

[frontsfan67]

There absolutely was kingston fans on here calling him generational in the past. I believe it was a fan arguing that Wright was better than McTavish. Couple years ago before he was drafted. I assume it was a different HF poster.

Do it in the NHL and I’ll be impressed.

Ohl and nhl are completely different and wright is still 19 as was mctavish when he made the nhl I believe. Compare in 5 years. whoever said he’s generational isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed. There’s only been 4 since ovi and Crosby came into the league. Them 2, McDavid and bedard that are exceptional. Wright was always great at everything but never excellent or “exceptional” at anything. Where guys like bedard and McDavid have many things going for them

 

[dirty12]

Ohl and nhl are completely different and wright is still 19 as was mctavish when he made the nhl I believe. Compare in 5 years. whoever said he’s generational isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed. There’s only been 4 since ovi and Crosby came into the league. Them 2, McDavid and bedard that are exceptional. Wright was always great at everything but never excellent or “exceptional” at anything. Where guys like bedard and McDavid have many things going for them

Wright’s 15 yr old season was exceptional; he was ahead of McDavid’s point pace and equal to Tavares’ goal scoring pace when the league was shut down by COVID

 

[Section7fan]

Ohl and nhl are completely different and wright is still 19 as was mctavish when he made the nhl I believe. Compare in 5 years. whoever said he’s generational isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed. There’s only been 4 since ovi and Crosby came into the league. Them 2, McDavid and bedard that are exceptional. Wright was always great at everything but never excellent or “exceptional” at anything. Where guys like bedard and McDavid have many things going for them

He had a stellar first year in the O. Lofty expectations were put on the kid once he got the exceptional status. He had a great OHL career given the obstacles he faced.

It’s probably easier for me to be more critical of the kid because he never played on a team I cheered for. I wish nothing but the best for the kid.

 

[ottsabrefan]

Wright never came back the same to the Fronts after losing his 16 year old COVID season. He was better at 15 than 18. First time I have ever seen that of an exceptional status player.

The kid has had a ton of pressure and a ton of detractors. And lost a critical development year not playing at all (which was a mistake in hindsight). It can’t be easy.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

Lmao. Rebuild needs to start. There’s a banner to look at to remind me of his time here.

Nice. We have a nice banner too.

Wright never came back the same to the Fronts after losing his 16 year old COVID season. He was better at 15 than 18. First time I have ever seen that.

The kid has had a ton of pressure and a ton of detractors. And lost a critical development year not playing at all (which was a mistake in hindsight). It can’t be easy.

Ya I feel bad for Wright to be completely honest