Peter Holland

[ALEXJD93]

all these advanced statisticians around here bro... the funny thing is that most of them probably have never even taken a stats class in their life. Even if it was in question before the grabo buyout, the resigning and grabo buyout made it loud and clear that they were going with bozak for 1c around here.

Fair enough, and you see Grabo outplaying all TML centres in Washington right now, MacArthur doing great in Ottawa too but I bet you still think Clarkson was worth bringing in.... hahaha.... You're right the Leafs don't use adv stats, but guess what... CHI do, Kings do, Wild do, Sharks do amongst other teams. Just cause the Leafs don't doesn't make them wrong. Kings GM was even quoted saying he wants to use a moneyball approach, looks like it's turned out pretty well. Not to mention he doesn't pass the eye test for me either, but hey that's just me.

Not to mention, I wouldn't consider myself an adv statistician "bro" being able to read a few different statistics isn't too hard to understand

 

[Mikeyg]

Fair enough, and you see Grabo outplaying all TML centres in Washington right now, MacArthur doing great in Ottawa too but I bet you still think Clarkson was worth bringing in.... hahaha.... You're right the Leafs don't use adv stats, but guess what... CHI do, Kings do, Wild do, Sharks do amongst other teams. Just cause the Leafs don't doesn't make them wrong. Kings GM was even quoted saying he wants to use a moneyball approach, looks like it's turned out pretty well. Not to mention he doesn't pass the eye test for me either, but hey that's just me.

Not to mention, I wouldn't consider myself an adv statistician "bro" being able to read a few different statistics isn't too hard to understand

hahaha, dont ever make statements about me without knowing facts please, its ignorant. I loved MacArthur more then anybody around here. Grabo got his spot taken from him because he got outplayed with kadri, and heres the kicker, going back to a similar theme... they believe that bozak is the 1c, so they go with bozak and kadri, making grabo irrelevant, typical bozak hater comment, absolutely typical.

Guy I just disproved that your stats were even relevant, they are AVOIDING 40% of kessels goals because they DO NOT SUPPORT their claim. Anybody can read a graph, it takes someone with stats knowledge to realize what they have eliminated as outliers to produce these graphs.

 

[ALEXJD93]

I think its hilarious that you put so much emphasis on advanced statistics when even the coaching staff doesnt, randy has said multiple times that he isnt concerned with these advanced statistics, even going back to previous statements, that he doesnt even care about qoc or qot or any of that crap, Its to bad that you werent around last year, would of loved to have heard about what you have to say about grabo... weve been over this a million times, its irrelevant what the people on here think, leafs management believes that bozak is the number 1 and that he has chemistry with phil, its essentially irrelevant that you find 1 advanced statistic that says otherwise, thats why they shipped grabo out and have made it clear that tyler bozak is the 1c of the toronto maple leafs

and LOL that graph is for even strength 5 on 5, this is neglecting the 40% of phil kessels goals that come from the power play, do you see how easy it is to tamper with statistics?

Yeah most adv stats look at 5v5... and you've already said that Kadri is the clearly more skilled C so if theres no defensive worry on the PP you'd want him with Phil and JVR anyways, right? right.

 

[ALEXJD93]

hahaha, dont ever make statements about me without knowing facts please, its ignorant. I loved MacArthur more then anybody around here. Grabo got his spot taken from him because he got outplayed with kadri, and heres the kicker, going back to a similar theme... they believe that bozak is the 1c, so they go with bozak and kadri, making grabo irrelevant, typical bozak hater comment, absolutely typical.

Guy I just disproved that your stats were even relevant, they are AVOIDING 40% of kessels goals because they DO NOT SUPPORT their claim. Anybody can read a graph, it takes someone with stats knowledge to realize what they have eliminated as outliers to produce these graphs.

REFER TO MY OTHER POST TO DESTROY YOUR IGNORANT COMMENT ABOUT THE PP, you know nothing of adv stats yet have the nerve to call me ignorant? you mentioned competition factoring in earlier yet you don't take into account that GRABO had the toughest competition every night and KADRI got the softest comps, it didn't come down to GRABO/KADRI it was GRABO/BOZAK and they clearly made the wrong decision by the way Grabovski is playing now

I get that THEY picked Bozak, but your main point is a call to authority? really? THATS IT EH? So basically what is was, was Carlyle didn't like grabo, so if every decision ever made by any nhl coach is a good decision, then yeah, guess your right..

 

[William Hylander]

I think its hilarious that you put so much emphasis on advanced statistics when even the coaching staff doesnt, randy has said multiple times that he isnt concerned with these advanced statistics, even going back to previous statements, that he doesnt even care about qoc or qot or any of that crap, Its to bad that you werent around last year, would of loved to have heard about what you have to say about grabo... weve been over this a million times, its irrelevant what the people on here think, leafs management believes that bozak is the number 1 and that he has chemistry with phil, its essentially irrelevant that you find 1 advanced statistic that says otherwise, thats why they shipped grabo out and have made it clear that tyler bozak is the 1c of the toronto maple leafs

and LOL that graph is for even strength 5 on 5, this is neglecting the 40% of phil kessels goals that come from the power play, do you see how easy it is to tamper with statistics?

Just because Carlyle does things one way, does not automatically make it correct. I have some sub prime mortgage securities to sell you if you believe that a professional is always correct.

 

[Mikeyg]

Yeah most adv stats look at 5v5... and you've already said that Kadri is the clearly more skilled C so if theres no defensive worry on the PP you'd want him with Phil and JVR anyways, right? right.

Because they believe that bozak has chemistry with him, its the same damn story every time. Why stop there? why doesnt kadri shoot in the shootout? because they think that other players can do a better job, thats all it comes down to, they feel that the most efficient way to utilize their players is by putting bozak at 1c, thats not debatable because that is exactly whats happening

 

[The Winter Soldier]

REFER TO MY OTHER POST TO DESTROY YOUR IGNORANT COMMENT ABOUT THE PP, you know nothing of adv stats yet have the nerve to call me ignorant? you mentioned competition factoring in earlier yet you don't take into account that GRABO had the toughest competition every night and KADRI got the softest comps, it didn't come down to GRABO/KADRI it was GRABO/BOZAK and they clearly made the wrong decision by the way Grabovski is playing now

I get that THEY picked Bozak, but your main point is a call to authority? really? THATS IT EH? So basically what is was, was Carlyle didn't like grabo, so if every decision ever made by any nhl coach is a good decision, then yeah, guess your right..

Nothing makes a point more than using CAPS.

 

[Mikeyg]

REFER TO MY OTHER POST TO DESTROY YOUR IGNORANT COMMENT ABOUT THE PP, you know nothing of adv stats yet have the nerve to call me ignorant? you mentioned competition factoring in earlier yet you don't take into account that GRABO had the toughest competition every night and KADRI got the softest comps, it didn't come down to GRABO/KADRI it was GRABO/BOZAK and they clearly made the wrong decision by the way Grabovski is playing now

I get that THEY picked Bozak, but your main point is a call to authority? really? THATS IT EH? So basically what is was, was Carlyle didn't like grabo, so if every decision ever made by any nhl coach is a good decision, then yeah, guess your right..

calm down guy, grabo's gone, this is the peter holland thread.

 

[Banic]

Cause he is more of a playmaker with Bozak on ice, if you think Bozak is a better defensive player than he should be on a shutdown line, Holland can provide offense in a soft role like Kadri got last year

You don't put defensive players only on a shutdown line, you need to spread them throughout your lineup for balance and so an offensive line isn't a defensive liability.

 

[Mikeyg]

Just because Carlyle does things one way, does not automatically make it correct. I have some sub prime mortgage securities to sell you if you believe that a professional is always correct.

sure, but randys opinion is the only thing thats going to get translated into what we actually see on the ice

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Just because Carlyle does things one way, does not automatically make it correct. I have some sub prime mortgage securities to sell you if you believe that a professional is always correct.

Conversely it doesn't make it incorrect either. Carlyle has won a Cup and has won 322 games in the NHL. Don't think anyone posting here has his coaching record or a cup so I will side with the Coach on his decisions here, until if he shows us he is as terrible a coach as Ron Wilson was.

 

[ALEXJD93]

hahaha, dont ever make statements about me without knowing facts please, its ignorant. I loved MacArthur more then anybody around here. Grabo got his spot taken from him because he got outplayed with kadri, and heres the kicker, going back to a similar theme... they believe that bozak is the 1c, so they go with bozak and kadri, making grabo irrelevant, typical bozak hater comment, absolutely typical.

Guy I just disproved that your stats were even relevant, they are AVOIDING 40% of kessels goals because they DO NOT SUPPORT their claim. Anybody can read a graph, it takes someone with stats knowledge to realize what they have eliminated as outliers to produce these graphs.

Only 29% of Kessels goals have been scored on the PP as a leaf, but nice made up stat

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Cause he is more of a playmaker with Bozak on ice, if you think Bozak is a better defensive player than he should be on a shutdown line, Holland can provide offense in a soft role like Kadri got last year

Kessel is a better playmaker than Kadri, what's your point?

 

[ALEXJD93]

Conversely it doesn't make it incorrect either. Carlyle has won a Cup and has won 322 games in the NHL. Don't think anyone posting here has his coaching record or a cup so I will side with the Coach on his decisions here, until if he shows us he is as terrible a coach as Ron Wilson was.

Thats the funny thing, if wilson had the goaltending they had now the leafs of old would have won more games....

 

[ALEXJD93]

Kessel is a better playmaker than Kadri, what's your point?

No, better than Bozak, follow along here

 

[Mikeyg]

Only 29% of Kessels goals have been scored on the PP as a leaf, but nice made up stat

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/k/kesseph01.html

55/146 = aprox 40%

surely someone with a statistics background would know 29% is relevant regardless

 

[The Winter Soldier]

No, better than Bozak, follow along here

Why does Kessel and JVR need a playmaker? Are they struggling producing? Seems to me they need someone to look after their own end more.

 

[ALEXJD93]

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/k/kesseph01.html

55/146 = aprox 40%

surely someone with a statistics background would know 29% is relevant regardless

It's 41/136 = 30% ****

 

[ALEXJD93]

Why does Kessel and JVR need a playmaker? Are they struggling producing? Seems to me they need someone to look after their own end more.

Would it hurt? No. Kessel's best role is as a scorer, very good when someone is putting the puck of his stick.

 

[Banic]

Why does Kessel and JVR need a playmaker? Are they struggling producing? Seems to me they need someone to look after their own end more.

Agreed.

 

[Banic]

It's 41/136 = 30% ****

Lol surely anyone with an education can do general subtraction eh

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Would it hurt? No. Kessel's best role is as a scorer, very good when someone is putting the puck of his stick.

But why does Kessel and JVR who drive the offence for this line need a playmaker? Kessel's best role is goal scoring? I don't think you have watched Kessel play the past 3 seasons, he's a very good playmaker, the best on the team.

 

[ALEXJD93]

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/k/kesseph01.html

55/146 = aprox 40%

surely someone with a statistics background would know 29% is relevant regardless

Looks like you did his total PP goals in career divided by goals as a leaf (which you got wrong anyways) so... 30% is relevant, but 70% is more relevant, teams who win the 5v5 battles win the game, thats why adv stats use 5v5

 

[Banic]

Would it hurt? No. Kessel's best role is as a scorer, very good when someone is putting the puck of his stick.

Agreed, thank god we have a very skilled winger named JVR

 

[Mikeyg]

It's 41/136 = 30% ****

so career stats arent relevant now either? you have too many rules man. Even if you look at just toronto, as a statistician you would be fired if you voided 30% of the N value, those statistics are GARBAGE because they are irrelevant