Peter Holland

[Banic]

It's difficult to argue with stats that Smith is as good as Bozak because he's never been given a chance on the #1 line. However, Kadri is a different story and undeniably much better than Bozak. Here are Kessel's stats with Kadri vs. Bozak at even strength:

Kadri

GF20 - 1.288
GA20 - 0.716
Differential - 0.572

Bozak

GF20 - 1.067
GA20 - 0.712
Differential - 0.355

Bozak is not this team's 1C. Kadri is.

Which is why some people argue to play Bozak there to have a balanced attack. Kane doesn't play with Toews to my knowledge, you see this all over the league.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Doubt it....when Bozak went down and they started experimenting with players at 1C you could see that Bozak with missed.

Well when JVR moved to C, Kadri,Smithson and McClement were the only centres of course we would miss Bozak but that doesn't make him important to the team as some posters want him to be. He's making 4.2m and he hasn't stayed healthy this season as well as last ,and his faceoff percentage has lowered(46% while last year was 52.6%) , and simply put he just doesn't put up the points to warrant the money. Any team would miss their main centre depth so yes Bozak was missed but hes not what this team needs for the 1st line which is a tired conversation around here for sure.

 

[ALEXJD93]

Literally everything you said in this post is not true. The jvr X kessel line draws top defenders every single night, it doesn't matter who's playing center there, if kadri is on the 2nd or 3rd line, he is NOT drawing the 1st pair defenders, that is absolutely wrong. If you honestly think that smith is better then bozak then you need to give your head a shake, because he is certainly not. I dont know where you get your information from, but bozak has taken 19 more total faceoffs in 7 less games, maybe instead of hating the guy, you should come to terms and accept that he is the 1c for the toronto maple leafs, and smith will stay bottom 6 for virtually his whole career, lets just stick with that premise for now

Listen, you aren't reading what I said correctly, I said when Kadri plays WITH the top line he gets the top defenders and he handles them better than Bozak. KADRI is the 1C for this team, my whole point surrounding Smith is meaningless for me to continue to argue because it doesn't even matter. Also Bozak only has more faceoffs BECAUSE HE HAS MORE ICE TIME, THEY HAVE THE SAME EXACT ZONE% START PERCENTAGE, but please, continue to argue a strawman..

 

[Crispy Crust]

Listen, you aren't reading what I said correctly, I said when Kadri plays WITH the top line he gets the top defenders and he handles them better than Bozak. KADRI is the 1C for this team, my whole point surrounding Smith is meaningless for me to continue to argue because it doesn't even matter. Also Bozak only has more faceoffs BECAUSE HE HAS MORE ICE TIME, THEY HAVE THE SAME EXACT ZONE% START PERCENTAGE, but please, continue to argue a strawman..

Good post.

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

Listen, you aren't reading what I said correctly, I said when Kadri plays WITH the top line he gets the top defenders and he handles them better than Bozak. KADRI is the 1C for this team, my whole point surrounding Smith is meaningless for me to continue to argue because it doesn't even matter. Also Bozak only has more faceoffs BECAUSE HE HAS MORE ICE TIME, THEY HAVE THE SAME EXACT ZONE% START PERCENTAGE, but please, continue to argue a strawman..

Great Post

Honestly, trying to bring logic into a discussion with Mikeyg is pointless. The guy has opinions with holes the size of tunnels.

 

[WilliamNylander]

we really need to look at unloading Bozak

maybe Bozak+Reimer+ for a decent dman and then roll

JVR Kadri Kessel
Lupul Holland Raymond
Kulemin Bolland Clarkson
Ashton McClement D'Amigo

 

[ALEXJD93]

Great Post

Honestly, trying to bring logic into a discussion with Mikeyg is pointless. The guy has opinions with holes the size of tunnels.

Haha good to know, might not even go there next time.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Which is why some people argue to play Bozak there to have a balanced attack. Kane doesn't play with Toews to my knowledge, you see this all over the league.

Exactly. Besides, Kessel looks a bit a lackluster with someone else trying to hog the puck. I could see Holland being the better choice, because what he needs is a big body down the middle. Kadri can center the 1B line with Lupul and whoever.

 

[Crispy Crust]

That's actually hilarious that you think smith is a 1c, note: there are not 2 E'S in argument

Did you even bother reading his post?

 

[Diatomic]

we really need to look at unloading Bozak

maybe Bozak+Reimer+ for a decent dman and then roll

JVR Kadri Kessel
Lupul Holland Raymond
Kulemin Bolland Clarkson
Ashton McClement D'Amigo

I love how your username is Beastly Bozak yet you want to unload that dead weight to give us some financial freedom. Good man, putting his team before a player.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Exactly. Besides, Kessel looks a bit a lackluster with someone else trying to hog the puck. I could see Holland being the better choice, because what he needs is a big body down the middle. Kadri can center the 1B line with Lupul and whoever.

Kessel doesn't need tons of puck time. He is better off with a center with great playmaking who can set him up for breaks on the rush or for one-time snapshots in good scoring position. He is more likely to beat defenders 1-on-1 with speed than dangle through 5 guys like Patrick Kane, and so he doesn't need to be constantly holding on to the puck to be effective.

He also has improved his playmaking quite substantially while with the Leafs and needs a center who can keep up with his skating and finish his passes. You can't always rely on JVR being available on the other wing.

 

[Mikeyg]

It's difficult to argue with stats that Smith is as good as Bozak because he's never been given a chance on the #1 line. However, Kadri is a different story and undeniably much better than Bozak. Here are Kessel's stats with Kadri vs. Bozak at even strength:

Kadri

GF20 - 1.288
GA20 - 0.716
Differential - 0.572

Bozak

GF20 - 1.067
GA20 - 0.712
Differential - 0.355

Bozak is not this team's 1C. Kadri is.

no1 is debating kadri that is the best center on this team, bozak is still the number 1 center, rest assured that when bozak gets back he will play with jvr and phil, theres no need to argue it, because it is what's going to happen regardless. Bozak is this teams number 1 center whether you like it or not, thats all there is too it. For all of you people saying bozaks chemistry with phil isnt worth something, thats wrong because rc obviously believes this to be true. RC is on record saying it time and time again that he believes in the chemistry between the two

Kadri is the BEST most skilled center on the team
bozak plays on the best line, there is nothing to debate

 

[ALEXJD93]

no1 is debating kadri that is the best center on this team, bozak is still the number 1 center, rest assured that when bozak gets back he will play with jvr and phil, theres no need to argue it, because it is what's going to happen regardless. Bozak is this teams number 1 center whether you like it or not, thats all there is too it. For all of you people saying bozaks chemistry with phil isnt worth something, thats wrong because rc obviously believes this to be true. RC is on record saying it time and time again that he believes in the chemistry between the two

Kadri is the BEST most skilled center on the team
bozak plays on the best line, there is nothing to debate

Fair enough, difference between you and I is that I think the team should play their best center with their best wingers, regardless of Randys opinion on their chemistry

 

[Mikeyg]

Listen, you aren't reading what I said correctly, I said when Kadri plays WITH the top line he gets the top defenders and he handles them better than Bozak. KADRI is the 1C for this team, my whole point surrounding Smith is meaningless for me to continue to argue because it doesn't even matter. Also Bozak only has more faceoffs BECAUSE HE HAS MORE ICE TIME, THEY HAVE THE SAME EXACT ZONE% START PERCENTAGE, but please, continue to argue a strawman..

The first line is more productive with bozak on it, theres no question about that, look at the logs. Kadri is not this teams 1c whether you believe he is or not, I assure you that. Kadri is the best most skilled center on this team, but he is not the 1c, its that simple. You need to open your eyes if you still think that smith will even be relevant on this team when bozak and bolland are back. As I said previously, you dismiss chemistry, reliability and experience. You supplement these with toi and point production, when in reality the lineup isnt based on that. Randy has said openly countless times that bozak will continue to play with kessel because of the chemistry, open your eyes

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

The first line is more productive with bozak on it, theres no question about that, look at the logs.

These logs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bvUtpspWas

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The first line is more productive with bozak on it, theres no question about that, look at the logs. Kadri is not this teams 1c whether you believe he is or not, I assure you that. Kadri is the best most skilled center on this team, but he is not the 1c, its that simple. You need to open your eyes if you still think that smith will even be relevant on this team when bozak and bolland are back. As I said previously, you dismiss chemistry, reliability and experience. You supplement these with toi and point production, when in reality the lineup isnt based on that. Randy has said openly countless times that bozak will continue to play with kessel because of the chemistry, open your eyes

It's about winning as many games as The Toronto Maple Leafs can. If that means spreading out the offence, or players being more comfortable playing with certain players, as Leafs fans I think this is a common goal. Too many people are overly concerned who plays on the first, second, or third line. We already saw this with Mikfail Grabovski last season. We were winning and making the playoffs first time in 9 years, and people were complaining he got a raw deal by Carlyle. Winning trumps individuals. If there was a better center for Kessel and JVR than Bozak than RC would put him on that line. It's silly to think RC is sabotaging the Leafs, just silly. Team results are all that matters. If Mcclement was the best Center for Kessel and JVR, I would be advocating for him there. Anything to help the team win. 2 sets of fans here, one that want the team to do well, the other individuals.

 

[ALEXJD93]

The first line is more productive with bozak on it, theres no question about that, look at the logs. Kadri is not this teams 1c whether you believe he is or not, I assure you that. Kadri is the best most skilled center on this team, but he is not the 1c, its that simple. You need to open your eyes if you still think that smith will even be relevant on this team when bozak and bolland are back. As I said previously, you dismiss chemistry, reliability and experience. You supplement these with toi and point production, when in reality the lineup isnt based on that. Randy has said openly countless times that bozak will continue to play with kessel because of the chemistry, open your eyes

http://theleafsnation.com/2013/6/20/mythbusters-tyler-bozak-edition refer to the first chart on MYTH #2, Bozak scores more with Kessel, less away from him, Kessels scores less with him, but more without him... hmmmmm....

 

[ALEXJD93]

The first line is more productive with bozak on it, theres no question about that, look at the logs. Kadri is not this teams 1c whether you believe he is or not, I assure you that. Kadri is the best most skilled center on this team, but he is not the 1c, its that simple. You need to open your eyes if you still think that smith will even be relevant on this team when bozak and bolland are back. As I said previously, you dismiss chemistry, reliability and experience. You supplement these with toi and point production, when in reality the lineup isnt based on that. Randy has said openly countless times that bozak will continue to play with kessel because of the chemistry, open your eyes

I agree that Randy will continue to play him there, doesn't make it a good thing... Randy also continued to play Fraser and Ranger, plays a lineup last night that he wouldn't call his type of lineup and they looked great, so maybe Randy isn't always right, as you seem to think

 

[Banic]

http://theleafsnation.com/2013/6/20/mythbusters-tyler-bozak-edition refer to the first chart on MYTH #2, Bozak scores more with Kessel, less away from him, Kessels scores less with him, but more without him... hmmmmm....

Kessel managed to be a PPG player last year with Bozak, and looks roughly on pace the same with no consistency at C this year. To me it's more important that we have JVR and Kessel together with a more defensively sound player than putting Kadri (the more skilled C) there as well. Lines need to be balanced, as does a team. A team with 1 solid lines struggles and gets shut down. I don't see how people can debate that. Our scoring depth was of benefit for us last game. Depth means more than 1 solid line

 

[ALEXJD93]

Kessel managed to be a PPG player last year with Bozak, and looks roughly on pace the same with no consistency at C this year. To me it's more important that we have JVR and Kessel together with a more defensively sound player than putting Kadri (the more skilled C) there as well. Lines need to be balanced, as does a team. A team with 1 solid lines struggles and gets shut down. I don't see how people can debate that. Our scoring depth was of benefit for us last game. Depth means more than 1 solid line

Yeah, moving forward use Holland as your 2nd pair with lupul and raymond, try bozak with clarkson and kulemin, should be a big line, then d'amigo mcclement bodie/orr (iguess). Give Holland a cushy role like Kadri lost last year and that line will produce, play the bozak or kadri line against #1 team forwards, try to outplay them offensively, only way this team stays out of their end

 

[ALEXJD93]

Kessel managed to be a PPG player last year with Bozak, and looks roughly on pace the same with no consistency at C this year. To me it's more important that we have JVR and Kessel together with a more defensively sound player than putting Kadri (the more skilled C) there as well. Lines need to be balanced, as does a team. A team with 1 solid lines struggles and gets shut down. I don't see how people can debate that. Our scoring depth was of benefit for us last game. Depth means more than 1 solid line

Cause he is more of a playmaker with Bozak on ice, if you think Bozak is a better defensive player than he should be on a shutdown line, Holland can provide offense in a soft role like Kadri got last year

 

[Mikeyg]

Haha good to know, might not even go there next time.

kessley is just mad that I ignore him and that he gets reported all the time

 

[pooleboy]

we really need to look at unloading Bozak

maybe Bozak+Reimer+ for a decent dman and then roll

JVR Kadri Kessel
Lupul Holland Raymond
Kulemin Bolland Clarkson
Ashton McClement D'Amigo

signing bozak was the worst thing we could have done. and apparently we got him at a discount

 

[Mikeyg]

http://theleafsnation.com/2013/6/20/mythbusters-tyler-bozak-edition refer to the first chart on MYTH #2, Bozak scores more with Kessel, less away from him, Kessels scores less with him, but more without him... hmmmmm....

I think its hilarious that you put so much emphasis on advanced statistics when even the coaching staff doesnt, randy has said multiple times that he isnt concerned with these advanced statistics, even going back to previous statements, that he doesnt even care about qoc or qot or any of that crap, Its to bad that you werent around last year, would of loved to have heard about what you have to say about grabo... weve been over this a million times, its irrelevant what the people on here think, leafs management believes that bozak is the number 1 and that he has chemistry with phil, its essentially irrelevant that you find 1 advanced statistic that says otherwise, thats why they shipped grabo out and have made it clear that tyler bozak is the 1c of the toronto maple leafs

and LOL that graph is for even strength 5 on 5, this is neglecting the 40% of phil kessels goals that come from the power play, do you see how easy it is to tamper with statistics?

 

[Mikeyg]

It's about winning as many games as The Toronto Maple Leafs can. If that means spreading out the offence, or players being more comfortable playing with certain players, as Leafs fans I think this is a common goal. Too many people are overly concerned who plays on the first, second, or third line. We already saw this with Mikfail Grabovski last season. We were winning and making the playoffs first time in 9 years, and people were complaining he got a raw deal by Carlyle. Winning trumps individuals. If there was a better center for Kessel and JVR than Bozak than RC would put him on that line. It's silly to think RC is sabotaging the Leafs, just silly. Team results are all that matters. If Mcclement was the best Center for Kessel and JVR, I would be advocating for him there. Anything to help the team win. 2 sets of fans here, one that want the team to do well, the other individuals.

all these advanced statisticians around here bro... the funny thing is that most of them probably have never even taken a stats class in their life. Even if it was in question before the grabo buyout, the resigning and grabo buyout made it loud and clear that they were going with bozak for 1c around here.