Rumor: Peter Chiarelli is not done?

[PatrikOverAuston]

I think we all learned a valuable lesson yesterday. HFB does not determine the actual trade values of players.

Okay, good start...

The amount of EDM fans that would come onto the proposal boards and throw out ridiculous asking prices for their assets just took a huge kick in the ass yesterday.

No, bad start. Either the whole board is guilty of that behavior or no one is. You can't paint one fanbase with that brush.

Just temper the expectations. Chia does not do good with returns.

He did exactly as the market laid out for him- Johansen for Jones was the comparable. He made out well, and it's YOUR assessments that are suspect. I mean, you do post on HF after all, right, and we don't determine the values of players?

 

[Chayos]

So trading Hall for Larsson propels the Oilers into contention? Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make. Maybe Hall fetches much more at this year's deadline? Maybe not. But this seems like a knee-jerk reaction and an extreme undervalue for a top offensive dynamo.

Edmonton needs D, yes, but you're telling me that because this was, by all indications, the only RHD available for Hall, it's a good move simple because it fulfills a need. Let us not forget that Hall was the player going the other way. But I guess a decade worth of a awful hockey managing will do that to some people. The team culture starts at the top...Edmonton got straight up fleeced, man.

I don't understand how you are qualified to judge this move. There is never a fair return for a player like Hall. Look at Kessel to Pitts, Kesler to Ana, O'reiley to Col. The only difference is that the oilers felt they didn't need any other minor pieces if it meant they could get the player they were after. It was only a few short years ago when Larsson was the number one proespect leading up to the draft. There was a lot of shock he dropped to number 4 that year. So now fast forward to 5 years of development time later and he is just turning into the player that he was projected to be and is some how a lesser piece?

This deal is a lot like the Ozolinish deal for Owen Nolan. The sharks were gettin the better player but Colorado was still a a better team after the deal, because they dealt from a position of strength to fill a major need.

 

[aemoreira1981]

Just goes to show you taking the BPA is not always the best thing to do.

In the draft, you take best player available or trade down. Trades and free agency address holes. Trading for a defensive rock isn't something MacTavish or Tambellini would have done.

 

[PancakeHero]

I'm loving Chiarelli's moves. Making Vancouver look good!

 

[ManofSteel55]

I'm loving Chiarelli's moves. Making Vancouver look good!

Vancouver wishes they had the pieces to pull off a trade like yesterday. From any teams perspective.

 

[GWNR]

Okay, good start...



No, bad start. Either the whole board is guilty of that behavior or no one is. You can't paint one fanbase with that brush.



He did exactly as the market laid out for him- Johansen for Jones was the comparable. He made out well, and it's YOUR assessments that are suspect. I mean, you do post on HF after all, right, and we don't determine the values of players?

Lol, not surprising you only joined in June. You didn't see the threads all year....

Hey man, if you think you got a good return then good on you. There's a significant amount of people (including scouts and experts) that think they got a **** return.

I personally like Larsson and I think he was good player for Edmonton to get, he's exactly what they need. But not getting return on your 2nd most valuable asset is piss poor asset management.

I bet your looking forward to another top 5 pick next year!

 

[ManofSteel55]

There were a bunch of reports that NYI had a better package offered, and that other GMs, interviewed after the fact, indicated that they would have offered more had they been aware that Hall was available.

Depends on what the "better offer" was or is. Better in pure value? Maybe. Better in terms of filling our needs? Not so sure.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Lol, not surprising you only joined in June. You didn't see the threads all year....

So in other words you can't back that up.

Hey man, if you think you got a good return then good on you. There's a significant amount of people (including scouts and experts) that think they got a **** return.

And yet you say...

I personally like Larsson and I think he was good player for Edmonton to get, he's exactly what they need.

So which is it? Are you wrong and the experts right?

But not getting return on your 2nd most valuable asset is piss poor asset management.

He got return, same as Columbus got Jones in return for Johansen. That was market value. Chiarelli got it.

I bet your looking forward to another top 5 pick next year!

And, yes, the always-necessary insult.

 

[PancakeHero]

Vancouver wishes they had the pieces to pull off a trade like yesterday. From any teams perspective.

You have the pieces because you've been terribad for how many years?

Anyway, Vancouver has proven we can trade a much better player away for a slightly above average player lots of times.

Edmonton lost that trade.

 

[PancakeHero]

This trade is making the Gudbranson trade look better and better by the day.

 

[GWNR]

So in other words you can't back that up.



And yet you say...



So which is it? Are you wrong and the experts right?



He got return, same as Columbus got Jones in return for Johansen. That was market value. Chiarelli got it.



And, yes, the always-necessary insult.

You're missing the point that's being made.

They got a good player back that meets the needs of their team BUT, and I'll bold so you can follow, they did not get enough value for their 2nd most valuable asset, which is poor asset management

I do not think he got the same return as Johansen did for Jones. Hall is a consensus top 5 LW in the National Hockey League. Is Larsson even in the top 20 conversation for D-men? Top 30? No, no he is not.

If they had gotten back a draft pick with it (or another asset) then it may have been close to fair value, but if you think that Larsson returned the same value as Hall then you are out to lunch.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

You have the pieces because you've been terribad for how many years?

Well, yes. Congratulations. You know how the draft works.

Anyway, Vancouver has proven we can trade a much better player away for a slightly above average player lots of times.

And what does that have to do with the Oilers obtaining a bluechip young RD?

Edmonton lost that trade.

No, they really didn't, unless you think a) it was not the best offer out there b) Johansen for Jones didn't actually happen.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

You're missing the point that's being made.

They got a good player back that meets the needs of their team BUT, and I'll bold so you can follow, they did not get enough value for their 2nd most valuable asset, which is poor asset management

And yet he got identical value to another GM who made the same trade... which substantiates what the market and thus the value of these players is.

Again, YOU don't get to decide what they're worth. The market does. Does it bother you that much that you're wrong?

I do not think he got the same return as Johansen did for Jones. Hall is a consensus top 5 LW in the National Hockey League. Is Larsson even in the top 20 conversation for D-men? Top 30? No, no he is not.

Jones was not in the top 30 conversation at the time of the draft either, and the best rebuttal you have is "I do not think he got the same return...".

Newsflash: He did. Sorry to have to tell you again.

if you think that Larsson returned the same value as Hall then you are out to lunch.

Hall returned the same value Johansen did. That's all that matters and that's exactly what happened. How do you plan on getting around that little detail?

 

[GWNR]

And yet he got identical value to another GM who made the same trade... which substantiates what the market and thus the value of these players is.

Again, YOU don't get to decide what they're worth. The market does. Does it bother you that much that you're wrong?



Jones was not in the top 30 conversation at the time of the draft either, and the best rebuttal you have is "I do not think he got the same return...".

Newsflash: He did. Sorry to have to tell you again.



Hall returned the same value Johansen did. That's all that matters and that's exactly what happened. How do you plan on getting around that little detail?

Hall > Johansen
Jones > Larsson

You seem to be missing that little detail when you're looking at the comparable trade.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Hall > Johansen
Jones > Larsson

You seem to be missing that little detail when you're looking at the comparable trade.

I'm curious what sort of analysis led to these arbitrary > marks being involved, because you aren't showing your work here. Is this more "I think..." when the facts are, well, not opinions?

 

[GWNR]

I'm curious what sort of analysis led to these arbitrary > marks being involved, because you aren't showing your work here. Is this more "I think..." when the facts are, well, not opinions?

Yeah let's just ignore the fact that Hall has more production than RyJo over the course of his career. Those facts are real difficult to comprehend.

Not to mention Hall is a better defensive player than RyJo.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Yeah let's just ignore the fact that Hall has more production than RyJo over the course of his career. Those facts are real difficult to comprehend.

Yep, especially in light of:

Hall, last three years: 210 GP, 183 pts (0.87 PPG)
Johansen, last three years: 246 GP, 194 pts (0.78 PPG)

0.1 PPG better, or roughly one point every ten games. Not a massive gulf in production, and-

Not to mention Hall is a better defensive player than RyJo.

Johansen is a better goal-scorer (33, Hall's never touched that mark) and centers are traditionally more valued than wingers. Oh, and he's far healthier.

It's a wash and the facts tell us that.

 

[HOPE]

Draisaitl + larsson for weber

Please save us fellow canadien team!

 

[ulvvf]

Lol, big need of a winger before the trade? Not really.

Then mention one elite or even close to elite winger they have left. Instead writing lol, you could actually contribute instead.

 

[Oil Spill]

Yeah let's just ignore the fact that Hall has more production than RyJo over the course of his career. Those facts are real difficult to comprehend.

Not to mention Hall is a better defensive player than RyJo.

Hall is not a good defensive player. It's one knock I had on him.

 

[OutForMilk]

This trade is making the Gudbranson trade look better and better by the day.

Nothing would make that trade look better. Sorry.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

What a terrible deal for the Oilers. Man they are so dumb they just traded a supremely offensively talented winger for a top pairing RHD who's 23 and on a good contract. That's seriously like the easiest thing to get in the NHL. They are seriously so dumb, Hall was an offensive beast there's no way guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, Puljujarvi, can carry the offense the way he does. Edmonton is so stupid they can't do anything right they just get bent over in every deal and they are gonna be bad forever and get high draft picks cause they suck so bad.

Am I doing this HFboards thing right?

 

[GWNR]

Hall is not a good defensive player. It's one knock I had on him.

I don't think he's good in comparison to others in the league. I think he's better than RyJo, which increases his value.

 

[Rebels57]

Pretty sure everyone knows that the Oilers are a better, more balanced team as a result of the trade. It's just hard to believe that Larsson was the absolute best return that they could have gotten for one of the best LWers in the league who's 25 years old.

Everyone knows that?

Larsson doesn't improve Edmonton's defense enough to offset the loss of Hall up front.

What happens the rest of the offseason will be the determining factor.

 

[Rebels57]

What a terrible deal for the Oilers. Man they are so dumb they just traded a supremely offensively talented winger for a top pairing RHD who's 23 and on a good contract. That's seriously like the easiest thing to get in the NHL. They are seriously so dumb, Hall was an offensive beast there's no way guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, Puljujarvi, can carry the offense the way he does. Edmonton is so stupid they can't do anything right they just get bent over in every deal and they are gonna be bad forever and get high draft picks cause they suck so bad.

Am I doing this HFboards thing right?

You can call Larsson a top pairing defensemen all you want, but he is not a #1 and wouldn't be a #2 on a lot of teams.

There's a reason New Jersey fans are jumping for joy over this trade.

Hall should have been traded for nothing less than a #1 defensemen, or for a #2 with a plus coming along with him.