Per Friedman: Coyotes players told team moving to Utah starting next season (Mod warning post #50)

[Prarievarg]

I genuinely couldn't care less about whether players are okay with moving to Salt Lake City or not. They're making at minimum $800k a year or so, they'll survive.

But we're supposed to feel bad for them when they have to play in a temporary 5k-seat arena, right?

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

My understanding is that water access would be an issue in Tempe, which is kinda hilarious. Like- none of arizona’s growth is sustainable, but sure, draw the line at hockey. No seriously, do it, it’s just not a great idea unless we figure out how to replenish ground water supplies- but come on, they just don’t like the ownership, the history, or the prospects. They’ll build the world’s biggest water park if there’s money in it, this just seems dead based on past experiences. Shame?

 

[SjMilhouse]

As a complete outsider who has been to both places, I prefer Arizona. No place is perfect but I preferred my time in Arizona. Part of it and this may annoy some who have not spend much time in SLC. I like diversity and I found more in Arizona open and friendly. But that was just me

Park City is pretty incredible. Diversity in general sucks though across the state

 

[Dead Coyote]

LeBrun is from Ontario.....



That is some weapons grade copium.

I wasn't talking about LeBrun, the first two to break this were Seravelli and Wyshninski or however you spell his name.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Lots of people care about it

Then those people should be happy that the cap has done nothing but head north since the Coyotes have been in the league.

 

[nickp91]

salt lake city and atlanta have several things in common- nba team (jazz and hawks)- real housewives franchise (rhoslc and rhoa)- olympic hosts (winter 2002 and summer 1996)- nhl team rumors

 

[Dead Coyote]

It's a good prospect pool, but they never just fell into a McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon etc. that could've nearly single-handedly pulled them out of mediocrity and put butts in seats. SLC isn't going to have that solved on day 1 either.

Sure they will, the NHL will gift them Celebrini.

 

[joestevens29]

Sure they will, the NHL will gift them Celebrini.

I'm sure if the lottery was rigged Bettman would've made sure Arizona would've gotten a first overall pick by now.

 

[Dead Coyote]

The fan base will jump back on in minutes just like every other fan base who got a team back. Ask Winnipeg and Minnesota how long it took them to get back on board.

No, we won't. Winnipeg and Minnesota had to wait years, for one thing. For another thing, they're both hockey markets through and through. The average person in Arizona doesn't give a shit about the Coyotes. It's not a hockey market right now. And if Meruelo is going to dump our team for some profit and has lied to us about his intentions and about relocation being the back up plan? Then you can bet your f***ing ass not a single one of the diehard Coyotes fans that currently exist will ever trust or support him again.

So what does that leave? Oh right, a failing franchise with no fan support that's going to be shit for another 30 years.

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

I would also consider a houston team
The Houston Humidity

Houston almost got an NHL team

 

[Look Up]

This thread has a wild amount of uninformed/ignorant opinions about a state and city none of you have likely even thought about let alone visited.

Love it! SLC fans don't even have an official team yet and their insulting other fan bases. Makes this site more interesting.

 

[Edenjung]

My understanding is that water access would be an issue in Tempe, which is kinda hilarious. Like- none of arizona’s growth is sustainable, but sure, draw the line at hockey. No seriously, do it, it’s just not a great idea unless we figure out how to replenish ground water supplies- but come on, they just don’t like the ownership, the history, or the prospects. They’ll build the world’s biggest water park if there’s money in it, this just seems dead based on past experiences. Shame?

First of all it was Scottsdales mayor who said that water has to come from phoenix.
Which is the plan.
And second of all SCL also has a huge water problem in the near future.
The lake is drying up. Projection is about 5-10 years till the lake is gone.
And not only is the missing water a problem, but also the dust and pollution that then can get picked up by winds and get into the city.
The town might be booming, but that will only speed up the process. Same goes for phoenix and the surrounding areas.

Both Utah and AZ will have real trouble in the future in regards to climate change.
And i feel for the residents of both areas. This will be hard.

As the Great Salt Lake Dries Up, Utah Faces an ‘Environmental Nuclear Bomb’ (Published 2022)

Climate change and rapid population growth are shrinking the lake, creating a bowl of toxic dust that could poison the air around Salt Lake City.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/01/06/great-salt-lake-utah-drying-up/

The Great Salt Lake is drying up. Can it be saved?

Utah’s Great Salt Lake is the largest salt lake in the Western Hemisphere. Since the 1980s, the lake has shrunk by two-thirds, and is projected to disappear entirely in the next five years. If it does, it will lead to massive environmental, economic and public health issues.

www.wbur.org

What is the Problem With the Great Salt Lake Drying up?

What is the problem with the Great Salt Lake drying up, and how will it impact the water supply that many in the Great Salt Lake region depend on?

greenly.earth

 

[Empoleon8771]

But we're supposed to feel bad for them when they have to play in a temporary 5k-seat arena, right?

No? I don't think anyone feels bad for the players for having to play in Mullett Arena.

 

[snag]

First of all it was Scottsdales mayor who said that water has to come from phoenix.
Which is the plan.
And second of all SCL also has a huge water problem in the near future.
The lake is drying up. Projection is about 5-10 years till the lake is gone.
And not only is the missing water a problem, but also the dust and pollution that then can get picked up by winds and get into the city.
The town might be booming, but that will only speed up the process. Same goes for phoenix and the surrounding areas.

Both Utah and AZ will have real trouble in the future in regards to climate change.
And i feel for the residents of both areas. This will be hard.

As the Great Salt Lake Dries Up, Utah Faces an ‘Environmental Nuclear Bomb’ (Published 2022)

Climate change and rapid population growth are shrinking the lake, creating a bowl of toxic dust that could poison the air around Salt Lake City.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/01/06/great-salt-lake-utah-drying-up/

The Great Salt Lake is drying up. Can it be saved?

Utah’s Great Salt Lake is the largest salt lake in the Western Hemisphere. Since the 1980s, the lake has shrunk by two-thirds, and is projected to disappear entirely in the next five years. If it does, it will lead to massive environmental, economic and public health issues.

www.wbur.org

What is the Problem With the Great Salt Lake Drying up?

What is the problem with the Great Salt Lake drying up, and how will it impact the water supply that many in the Great Salt Lake region depend on?

greenly.earth

That reminded me of this. I remember watching the actual Our Planet documentary with my wife.

 

[bossram]

My argument is that
* No one has any clue whether he's going to get "an exorbitant payout by cashing out to the NHL" in the first place,
* Anyone claiming they know he will is purely speculating without the first shred of proof,
* No one here knows any other details about this alleged sale and terms attached,
* Anyone claiming they know any of those details is purely speculating without the first shred of proof, and
* If one is going to tout these exorbitant profits Meruelo is going to make, they should be consistent and account for all the losses Meruelo has incurred, whether exorbitant or negligible or something in-between - which, while no one has any clue what his losses truly are, a preponderance of the evidence suggests he has in fact lost money and is losing at least 8 figures a year.

Better yet: maybe you should ask me what my argument is, instead of presuming you know what it is only for me to show you you really had no idea what it was.

You're throwing around that no one has any "evidence", yet claim Meruelo is losing 8 figures a year without a shred of evidence. Hilarious.

The reporting from Friedman, Lebrun, et al. is that the sale from Meruelo to the NHL would be for approximately $1B. The sale from the NHL to Ryan Smith would be approximately $1.3 billion. You're the only one making claims with zero information backing it up.

 

[snag]

You're throwing around that no one has any "evidence", yet claim Meruelo is losing 8 figures a year without a shred of evidence. Hilarious.

The reporting from Friedman, Lebrun, et al. is that the sale from Meruelo to the NHL would be for approximately $1B. The sale from the NHL to Ryan Smith would be approximately $1.3 billion. You're the only one making claims with zero information backing it up.

I haven't been following this whole thing.....but If I have something I want (or have)to sell and I know of someone who wants it...why would I sell it to a third party who I know will sell it to them anyway at a 30% markup? The whole thing just looks dumber and more f***ed up as the days go on based on reading here.

Is the NHL holding a gun to a head here? Someone have the readers digest version?

 

[bossram]

I haven't been following this whole thing.....but If I have something I want (or have)to sell and I know of someone who wants it...why would I sell it to a third party who I know will sell it to them anyway at a 30% markup? The whole thing just looks dumber and more f***ed up as the days go on based on reading here.

Is the NHL holding a gun to a head here? Someone have the readers digest version?

Yeah, I think that is it. Rest of the owners or BoG are probably close to voting on a forced sale or something to that effect. Billion dollar bailout lets Meruelo save face and pockets a lot of cash/profit. No one is actually valuing/buying the Coyotes as is, at $1B, with no fans and no place to play. This is a backroom to deal orchestrated by the NHL to clean up the mess in Arizona.

The way it's been reported, the ~$1B would be for the buying the team. The additional $300M from Smith to the NHL would be for a "relocation" fee, more or less.

 

[NotASheep]

I imagine we will find out what happened behind the scenes that cause a sudden change in what the NHL wanted. At the all star game everything seemed alright. Curious to know what the was catalyst for this to explode

 

[GKJ]

I imagine we will find out what happened behind the scenes that cause a sudden change in what the NHL wanted. At the all star game everything seemed alright. Curious to know what the was catalyst for this to explode

The All Star Game was probably the catalyst, that’s when the league was to get an answer on what exactly the plan was. Then we started hearing about staff meetings with ownership that never happened.

 

[SjMilhouse]

First of all it was Scottsdales mayor who said that water has to come from phoenix.
Which is the plan.
And second of all SCL also has a huge water problem in the near future.
The lake is drying up. Projection is about 5-10 years till the lake is gone.
And not only is the missing water a problem, but also the dust and pollution that then can get picked up by winds and get into the city.
The town might be booming, but that will only speed up the process. Same goes for phoenix and the surrounding areas.

Both Utah and AZ will have real trouble in the future in regards to climate change.
And i feel for the residents of both areas. This will be hard.

As the Great Salt Lake Dries Up, Utah Faces an ‘Environmental Nuclear Bomb’ (Published 2022)

Climate change and rapid population growth are shrinking the lake, creating a bowl of toxic dust that could poison the air around Salt Lake City.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/01/06/great-salt-lake-utah-drying-up/

The Great Salt Lake is drying up. Can it be saved?

Utah’s Great Salt Lake is the largest salt lake in the Western Hemisphere. Since the 1980s, the lake has shrunk by two-thirds, and is projected to disappear entirely in the next five years. If it does, it will lead to massive environmental, economic and public health issues.

www.wbur.org

What is the Problem With the Great Salt Lake Drying up?

What is the problem with the Great Salt Lake drying up, and how will it impact the water supply that many in the Great Salt Lake region depend on?

greenly.earth

Utah's issue has nothing to do with population growth. The issue is drought and the state continuing to allow something like 80% of our water to go toward agriculture despite it representing <2% of the states GDP and the state being a Desert. A large majority of that agriculture being alfalfa which requires a stupid amount of water. It's all dumb

 

[Edenjung]

Utah's issue has nothing to do with population growth. The issue is drought and the state continuing to allow something like 80% of our water to go toward agriculture despite it representing <2% of the states GDP and the state being a Desert. A large majority of that agriculture being alfalfa which requires a stupid amount of water. It's all dumb

Same goes for Arizona.
I recently learned that saudi arabia bought a lot of land in AZ to grow alfalfa (also learned what that is).
Its crazy. And in both places the legeslature does little to nothing.
At least the mayor of Scottsdale does something apparently.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

You're throwing around that no one has any "evidence", yet claim Meruelo is losing 8 figures a year without a shred of evidence. Hilarious.

Just connecting some dots over the years:

2009ish - $73 million over 3 seasons: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...g-bucks-if-balsillie-buys-his-phoenix-coyotes

2009-2012 - NHL loses about $112 million operating the Coyotes: Report: NHL lost $113 million while owning Phoenix Coyotes

2015 - about $16.5 million, excluding one-time charges: Reports: New Coyotes ownership suffered losses of $16 million in first fiscal year (Updated)

2023 - at least 8 digits Coyotes’ Mullett Arena Bringing Hockey Buzz Despite Financial Haircut

And, none of that includes the reported $18 million Bally Sports owed the Coyotes, which the Coyotes will probably never see.

It's not really difficult to see a pattern of 8-digit losses per year. In a vastly smaller arena, with higher salary costs, continuing 8-digit losses is entirely feasible and we're just arguing whether the first digit is a 1, 2, or something higher.

Of course, if you want to ignore any (all) of that, feel free to do so. Or, better yet: offer any kind of evidence that the Coyotes are not losing money, much less losing money in the 8 figures. Then see if you can get people in the move the goddamn team out of Phoenix already camp to buy your story, cause they see the same stuff I am (and are exaggerating it from there).

The reporting from Friedman, Lebrun, et al. is that the sale from Meruelo to the NHL would be for approximately $1B.

1. Friedman, LeBrun, et. al. have never been wrong. Except ... all the times they've been wrong.
2. When LeBrun or anyone else has documents in hand with the terms of the sale and they line up with what you claim - especially that Meruelo is going to make a f***ing shitload of money on buying the team part, let everyone know. Until then, you're doing exactly what I said you're doing: speculating without a shred of evidence. And, you're disregarding key information so that you can continue to push a (misleading) narrative.
3. Details matter. Meruelo could "get $1 billion from selling the team" and still end up no better than breaking even on the entire transaction because he's got to pay debt or use some of that to plug losses he's incurred. Or, deal with other obligations on the books that none of us are aware of. Look [way] beyond the headlines.

Bottom line: I can at least point to numerous data points to show that the idea of the Coyotes losing $10+ million a year isn't far-fetched at all. If anything, a $10 million loss would be fantastic. You still have no proof at all Meruelo is getting $1 billion, much less clearing hundreds of millions of dollars out of this - but godammnit, you're going to go down swinging to avoid taking the L on this.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I imagine we will find out what happened behind the scenes that cause a sudden change in what the NHL wanted. At the all star game everything seemed alright.

Except ... it wasn't. @tarheelhockey had the same thought I had when Bettman spoke at the ASG: lots of qualifiers, lots of hesitation, lots of searching for the right words in a response without tipping everyone off to what was happening, but it was clear as day if you've watched Gary Bettman talk over the years that he had nothing good to say about the Phoenix situation and he was trying to avoid saying something that put all the attention on Phoenix and away from the ASG.

 

[Tawnos]

I haven't been following this whole thing.....but If I have something I want (or have)to sell and I know of someone who wants it...why would I sell it to a third party who I know will sell it to them anyway at a 30% markup? The whole thing just looks dumber and more f***ed up as the days go on based on reading here.

Is the NHL holding a gun to a head here? Someone have the readers digest version?

The $300m is the relocation fee. They did the same thing with the Thrashers, even if that situation was a bit more direct. True North just paid Atlanta Spirit Group $110m and the NHL $60m directly rather than the team changing hands twice.

I’m sure there are intricate financial details that are making them do it this specific way this time, but in the end it’s exactly the same.

 

[StreetHawk]

The $300m is the relocation fee. They did the same thing with the Thrashers, even if that situation was a bit more direct. True North just paid Atlanta Spirit Group $110m and the NHL $60m directly rather than the team changing hands twice.

I’m sure there are intricate financial details that are making them do it this specific way this time, but in the end it’s exactly the same.

I'm sure that's the case. So, be skeptical of the final numbers that get thrown out by the NHL regarding sale price and stuff as from an image POV, they would not want to show a lower value on the "sale" of the Coyotes in light of the recent sales of other NHL clubs.