Per Friedman: Coyotes players told team moving to Utah starting next season (Mod warning post #50)

[Empoleon8771]

Why does the league even deserve a relocation fee?

I mean I get this situation as they are doing a lot of leg work, but if this was just owner to owner I don't get why the NHL or any league should expect any money.

The league got a $60 million relocation fee when the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg. No reason they wouldn’t get it in this case too.

 

[joestevens29]

Prediction for what happens:

-NHL buys the Coyotes off of Meruelo for $1 billion and then sell the team to Smith for $1.2 billion. The $200 million extra money is the "relocation fee" that will be distributed among the other owners.

-Meruelo keeps the team name "Coyotes" and is given a 5+ year window for building the arena, where if the arena is built, he will be awarded a new Coyotes expansion team to play in Phoenix at a reduced expansion fee cost (probably like $800 million). If he doesn't end up getting the arena built, the NHL abandons the idea of expanding a team in Phoenix (at least in the near term).

-Smith has the Salt Lake City team playing in Delta Arena for 2-4 years as Salt Lake City builds a new state-of-the-art arena, which they already have funding approval for based on trying to get the 2034 Winter Olympics. You hope they only have to play there for 2 years, based on the enthusiasm everyone seems to have in getting it done, but you can't predict what kind of issues will arise with that.

-When (or if) the Coyotes come back as an expansion team, Atlanta will be getting a corresponding expansion team to keep the conferences even. Atlanta will just join the Atlantic division and the new Phoenix team will join the Pacific division. If Meruelo ends up not getting an arena built, I think Houston ends up being the next expansion team in the West.

I wonder if it's two stage deal with AM. You get the land, you have 5 years to have arena built. You don't get the land, deal is off.

Then Houston/Atlanta come in a lot sooner.

Lot's of greed from NHL owners so I foresee them wanting that expansion money sooner if possible.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I wonder if it's two stage deal with AM. You get the land, you have 5 years to have arena built. You don't get the land, deal is off.

Then Houston/Atlanta come in a lot sooner.

Lot's of greed from NHL owners so I foresee them wanting that expansion money sooner if possible.

Yeah that wouldn't surprise me, there is almost assuredly requirements for that "5 years for bringing the Coyotes back" part of the deal. If he strikes out on the land auction, it really seems like there are no more viable alternatives.

 

[joestevens29]

The league got a $60 million relocation fee when the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg. No reason they wouldn’t get it in this case too.

Kinda forgot about that. Just seems the 300mil being thrown around is quite ridiculous, but whatever I guess there are billionaires that want to throw money at the NHL so be it.

 

[sxvnert]

wonder if it's two stage deal with AM. You get the land, you have 5 years to have arena built. You don't get the land, deal is off.

There has to be some sort of guarantee that if he builds it hes guaranteed an expansion team (unlike Quebec and Kansas City).

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Prediction for what happens:

-NHL buys the Coyotes off of Meruelo for $1 billion and then sell the team to Smith for $1.2 billion. The $200 million extra money is the "relocation fee" that will be distributed among the other owners.

-Meruelo keeps the team name "Coyotes" and is given a 5+ year window for building the arena, where if the arena is built, he will be awarded a new Coyotes expansion team to play in Phoenix at a reduced expansion fee cost (probably like $800 million). If he doesn't end up getting the arena built, the NHL abandons the idea of expanding a team in Phoenix (at least in the near term).

-Smith has the Salt Lake City team playing in Delta Arena for 2-4 years as Salt Lake City builds a new state-of-the-art arena, which they already have funding approval for based on trying to get the 2034 Winter Olympics. You hope they only have to play there for 2 years, based on the enthusiasm everyone seems to have in getting it done, but you can't predict what kind of issues will arise with that.

-When (or if) the Coyotes come back as an expansion team, Atlanta will be getting a corresponding expansion team to keep the conferences even. Atlanta will just join the Atlantic division and the new Phoenix team will join the Pacific division. If Meruelo ends up not getting an arena built, I think Houston ends up being the next expansion team in the West.

Probably right, with some caveats:

(1) League may allow the sale to go through and waive the relocation fee just to fix the problem.

(2) Meruelo will likely retain expansion rights contingent on getting a stadium built, but whether he gets a reduced expansion fee is questionable as I get the idea that the League would like to be rid of him entirely. [Noting further that Meruelo never really wanted an NHL franchise in the first place, but rather had made a prior failed bid for the Atlanta Hawks NBA team -- he's a huge basketball fan having a box at the Lakers games -- and arguably only grabbed the Coyotes to try to build up his credentials for a future NBA bid (man, that backfired), plus there were some affiliated gaming rights in Phoenix that seemed to dovetail with his casino businesses. The point being that Meruelo may very well quit banging his head into the wall to get a Phoenix stadium about as quickly as he divests.]

(3) The IOC has stated that a new hockey arena in SLC is not needed, which might or might not throw cold water on taxpayer funds, see IOC says new baseball, hockey facilities not needed to host 2034 Olympics

(4) I doubt that anything that happens with Atlanta or elsewhere is tied to the Yotes' adventures, noting that the League was sort of unbalanced before Vegas came in, and was definitely unbalanced after Vegas came in and until Seattle came in, but it didn't seem to bother much anybody at the time, and at any rate the owners will be getting ~$1B to salve the pain.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Actually I think the NHL has to make public its accounts somewhere as a non-profit.

Maybe I need to go dig out the thread that talks about what the NHL is and isn't as a legal entity. All that said, non-profits have zero obligation to disclose anything. None of the NFL, MLB or NBA disclose financials, nor does MLS or other pro sports leagues. There's no reason why the NHL would be any different.

If not the world wide reputation of Forbes then who?

"Bad guess" may still be the best guess that one has, but that doesn't mean it should be relied upon without question.

Governments HAVE to know for taxation.

I really hope I don't have to explain the difference between GAAP accounting and tax accounting.
I really hope I don't have to explain that no one here has access to government tax records for any corporation, public or otherwise.

 

[bossram]

That's speculation. Plus, it ignores whatever losses he's incurred since he bought the team.


That $200 million he allegedly pockets also ignores whatever losses he's incurred since buying the team.

I guarantee you the losses aren't $700M. Or even $200M.

He was stiffing his vendors and rent in the first place. Trying to avoid paying his players. He paid as little as he could.

 

[viper0220]

Is it fair to say that the League did all the research before thinking about Salt Lake City?

They would not put an team there without knowing if the people would buy tickets, merch and other stuff.

Hopefully the NHL has done it's homework in full.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Probably right, with some caveats:

(1) League may allow the sale to go through and waive the relocation fee just to fix the problem.

(2) Meruelo will likely retain expansion rights contingent on getting a stadium built, but whether he gets a reduced expansion fee is questionable as I get the idea that the League would like to be rid of him entirely. [Noting further that Meruelo never really wanted an NHL franchise in the first place, but rather had made a prior failed bid for the Atlanta Hawks NBA team -- he's a huge basketball fan having a box at the Lakers games -- and arguably only grabbed the Coyotes to try to build up his credentials for a future NBA bid (man, that backfired), plus there were some affiliated gaming rights in Phoenix that seemed to dovetail with his casino businesses. The point being that Meruelo may very well quit banging his head into the wall to get a Phoenix stadium about as quickly as he divests.]

The question about Meruelo is absolutely a valid one. I don't think you can dismiss the idea that he's just a grifter and will just take his $600 million or so profit and go home or try to buy a NBA franchise. I don't want to say he would do that, but anyone who would dismiss the possibility wouldn't be thinking logically. There are a lot of things that Meruelo can do with that money, which probably make more sense than trying to get an expansion hockey team in Phoenix.

I get the vibe that he sincerely wants there to be a hockey team in Phoenix, but what is the basis for that? Does he just genuinely care that much about hockey in Phoenix, or does he want to just open up a bunch of sportsbooks in Phoenix and needs the team to do that? All owners are varying levels of scumbags, so while I get the vibes that he wants to make a team work in Phoenix, we don't really know where his true focus is at.

I wouldn't even be the least bit surprised if the NHL awards him that 5 year window to bring back the Coyotes but the arena never gets build and they never come back.

(3) The IOC has stated that a new hockey arena in SLC is not needed, which might or might not throw cold water on taxpayer funds, see IOC says new baseball, hockey facilities not needed to host 2034 Olympics

I'm pretty sure Salt Lake City already got approval for using taxpayer funds for the arena. I don't think that point will be much of a point of contention, I'm really confident that Salt Lake City is going to build a new arena.

 

[joestevens29]

Is it fair to say that the League did all the research before thinking about Salt Lake City?

They would not put an team there without knowing if the people would buy tickets, merch and other stuff.

Hopefully the NHL has done it's homework in full.

Who knows. They see a chance to rake in a pile of money. If it fails they can just move the team and get more money

 

[Edenjung]

(3) The IOC has stated that a new hockey arena in SLC is not needed, which might or might not throw cold water on taxpayer funds, see IOC says new baseball, hockey facilities not needed to host 2034 Olympics

I am with you on this one.
But to use a translated german saying "They talk a lot when the day is long".
The IOC and FIFA will say everything one day and something else the next if it means that they will make money. They are the ultimate grifters and bandits. Even the mafia doesn't hold a candle to those two.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Curious how little consideration is being given to the Yotes players. One day, you're surrounded by some of the best golf courses in the world, some of the world's best Mexican food, and lots of hot Arizona State University co-eds running around in shorty-shorts, and then the next day you're in a colder, windier city that is grossly underpopulated by hot chicks and in addition can sometimes be very, very weird.

 

[Sniper99]

yeah but they could get it now from SLC. why would they wait?

Its not going to sell out every single game, no team really does. But they'll do a lot better than Arizona. Salt Lake you'll be able to at least find Coyotes apparel in the city and area. You dont see any in Phoenix and area not even the airport.

 

[Edenjung]

Curious how little consideration is being given to the Yotes players. One day, you're surrounded by some of the best golf courses in the world, some of the world's best Mexican food, and lots of hot Arizona State University co-eds running around in shorty-shorts, and then the next day you're in a colder, windier city that is grossly underpopulated by hot chicks and in addition can sometimes be very, very weird.

I can understand every player who doesn't want to go.
If they tried moving me to Utah, i would retire or want a trade asap.
No hot chicks? Not so great food?
Well if i wanted that i would move to england ^^

 

[Half Clapper]

Ya idk how anybody could ever say living in SLC is better than living in Arizona. Lots of players love playing in Arizona. Idk if the same will be said about SLC.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I guarantee you the losses aren't $700M. Or even $200M.

He was stiffing his vendors and rent in the first place. Trying to avoid paying his players. He paid as little as he could.

I didn't say his losses were $200M, or $700M, or anything. I don't know what his losses are, neither does anyone else. But I don't think anyone here is arguing that he's made money while he's owned the team.

 

[tny760]

Curious how little consideration is being given to the Yotes players. One day, you're surrounded by some of the best golf courses in the world, some of the world's best Mexican food, and lots of hot Arizona State University co-eds running around in shorty-shorts, and then the next day you're in a colder, windier city that is grossly underpopulated by hot chicks and in addition can sometimes be very, very weird.

i'd trade 6 months of my year in SLC for millions of dollars before i made that trade in say, edmonton or buffalo

could always be worse yknow

 

[VivaLasVegas]

I can understand every player who doesn't want to go.
If they tried moving me to Utah, i would retire or want a trade asap.
No hot chicks? Not so great food?
Well if i wanted that i would move to england ^^

Which item here makes you salivate the most? ...... These 14 Iconic Foods in Utah Will Have Your Mouth Watering

 

[TLEH]

SLC is definitely worse than Phoenix, but wouldn't be an awful place to live in general.

 

[Edenjung]

Ya idk how anybody could ever say living in SLC is better than living in Arizona. Lots of players love playing in Arizona. Idk if the same will be said about SLC.

https://archive.ph/9dMo1

Yep according to the athletic the players love AZ. And even former players like Dumba are in favor of staying.

 

[Sniper99]

Bring Karl Malone out to drop the puck and I'm in too.

as long as Stockton gets the assist

 

[JKG33]

Curious how little consideration is being given to the Yotes players. One day, you're surrounded by some of the best golf courses in the world, some of the world's best Mexican food, and lots of hot Arizona State University co-eds running around in shorty-shorts, and then the next day you're in a colder, windier city that is grossly underpopulated by hot chicks and in addition can sometimes be very, very weird.

Is SLC weird? Sure. Is it cold? Not as bad as Winnipeg or Buffalo. Is there a shortage of talent there? Shockingly not. Maybe not at ASU levels but Utah is underrated.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I genuinely couldn't care less about whether players are okay with moving to Salt Lake City or not. They're making at minimum $800k a year or so, they'll survive. Normal people get forcefully relocated all of the time while making a fraction of what NHLers make.

I feel bad for the Phoenix-based Coyotes employees who will be out of a job with the Coyotes moving and the fans losing their team. But the players? Go cry me a river.

 

[archangel2]

Ya idk how anybody could ever say living in SLC is better than living in Arizona. Lots of players love playing in Arizona. Idk if the same will be said about SLC.

As a complete outsider who has been to both places, I prefer Arizona. No place is perfect but I preferred my time in Arizona. Part of it and this may annoy some who have not spend much time in SLC. I like diversity and I found more in Arizona open and friendly. But that was just me