Per Friedman: Coyotes players told team moving to Utah starting next season (Mod warning post #50)

[BKarchitect]

Is it fair to say that the League did all the research before thinking about Salt Lake City?

They would not put an team there without knowing if the people would buy tickets, merch and other stuff.

Hopefully the NHL has done it's homework in full.

I think this is much about the league liking the potential of Ryan Smith as an influential owner as it is about trying to specifically grow the SLC market/footprint.

I don't think you can make a great case that in some perfect world, SLC would be #1 on the NHL's list if every candidate city had strong, singular ownership, civic support, and an arena or arena plan basically sealed and delivered both for short-term and long-term. I think several markets would be more appealing in a vacuum, not that SLC wouldn't also be among the finalists as a good growth market. Including, almost certainly, staying in the Phoenix area with a strong owner and good arena plan.

But the timing has worked out well for SLC in this case. It's the city and ownership group that is ready, willing and politically able right now.

 

[StreetHawk]

https://archive.ph/9dMo1

Yep according to the athletic the players love AZ. And even former players like Dumba are in favor of staying.

What's not to like when you are there from Sept to mid April? Not blazing hot, but nice in the winter months when you play. Wouldn't want to be a MLB player there during July to Aug. But, for NBA/NHL/NFL, it's great during their seasons.

Weather wise, SLC similar to Denver I would imagine. Not as big a city as Denver.

 

[Edenjung]

Which item here makes you salivate the most? ...... These 14 Iconic Foods in Utah Will Have Your Mouth Watering

Wow thats underwhelming.
Like i think the fruits look nice and all, but the tomatoes could be the same watery, tasteless ones from the netherlands (i live there). Also the dutch have frietsauce. I would guess its better than the utah one. But would have to try it ;D
The burgers seem nice. But doesn't Arbys have similar sandwiches?
If that is really all they have then its really sad. Because there are so many great local foods in the US or different types of one dish (watch all the videos George Motz did on Hamburgers) its great. And they don't have one (atleast they did not state it in your link).
Or like a great food that is connected to their religion.
Like the area where i come from in germany has a tradition that is only seen in the Munsterland on good friday. We make a yeast pancakes. Its called Struwen and includes raisins.
Tasty as hell. And it was created by the nuns of a monestary in our region.

Anyways thats really underwhelming on the food side of things.

 

[LOFIN]

I genuinely couldn't care less about whether players are okay with moving to Salt Lake City or not. They're making at minimum $800k a year or so, they'll survive. Normal people get forcefully relocated all of the time while making a fraction of what NHLers make.

I feel bad for the Phoenix-based Coyotes employees who will be out of a job with the Coyotes moving and the fans losing their team. But the players? Go cry me a river.

I mean I'm pretty sure the players are allowed to mutually terminate their contracts with the team, if it's that bad. I have a feeling none of them will.

 

[archangel2]

I genuinely couldn't care less about whether players are okay with moving to Salt Lake City or not. They're making at minimum $800k a year or so, they'll survive. Normal people get forcefully relocated all of the time while making a fraction of what NHLers make.

I feel bad for the Phoenix-based Coyotes employees who will be out of a job with the Coyotes moving and the fans losing their team. But the players? Go cry me a river.

I took a course at UBC that was suppose to be for agents but I worked at UBC and was able to attend the course under guise helping that analytics that I use in my job and you would be surprised how much of that 800$ some players take home.. Now they are not heading the soup line but depending on where they play? There is a reason why players are looking at states tax laws when they decide where they want to play. One stat I saw last year had a player making 800k in Ontario would take home about 350k. But it depends on how good their tax lawyer/agent is

 

[These Are The Days]

Are we already critiquing the finer points of Salt Lake City before the team even gets there? Someone needs to unplug HF and plug it back in

 

[not a troll]

Ya idk how anybody could ever say living in SLC is better than living in Arizona. Lots of players love playing in Arizona. Idk if the same will be said about SLC.

The thing is though, players grow up dreaming of playing in front of 15k+ fans in a big arena on the biggest stage not in front of 5k in a college arena. The off-ice stuff is nice but what happens on the ice matters more.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Curious how little consideration is being given to the Yotes players. One day, you're surrounded by some of the best golf courses in the world, some of the world's best Mexican food, and lots of hot Arizona State University co-eds running around in shorty-shorts, and then the next day you're in a colder, windier city that is grossly underpopulated by hot chicks and in addition can sometimes be very, very weird.

I'm probably just naive, but it amuses me that players would actually feel this way. For one, hardly any of them control their destiny as to where they play -- from the moment they are drafted to the fact they can be traded at any time. Secondly, they're on the road half the season and immersed in practices and home games otherwise. I would figure there would be little time to enjoy those perks. Not to mention they can find hot chicks (and side chicks) at every place they go to on the road.

They love it so much there, they can make it their off-season home and enjoy it at the peak months.

 

[Sniper99]

Utah is a joke hockey market lol. Small population and nobody there even likes hockey. Hilarious!

Do you have actual facts to back this up or are you some bitter Yotes fan?
You know for sure NOBODY in Utah likes hockey? Try doing your little made up survey on Phoenix and area citizens. You dont see a single person anywhere wearing Yotes apparel unless you goto a game.. The local Lids and other fan apparel stores dont have their stuff either. All thats in the stores are Dbacks Suns Cardinals ASU Arizona and a bunch of other teams, but never the Yotes. Same at the gift shops at the airport.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean I'm pretty sure the players are allowed to mutually terminate their contracts with the team, if it's that bad. I have a feeling none of them will.

Yeah the "what about the players?" whining I've seen from some people in the media is genuinely hilarious. There are tweets like "it's not fair that players with NTCs who don't want to go to Salt Lake City have to go to Salt Lake City", as if I should give a shit that Alex Kerfoot making $3.5 million a season can't use his 10 team NTC to block the move.

I think it is largely the players speaking through the media because they like living in Phoenix and don't want to be forced to move. I just genuinely do not give a shit if they don't want that with how much money they're making.

I took a course at UBC that was suppose to be for agents but I worked at UBC and was able to attend the course under guise helping that analytics that I use in my job and you would be surprised how much of that 800$ some players take home.. Now they are not heading the soup line but depending on where they play? There is a reason why players are looking at states tax laws when they decide where they want to play. One stat I saw last year had a player making 800k in Ontario would take home about 350k. But it depends on how good their tax lawyer/agent is

Still failing to see a reason why I should give a shit about these players moving at that money.

 

[Half Clapper]

Do you have actual facts to back this up or are you some bitter Yotes fan?
You know for sure NOBODY in Utah likes hockey? Try doing your little made up survey on Phoenix and area citizens. You dont see a single person anywhere wearing Yotes apparel unless you goto a game.. The local Lids and other fan apparel stores dont have their stuff either. All thats in the stores are Dbacks Suns Cardinals ASU Arizona and a bunch of other teams, but never the Yotes. Same at the gift shops at the airport.

Just like any market, if you win the fans will come. If you lose, well nobody will come. Both Florida teams, Carolina, Pittsburgh, Chicago all have had this problem just to name a few. San Jose is having this issue now too.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm probably just naive, but it amuses me that players would actually feel this way. For one, hardly any of them control their destiny as to where they play -- from the moment they are drafted to the fact they can be traded at any time. Secondly, they're on the road half the season and immersed in practices and home games otherwise. I would figure there would be little time to enjoy those perks. Not to mention they can find hot chicks (and side chicks) at every place they go to on the road.

They love it so much there, they can make it their off-season home and enjoy it at the peak months.

Only 2 players on Arizona's roster has a NTC (Kerfoot and Schmaltz) and both are only 10 team NTCs. Keller has a full NTC kicking in next year but this is no different than the Coyotes trading him before his NTC kicks in.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Salt Lake City would be the 3rd smallest metro area in the NHL, behind Winnipeg and Buffalo. They've already got the NBA, MLS, and possibly MLB soon. That's a lot of supply in such a small market.

I'm sure they'll do well in the first few years like every other new team, but the market will be crowded after that. Maybe the league knows what they're doing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Salt Lake City would be the 3rd smallest metro area in the NHL, behind Winnipeg and Buffalo. They've already got the NBA, MLS, and possibly MLB soon. That's a lot of supply in such a small market.

I'm sure they'll do well in the first few years like every other new team, but the market will be crowded after that.

Salt Lake City's metro population has also grown by 4% since 2020 and is one of the fastest growing cities in the United States. It's a booming tech hub city.

 

[Tawnos]

Salt Lake City would be the 3rd smallest metro area in the NHL, behind Winnipeg and Buffalo. They've already got the NBA, MLS, and possibly MLB soon. That's a lot of supply in such a small market.

I'm sure they'll do well in the first few years like every other new team, but the market will be crowded after that. Maybe the league knows what they're doing.

The SLC metropolitan statistical area certainly would be, but the market itself will include Provo and Ogden. There are 2.58 million people who live within 50 miles of Delta Center.

 

[DustyDangler]

OK, fair point. Let me address it.

A technical sellout for the Blackhawks right now is about 19,717. Everything else is standing room only. In the 2019-20 season, the smallest crowd the Blackhawks had was 21,172 (an October 22 game vs. Vegas). Even in the 2017-18 season where the Blackhkaws fell way out of the playoff chase, the smallest crowd was still 21,264 [the 2nd game of the season, vs. Columbus]. The 2018-19 season, the Blackhawks were under 21,000 twice, and the smallest crowd was still 20,900.

This season? The Blackhawks have drawn 19,717 or more over 20,000 just 9 times. They've drawn under 19,000 half the season, including 6 games under 17,500. Even if you want to paint it in terms of "% of capacity" Chicago is way under what it's been even in recent seasons in the post-Cup era.

It underscores a hard reality: even in Chicago, proper metro area of 7.5 million (or more, depending on what you want to include), the Blackhawks still can't find at least 19,717 people to fill the United Center for 41 home games, because it's not a market where people will pay to show up to see a losing team.

Blackhawks fans have long been bandwagoners.

 

[SjMilhouse]

This thread has a wild amount of uninformed/ignorant opinions about a state and city none of you have likely even thought about let alone visited.

 

[joestevens29]

Yeah the "what about the players?" whining I've seen from some people in the media is genuinely hilarious. There are tweets like "it's not fair that players with NTCs who don't want to go to Salt Lake City have to go to Salt Lake City", as if I should give a shit that Alex Kerfoot making $3.5 million a season can't use his 10 team NTC to block the move.

I think it is largely the players speaking through the media because they like living in Phoenix and don't want to be forced to move. I just genuinely do not give a shit if they don't want that with how much money they're making.



Still failing to see a reason why I should give a shit about these players moving at that money.

Tweet I read made it sound like players don't have ARI on their list of teams they wouldn't go to, but wouldn't want to go to SLC.

I mean i find it funny that something like this is already coming out considering players are still playing and shouldn't even be worried about being traded right now.

And if it does become an issue in off-season can't they amend the NTC's? Allow every player in the NHL to add SLC if they want, but they have to take off another team from their list.

 

[bossram]

I didn't say his losses were $200M, or $700M, or anything. I don't know what his losses are, neither does anyone else. But I don't think anyone here is arguing that he's made money while he's owned the team.

So you argument is that while he will still make an exorbitant payout by cashing out to the NHL, it is slightly less exorbitant than we think because we have to factor in his losses from running the team.

Okay. Sure.

 

[Tawnos]

Tweet I read made it sound like players don't have ARI on their list of teams they wouldn't go to, but wouldn't want to go to SLC.

I mean i find it funny that something like this is already coming out considering players are still playing and shouldn't even be worried about being traded right now.

And if it does become an issue in off-season can't they amend the NTC's? Allow every player in the NHL to add SLC if they want, but they have to take off another team from their list.

Most players have to re-submit their NTC lists every year anyway.

 

[Captain97]

This doesn't affect anyone's team in any way. So wanting the team to move is wanting the fans to lose their team.

It may be different if keeping the Coyotes in Phoenix hurt their teams somehow, but it doesn't. Them playing in a small arena doesn't hurt anyone's favorite team, but it doesn't. So why want them to move?

But it does, it affects league revenues and the salary cap. Which matter a lot to teams with long term contracts.


I think moving the team, and building a new arena with guaranteed front of the line for the next expansion team ro "bring back" the team in 3-6 years makes the most sense for everyone involved.

 

[joestevens29]

Most players have to re-submit their NTC lists every year anyway.

I think the problem would be if the team is moved before the draft, but yes after July 1st it shouldn't matter.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

But it does, it affects league revenues and the salary cap. Which matter a lot to teams with long term contracts.

Oh, come on. Nobody cares about the league revenue. It has zero effect on your team that the Coyotes play in a temporary, small arena.

Over the last 20 years, the salary cap has more than doubled and the league has signed mega-TV deals.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

So you argument is that while he will still make an exorbitant payout by cashing out to the NHL, it is slightly less exorbitant than we think because we have to factor in his losses from running the team.

Okay. Sure.

My argument is that
* No one has any clue whether he's going to get "an exorbitant payout by cashing out to the NHL" in the first place,
* Anyone claiming they know he will is purely speculating without the first shred of proof,
* No one here knows any other details about this alleged sale and terms attached,
* Anyone claiming they know any of those details is purely speculating without the first shred of proof, and
* If one is going to tout these exorbitant profits Meruelo is going to make, they should be consistent and account for all the losses Meruelo has incurred, whether exorbitant or negligible or something in-between - which, while no one has any clue what his losses truly are, a preponderance of the evidence suggests he has in fact lost money and is losing at least 8 figures a year.

Better yet: maybe you should ask me what my argument is, instead of presuming you know what it is only for me to show you you really had no idea what it was.

 

[joestevens29]

Oh, come on. Nobody cares about the league revenue. It has zero effect on your team that the Coyotes play in a temporary, small arena.

Over the last 20 years, the salary cap has more than doubled and the league has signed mega-TV deals.

Lots of people care about it