Per Friedman: Coyotes players told team moving to Utah starting next season (Mod warning post #50)

[SensontheRush]

Then I doubt he sells… he has all the leverage here.

NHL agreed to allow them to play in the Mullet for 3 years and the option of plus 1 and plus 1 before he invested millions into it .

5 days ago XG said they are committed to winning the auction and keeping the team here. If the lose they have to look at the possibility of relocating..

NHL and Ryan Smith are talking about the league purchasing the Yotes, and then sell to Smith along with expansion fee.

But AM has to be willing to sell, and they don’t know if he will. They haven’t made him that offer he can’t refuse.

Listen to Lebrun on TSN.

He said we need to be careful what we say as this is not a done deal. They don’t know if AM will sell.

If he does it could go quick, but he is committed to winning the auction and keeping the team here.

The fan base will jump back on in minutes just like every other fan base who got a team back. Ask Winnipeg and Minnesota how long it took them to get back on board.

This guy is getting $1b for a franchise valued at $200m. He's going to sell.

Furthermore, it's hard to look at his behaviour as someone that truly wants to invest the funds to make Hockey successful in the desert. The biggest one being how he spent a 10TH of the funds the opposition spent on the Tempe land deal. Some shitty municipal non-for-profit from out of town spent more money on advertising and marketing than AM did.

This guy is going to be TOXIC to any potential return to AZ in the future. Not just the community as a whole, but also any potential partners he would have to make in the private and public spheres to have a truly successful product. Did the current owners of WPG and MIN run their old incarnations out of town? I don't think so.

Not only that, but a toxic relationship between an owner and the fanbase completely kills fan turnout; just look at the Sens under Melnyk. You just can't risk that if you are the NHL, especially if you somehow convinced the ownership board group to try Hockey again in AZ, despite the two decade long struggles.

It's pretty clear now IMO that all AM gave a f*** about was flipping an asset for major dineros.

 

[Edenjung]

The fan base will jump back on in minutes just like every other fan base who got a team back. Ask Winnipeg and Minnesota how long it took them to get back on board.

I highly doubt that. Both Winnipeg and Minnesota are hockey markets.
They love the sport. And will always love it. And while the Jets have some problems with corporate seats being empty, they have been sold out for the majority of their new existance.

If an expansion wants to work in a non-traditional market, it needs to be good asap. SLC will have that if they get the team. They are almost done with the rebuild, they have tons of picks and good prospects and the on-ice future will be bright.

A new arizona team won't have that. They will most likely have to build everything up from scratch and that would just be a continueation of the last 10 years. And they won't get the Vegas treatment thats for sure.
So yeah i highly doubt the NHL will be back to AZ and if they try they will fail.

 

[joestevens29]

The fan base will jump back on in minutes just like every other fan base who got a team back. Ask Winnipeg and Minnesota how long it took them to get back on board.

I mean for Winnipeg you were bringing back a team from one of the 4 major sports in North America back to a City that only had CFL and AHL hockey.

The down side for Arizona is they have other major sports teams there, other options for people to divert their money to while figuring out what's going on with a new venue. Sure you'll always get your diehards back, but for a club that's been struggling with attendance for over a decade I don't know that it's the same.

 

[Llewzaher]

This guy is getting $1b for a

He Is a majority owner. He gets 1 bil. Then has to pay 800mil for an expansion fee, plus pay the minority owners. Not sure he would do that..

If the team comes back in 29 and then starts a build ( rebuild) .. not sure he would want that..

They would have to make him a better offer..

I could be completely wrong, but I am not sure he would sell.

The league already agreeed to 3 years in the Mullet plus 1 plus 1 , before AM put millions of dollars into it..

Will be interesting to see how it plays out. I will follow them wherever they go.. but my feeling is he doesn’t sell.

 

[joestevens29]

I think a lot of that will depend on whether the team is a dumpster fire for a decade+. Yotes fans haven't had much to cheer for in a long time. If given an average team to follow, I expect SLC will be fine. If AZ had an average team and an arena, they would've ended up being fine too.

Given their prospect pool and picks they have the next couple years all it's really going to take is an owner willing to spend some cap space on actual players.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Vegas was gifted a top team by the NHL.

By NHL teams mismanagement.

They were smarter with Seattle which had the same rules as Vegas. GMs made bad deals with Vegas. Vegas also has made amazing deals afterwards.

There front office was not just gifted this.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

He's going to cash out for a billion, when he bought the team at a valuation of $300M.

That's speculation. Plus, it ignores whatever losses he's incurred since he bought the team.

If he sells the team for $1 billion and then pays an $800 million expansion fee once the arena is done, he’s still getting his team in Phoenix while also pocketing $200 million out of it.

That $200 million he allegedly pockets also ignores whatever losses he's incurred since buying the team.

 

[joestevens29]

By NHL teams mismanagement.

They were smarter with Seattle which had the same rules as Vegas. GMs made bad deals with Vegas. Vegas also has made amazing deals afterwards.

There front office was not just gifted this.

That and didn't Francis have some offers, but decided against them?

NHL might've set the rules to make it easier on this round of expansion teams, but man did GM's help out Vegas more.

Getting Smith, Tuch and Theodore for taking on certain players added to teams making some of the players Vegas took were Marchessault, Karlsson and Fleury sure helped Vegas out more than any rules the NHL setup lol

Stupid thing is GM's didn't even want to make deals with other clubs. They thought that Vegas was going to be so bad that let's just make them take all the bad problems on instead of helping teams that are already in the league.

Edit:Anyone have the numbers on how much revenue sharing the Coyotes are currently getting and how much they lose per year?

Be interesting if NHL pulled that revenue sharing from them how long Meruelo would actually want to own the team for.

 

[JKG33]

Vegas since they entered the league have put on a masterclass of how to run a winning team. Many people, myself included said they'd be dogshit after the draft. But they proved us wrong and kept making moves. To say they were gifted a contender is such a laughable take.

Seattle had the same rules. But they sat on their hands, not making trades and making some questionable expansion picks.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Edit:Anyone have the numbers on how much revenue sharing the Coyotes are currently getting and how much they lose per year?

No one has access to any team's financials, so no one really knows how much the Coyotes or any other team in the league makes or loses.

Be interesting if NHL pulled that revenue sharing from them how long Meruelo would actually want to own the team for.

The Coyotes don't get revenue sharing up to the point that makes the franchise profitable, or even break-even. The amount of revenue sharing teams get is capped based on the various measures outlined in Article 49.

Vegas since they entered the league have put on a masterclass of how to run a winning team. Many people, myself included said they'd be dogshit after the draft. But they proved us wrong and kept making moves. To say they were gifted a contender is such a laughable take.

Seattle had the same rules. But they sat on their hands, not making trades and picking some questionable expansion picks.

They had teh bestest analytics, though. Maybe not John Chayka-level analytics - no one will ever have that good of analytics - but definitely more awesomer analytics than the rest of the league because of pouring tens of millions of dollars into it and hiring a bunch of people to do teh analytics because they knew about teh analytics.

 

[not a troll]

Too bad there's no city council for Bill Daly to get in front of and ask for $50MM to keep the team from moving.

 

[LOFIN]

Show me one thing Seravelli has broken about Arizona. Ever.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret:
This story is not happening just behind the closed doors of Arizona Coyotes offices

Frank might not have a single legit source inside of the Arizona Coyotes. But he does have sources in other organizations and the NHL itself.

 

[Aphid]

The fan base will jump back on in minutes just like every other fan base who got a team back. Ask Winnipeg and Minnesota how long it took them to get back on board.

Yup we're suckers. The NHL has a somewhat monopoly on professional hockey. There's nothing else out there that even comes close to it. So if you like watching hockey and you want to see the best players in the world, you have to watch it.

 

[theguardianII]

The league already agreeed to 3 years in the Mullet plus 1 plus 1 , before AM put millions of dollars into it..

Even though the NHL had a 3 year commitment, that was last year. He had to get something done. They waited too long. If he knew there was a deadline what idiot would not have a plan B or a "break the glass" option. He was a gambler who rolled the dice without really taking any chances and lost.
AND
The NHLPA got involved

Edit:Anyone have the numbers on how much revenue sharing the Coyotes are currently getting and how much they lose per year?

Be interesting if NHL pulled that revenue sharing from them how long Meruelo would actually want to own the team for.

The Coyotes don't get revenue sharing up to the point that makes the franchise profitable, or even break-even. The amount of revenue sharing teams get is capped based on the various measures outlined in Article 49.

Forbes list shows in 2022 they made a little over 5 million and Florida a little under.
This needs to be reworked but it gives an idea.

Illustration: If the Minimum Team Player Compensation for a League Year were $40
million, and the Targeted Team Player Compensation were $50 million, then the
Maximum Base Distribution would be $10 million, the Maximum Distribution would be
$11.5 million, and, subject to Sections 49.4(a)(ii)(B) and (iv) below, no Club would be
permitted to receive a Distribution in excess of $11.5 million.

I would think because the NHL waived many of the other requirement he would get the maximum allowed.

Something totally marginally hockey related, especially in UTAH, pride celebrations? One church every 3 blocks?

 

[jetsforever]

I think it'd be sad to see the Coyotes leave Arizona but if that happens I also think it would be ridiculous to immediately give them another team.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Forbes list shows in 2022 they made a little over 5 million and Florida a little under.

As has been stated numerous times over the years, the numbers from Forbes aren't real. They're purely guesses. Maybe advanced guesses, but still guesses not grounded in anything publicly accessible and certainly nothing Forbes can say "we've checked this against ______, we can guarantee its accuracy to [some specified threshold]."

 

[joestevens29]

I'm going to let you in on a little secret:
This story is not happening just behind the closed doors of Arizona Coyotes offices

Frank might not have a single legit source inside of the Arizona Coyotes. But he does have sources in other organizations and the NHL itself.

The guy is the head of the PHWA as well, so you don't exactly get that job without knowing people throughout the league in varying positions. Something people seem to forget.

Not to say what he says is always accurate, but on something like this I think there is probably more to it than him just being bored making up a story

 

[tucker3434]

Given their prospect pool and picks they have the next couple years all it's really going to take is an owner willing to spend some cap space on actual players.

It's a good prospect pool, but they never just fell into a McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon etc. that could've nearly single-handedly pulled them out of mediocrity and put butts in seats. SLC isn't going to have that solved on day 1 either.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I think it'd be sad to see the Coyotes leave Arizona but if that happens I also think it would be ridiculous to immediately give them another team.

I don't think there'd be any kind of "immediate" return to Arizona at all......at least not until they finally figure out how to build a real NHL-calibre arena in Phoenix or Tempe or wherever it ends up being.

 

[LPHabsFan]

That's speculation. Plus, it ignores whatever losses he's incurred since he bought the team.


That $200 million he allegedly pockets also ignores whatever losses he's incurred since buying the team.

The losses he's incurred are just the tip of the iceberg since that doesn't include whatever debt the team has incurred prior to his purchase, which was estimated to be several hundred million dollars.

What's crazy here is that people are believing that the NHL would accept a relocation fee of around 300 million when the most recent expansion fee was 650 and is now reported to be upwards of a billion dollars.

The NHL are ruthless businessmen and lawyers. There is no way that this, or the original purchase of the Coyotes by AM had standard purchase language. There had to have been numerous conditions in the purchase agreement that allowed for the forced sale of the team either to the NHL.

 

[joestevens29]

It's a good prospect pool, but they never just fell into a McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon etc. that could've nearly single-handedly pulled them out of mediocrity and put butts in seats. SLC isn't going to have that solved on day 1 either.

I don't think they will either. I also don't think you necessarily need those types to have success in the league though.

Spending some money on actual players playing instead of taking LTIR or cap dumps can make this club better.

Making sure your amateur/pro scouting and development are properly financed is also going to be pretty big the next couple years as well.

 

[theguardianII]

As has been stated numerous times over the years, the numbers from Forbes aren't real. They're purely guesses. Maybe advanced guesses, but still guesses not grounded in anything publicly accessible and certainly nothing Forbes can say "we've checked this against ______, we can guarantee its accuracy to [some specified threshold]."

Actually I think the NHL has to make public its accounts somewhere as a non-profit.
If not the world wide reputation of Forbes then who?
Governments HAVE to know for taxation.

 

[joestevens29]

The losses he's incurred are just the tip of the iceberg since that doesn't include whatever debt the team has incurred prior to his purchase, which was estimated to be several hundred million dollars.

What's crazy here is that people are believing that the NHL would accept a relocation fee of around 300 million when the most recent expansion fee was 650 and is now reported to be upwards of a billion dollars.

The NHL are ruthless businessmen and lawyers. There is no way that this, or the original purchase of the Coyotes by AM had standard purchase language. There had to have been numerous conditions in the purchase agreement that allowed for the forced sale of the team either to the NHL.

Why does the league even deserve a relocation fee?

I mean I get this situation as they are doing a lot of leg work, but if this was just owner to owner I don't get why the NHL or any league should expect any money.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Prediction for what happens:

-NHL buys the Coyotes off of Meruelo for $1 billion and then sell the team to Smith for $1.2 billion. The $200 million extra money is the "relocation fee" that will be distributed among the other owners.

-Meruelo keeps the team name "Coyotes" and is given a 5+ year window for building the arena, where if the arena is built, he will be awarded a new Coyotes expansion team to play in Phoenix at a reduced expansion fee cost (probably like $800 million). If he doesn't end up getting the arena built, the NHL abandons the idea of expanding a team in Phoenix (at least in the near term).

-Smith has the Salt Lake City team playing in Delta Arena for 2-4 years as Salt Lake City builds a new state-of-the-art arena, which they already have funding approval for based on trying to get the 2034 Winter Olympics. You hope they only have to play there for 2 years, based on the enthusiasm everyone seems to have in getting it done, but you can't predict what kind of issues will arise with that.

-When (or if) the Coyotes come back as an expansion team, Atlanta will be getting a corresponding expansion team to keep the conferences even. Atlanta will just join the Atlantic division and the new Phoenix team will join the Pacific division. If Meruelo ends up not getting an arena built, I think Houston ends up being the next expansion team in the West.

 

[Maple Leaf]

I would also consider a houston team
The Houston Humidity