Per Friedman: Coyotes players told team moving to Utah starting next season (Mod warning post #50)

[Transplanted Caper]

Just has Josh Doan say how much he loves Utah and their wonderful churches every month and it’s a full sell out.

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Utah sounds more like Canada than I would have thought.

 

[Ezekial]

My favorite part of the whole ordeal is a bunch of people people who have bitched and moaned about Arizona and their ownership now talking out of the other side of their mouth about how the fans are being wronged and the league is doing bad with this.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

A 36 team league for Americas 6-7th most watched league/sport (i'm including NCAA basketball & football separate from NBA/NFL) is asinine.

Two of the sports you're including has about 150 teams.

 

[Osakahaus]

So the biggest issue that exists is what the hell the city of Utah does right to make people go to games, because man this is being dropped on them fast

 

[Legion34]

So the biggest issue that exists is what the hell the city of Utah does right to make people go to games, because man this is being dropped on them fast

???? Is it that hard to get people to go to games there? It’s not too hard in the majority of markets

 

[Tawnos]

Will SLC be the smallest market in the league with both NBA and NHL teams vying for the same dollars from a fanbase?

Obviously competition for arena dates won’t be a thing if Ryan Smith owns both franchises and I expect a lot of cross-over synergy and marketing.

But nonetheless - it’s not just about population or overall sports market saturation - which clearly the SLC market can handle an additional pro team at its current population and growth.

But the fact that the two major franchises are going to be running on the exact same season schedule and competing for the exact same week night time and expenditures from a fanbase is interesting. To me there is something to look at not in terms of pure market saturation but maybe seasonal saturation here? I’m a family and I live maybe not in downtown as the area spreads out and I’ve got only so much time to make evening games and so many dollars to spend on my sports enthusiasm during the October thru April half of the year.

This is not an attack on SLC, so put the knives away. I’m just wondering if there is another market quite like this at this size if the move happens…I would have thought the MLB would be a better fit and I know that is still something folks in the area are dreaming of.

Yes, it definitely will be the smallest with both NBA and NHL, but all the other larger cities with both are also have MLB and NFL. Denver is currently the smallest at 3m population, compared to SLC's 2.5m.

To support both NBA at a smaller size, IMO the city needs an X factor. In this case, that's going to be winter sports.

 

[HFpapi]

Two of the sports you're including has about 150 teams.

Ok but those are colleges not professional sports franchises. Teams are funded by tuition and every college basically has a 40-70,000 enrollement/student fan base built in + don't have to pay their athletes millions. (I know with NIL some do get that now). It also isn't one giant cohesive league where every team has to play each other twice.

NHL popularity also pales in comparison to college football which is basically religion in the USA.

Not comparable at all. The comparable leagues are NBA, MLB, MLS and none of those leagues have 36 teams so why should the NHL, (the smallest amongst them)?

 

[Coffey]

Utah sounds more like Canada than I would have thought.

Yea, just less theocracy and more alcohol and drugs.

 

[GKJ]

Ok but those are colleges not professional sports franchises. Teams are funded by tuition and every college basically has a 40-70,000 enrollement/student fan base built in + don't have to pay their athletes millions. (I know with NIL some do get that now). It also isn't one giant cohesive league where every team has to play each other twice.

NHL popularity also pales in comparison to college football which is basically religion in the USA.

Not comparable at all. The comparable leagues are NBA, MLB, MLS and none of those leagues have 36 teams so why should the NHL, (the smallest amongst them)?

Because the NHL is in the fewest American markets.

 

[Lt Frank Drebin]

Ok but those are colleges not professional sports franchises. Teams are funded by tuition and every college basically has a 40-70,000 enrollement/student fan base built in + don't have to pay their athletes millions. (I know with NIL some do get that now). It also isn't one giant cohesive league where every team has to play each other twice.

NHL popularity also pales in comparison to college football which is basically religion in the USA.

Not comparable at all. The comparable leagues are NBA, MLB, MLS and none of those leagues have 36 teams so why should the NHL, (the smallest amongst them)?

The NHL is a different beast because it has 7 teams in Canada. The NFL has 32 teams in the US. MLB and NBA have 29 in the US. The NHL has just 25. If they want to grow the game in the US they could expand to Houston/Atlanta etc. The talent pool is there. AHL hockey is barely discernible from NHL hockey. Plenty of good players who could play in the NHL if given the opportunity. The NHL will have 36 teams sooner than people think.

 

[OVO16]

Cant speak for any other factors other then the fact that I think Utah would be a great hockey Market.

They will sell out every arena that's for sure. The Jazz in the NBA have a very loyal and strong following

So the biggest issue that exists is what the hell the city of Utah does right to make people go to games, because man this is being dropped on them fast

I dont think they have to do much. They're getting another professional sports team. They should be ecstatic

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Ok but those are colleges not professional sports franchises. Teams are funded by tuition and every college basically has a 40-70,000 enrollement/student fan base built in + don't have to pay their athletes millions. (I know with NIL some do get that now). It also isn't one giant cohesive league where every team has to play each other twice.

NHL popularity also pales in comparison to college football which is basically religion in the USA.

Not comparable at all. The comparable leagues are NBA, MLB, MLS and none of those leagues have 36 teams so why should the NHL, (the smallest amongst them)?

Well, you included college sports and the fact that they have 5X the number of teams haven't affected them at all.

All of the pro leagues you listed are looking to expand. NBA is looking at Seattle and Vegas and the MLB is actively looking at markets (I think Charlotte and Montreal was last I heard?). How is adding a few more teams going to hurt the league in any way? The NHL currently has the same average attendance as it did 16 years ago.

 

[Osakahaus]

I dont think they have to do much. They're getting another professional sports team. They should be ecstatic

well my biggest concern is that they have to make new logos, new ice stuff, and basically trademark new names as well. this move has to be done quickly IF the NHL wants to confirm it by the start of next season.

 

[Skidooboy]

My favorite part of the whole ordeal is a bunch of people people who have bitched and moaned about Arizona and their ownership now talking out of the other side of their mouth about how the fans are being wronged and the league is doing bad with this.

hey. I Have nothing but respect for the fans....

But that doesn't mean the market was ever supportive of the team, or having a team there is a good idea for the league, the rest of the NHL's fans, or the players.

And thinking that the BOG pounding a square peg into a round hole for 27 years was a terrible waste of money& time at the EXPENSE of fans and thier feelings in real hockey markets and the parade of liars.conmen and idiots they presented when real groups in passionate markets were told over and over again NO!!!!.... isn't "hating on the fans" or flip flopping by being sad for the few real fans the coyotes had.

 

[OVO16]

well my biggest concern is that they have to make new logos, new ice stuff, and basically trademark new names as well. this move has to be done quickly IF the NHL wants to confirm it by the start of next season.

I think they can make all that happen. Im sure this has been in the cards for months now without us knowing., Or at least I hope

 

[JKG33]

I think they can make all that happen. Im sure this has been in the cards for months now without us knowing., Or at least I hope

I dunno, Ryan Smith just recently posted a survey asking for name ideas. Seems like they're a bit earlier in the process then we think.

But really the name/logo etc are inconsequential to playing. The Jets drafted Scheifele with a blank NHL jersey. In the NFL, the redskins played a year as "Washington Football Team" while they rebranded. If we get a year of "Utah Hockey Club" that's not the end of the world

 

[Look Up]

If their was a thumbs down vote, you would get it. No way when I hear Utah (or Salt Lake City for that matter) and I think of Saints. Not in the least.

Anyone who went to a rave in the early 90's will get the connection.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

I think they can make all that happen. Im sure this has been in the cards for months now without us knowing., Or at least I hope

Obviously we don't know the specifics on things like logos and team names, but much like Winnipeg in 2011, seems obvious that Smith and SLC have been told to be ready for awhile now. I suspect the operational infrastructure is ready to go.

 

[joestevens29]

Imo how this all played out:

- Meruelo wanted to do everything possible to ensure he had a defence in court if the league every tried to rip the team away from him.
- League decided to massively overpay him with the relocation fees/buyouts with a signed agreement that he wouldn't turn this into a lengthy court battle.
- Knowing how desperate the league is for a team in arizona, Meruelo added the first buyer right (with a time limit) in case the league shows up the following year with a new ownership group + land agreements to build a new arena.

The end

Pretty much what I was thinking. That and trying to save face with the fans in showing he's tried everything humanly possible just in case he ever does get a team back.

I'm not even sure this whole land deal is actually Meruelo wanting it as much as let's say I'm interested to save face

 

[archangel2]

Exactly. Obviously they'd have drawings available of what if anything is under the land, where the nearest tie-ins are for utilities, things like that. I'd imagine for an auction like this some kind of soil/environmental report may be provided, but that I'm unsure.

Since they're pretty confident they'll win, they'd have all the engineered drawings pretty much ready to go, some materials on standby, which does save on a lot of time. But as you say until they start digging you never know what they could find, and project delays are often in the early stages of piling and excavations.

The subcontractors who get awarded projects of this size are pros at what they do, especially in a city as large as Phoenix. So the infrastructure stuff you're referring to is just another day in the office for them. Underground parking really isn't as difficult as it sounds, it's just means you have a deeper excavation and a lot more concrete work

The underground parking means they will need to dig deeper. The deeper you dig the more support for the buildings you will need. I understand underground parking isnot the issue but the issue is how it affects the building

 

[robertmac43]

"Washington Football Team" while they rebranded

Side note, as a Washington fan I wish they never went to Commanders and just stayed as "Football Team"

 

[JKG33]

The underground parking means they will need to dig deeper. The deeper you dig the more support for the buildings you will need. I understand underground parking isnot the issue but the issue is how it affects the building

The engineers would have that figured out long before plans are issued. It all ties together as one project, I'm not sure what potential issues you're seeing?

 

[BKarchitect]

To answer my own question earlier, for MSA and CSA ranks of cities with both the NBA and NHL competing for October-April dollars and schedule of an average sports fan:

New York - 1/1
Los Angeles - 2/1
Chicago - 3/4
Dallas - 4/6
Washington - 7/3
Philadelphia - 8/9
Boston - 11/7
Detroit - 14/12
Minneapolis - 16/16
Denver - 19/18
Salt Lake City - 46/22
(Toronto - 1 Canada)

CSA is far kinder to SLC where they 22nd because you get Ogden to the north and Provo to the south but the immediate MSA population of SLC is not very dense...the distances start to be pretty far but for fairness, travel times from 40-60 minutes from the north or south may not be that much worse than much shorter distances in big cities and ultimately, you'd build your base around that whole population not just strictly the Salt Lake Valley itself.

Yes, it definitely will be the smallest with both NBA and NHL, but all the other larger cities with both are also have MLB and NFL. Denver is currently the smallest at 3m population, compared to SLC's 2.3m.

To support both NBA at a smaller size, IMO the city needs an X factor. In this case, that's going to be winter sports.

The winter sports X-factor is a good point and something SLC will be able to market and hang their hat on. I still think in terms of the average NHL schedule and asking residents from farther and farther radius' outside the core to regularly fill up an area for both the NBA and NHL on a typical weekday evening is fairly unique here. The fans in this region may be totally up for it, but it's a bit of an outlier.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Imo how this all played out:

- Meruelo wanted to do everything possible to ensure he had a defence in court if the league every tried to rip the team away from him.
- League decided to massively overpay him with the relocation fees/buyouts with a signed agreement that he wouldn't turn this into a lengthy court battle.
- Knowing how desperate the league is for a team in arizona, Meruelo added the first buyer right (with a time limit) in case the league shows up the following year with a new ownership group + land agreements to build a new arena.

The end

Presuming what we're seeing reported is in fact accurate, I'll posit another scenario:

- Meruelo is having issues behind the scenes
- Those issues have caused the NHL to have to get involved with running the franchise in some way
- The NHL is trying to facilitate a sale without having to outright take over the franchise
- Meruelo is trying to "hail mary" his way to a solution where he keeps the franchise
- The NHL isn't telling him 'no' but it's setting really tight stops around it
- Any sale will get Meruelo back to where he was before buying the franchise, while also making the NHL whole for its interests
- Any promise of a future franchise is highly conditional, and may not even grant Meruelo first right of refusal [depending on what's going on in the first couple of points].

If the league is at the point a takeover is possible, I don't think it's worried about a court fight. I do think the league wants to avoid an outright takeover if at all possible, though.

But I'll state yet again: that's all speculation, no one really knows what's going on at the moment.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Anyone who went to a rave in the early 90's will get the connection.

Hah I was just thinking this. I had them on in the car on the way into work this morning