Per Friedman: Coyotes players told team moving to Utah starting next season (Mod warning post #50)

[PromisedLand]

move them to Canada

I think atlantic Canada could use a hockey team

 

[Lions67]

Saints is my choice

 

[PromisedLand]

Yes.

But i'd still say, its better to go with Utah something, instead of going with Salt Lake something.

It also sells better, the name, because of Utah Jazz

Phoenix Coyotes changed to Arizona Coyotes and .......

Chayka happened. I will never understand how that dude ever got the GM job to begin with

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Phoenix Coyotes changed to Arizona Coyotes and .......

touché

 

[BlueSeal]

Is there even a market for hockey in Salt Lake City?

P.S. What happens to the threads where Matthews was apparently going home?



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Average NHL attendance is something like 17,000, so those numbers are at least encouraging.

 

[PromisedLand]

Average NHL attendance is something like 17,000, so those numbers are at least encouraging.

They would have to have cheaptest tickets to at least build interest in the hockey club and would require NHL rink/arena

Thats a helluva lot of investment and/or risk taking for someone to bring hockey into a town where hockey may not be huge. That is why I asked if there as any interest in hockey to begin with in Utah or SLC

 

[SensontheRush]

AM won't be attached to the Coyotes next time around. Talk about completely destroying any goodwill remaining in the community. The market won't forget.

 

[BlueSeal]

They would have to have cheaptest tickets to at least build interest in the hockey club and would require NHL rink/arena

Thats a helluva lot of investment and/or risk taking for someone to bring hockey into a town where hockey may not be huge. That is why I asked if there as any interest in hockey to begin with in Utah or SLC

Honestly, I wouldn't think so, unless the team came in hot and made the playoffs the first year they were there and built off of that. The attendance numbers would be at the maximum in the first year out of novelty. If their front office could build something in the time they have before the move, it could work. They would just need time and the honest truth is the Yotes need a home and if they can't get one built in AZ, anywhere else will be an improvement, until it doesn't work again.

 

[SjMilhouse]

MSA (metropolitan statistical area) estimate is 1,267,864 for 2023. You may be looking at urban area population rather than metropolitan statistical area population.

CSA (combined statistical area) estimate is 2,805,734 for 2023.

CSA is probably a bit larger than is realistic but going off what would be roughly a max 45 minute drive to Delta Center you've got ~2m people between Davis County, Salt Lake County, and Utah County. The state has already committed close to $2b towards NHL and MLB stadiums and Smith specifically is planning further investment toward growing Utahs tech industry in one of the top business friendly states in the country.

I think the long term success of either an MLB or NHL team will be heavily dictated by how the state continues to grow and develop, but the government seems all in on doing everything they can to achieve those goals. Add in all the Olympic stuff coming and it makes sense to me.

Also, why the general Delta Center hate in here? People act like it's the Oakland Coliseum. It's not designed for hockey but I went to the frozen fury game this year and it's really not that bad. It would be a perfectly acceptable stop gap while a new stadium is built and is 3x the capacity of mullet before any potential upgrades/enhancements to accommodate a team in the short term.

 

[CraigBillington]

I would rather call, name them Utah something, Salt Lake something sounds, no offence, stupid/weird. - that soccer team is prove of that.

I mean, Denver Avalanche?... that would have sounded super weird.
There's a reason why Utah Jazz exists.

The stupid thing about the Salt Lake soccer team is that they ripped their name from Real Madrid - like most other MLS teams

 

[Guttersniped]

They would have to have cheaptest tickets to at least build interest in the hockey club and would require NHL rink/arena

Thats a helluva lot of investment and/or risk taking for someone to bring hockey into a town where hockey may not be huge. That is why I asked if there as any interest in hockey to begin with in Utah or SLC

Yes there was interest. The Salt Lake Golden Eagles played their from 1969-94, starting in the WHL.

The ECHL Utah Grizzlies started in 2005, so they’ve had that for a while.

 

[Vukotal Recall]

MSA (metropolitan statistical area) estimate is 1,267,864 for 2023. You may be looking at urban area population rather than metropolitan statistical area population.

CSA (combined statistical area) estimate is 2,805,734 for 2023.

The entire population of Utah is only 3.4 million, so the CSA isn't a particularly useful figure in this context (it encompasses over 120 miles away from downtown).

 

[SjMilhouse]

Yes there was interest. The Salt Lake Golden Eagles played their from 1969-94, starting in the WHL.

The ECHL Utah Grizzlies started in 2005, so they’ve had that for a while.

Grizzlies average 5k+ fans a game and have been steadily increasing average attendance year over year for like 10 years....for an ECHL team. So we know an NHL team would do at least as well as the Coyotes do now at Mullet

The entire population of Utah is only 3.4 million, so the CSA isn't a particularly useful figure in this context (it encompasses over 120 miles away from downtown).

~2m people in Davis, Utah, and Salt Lake County which would be <60 minute drive to Delta at the max. A lot of that would be within 30 minutes

 

[BlueSeal]

CSA is probably a bit larger than is realistic but going off what would be roughly a max 45 minute drive to Delta Center you've got ~2m people between Davis County, Salt Lake County, and Utah County. The state has already committed close to $2b towards NHL and MLB stadiums and Smith specifically is planning further investment toward growing Utahs tech industry in one of the top business friendly states in the country.

I think the long term success of either an MLB or NHL team will be heavily dictated by how the state continues to grow and develop, but the government seems all in on doing everything they can to achieve those goals. Add in all the Olympic stuff coming and it makes sense to me.

Also, why the general Delta Center hate in here? People act like it's the Oakland Coliseum. It's not designed for hockey but I went to the frozen fury game this year and it's really not that bad. It would be a perfectly acceptable stop gap while a new stadium is built and is 3x the capacity of mullet before any potential upgrades/enhancements to accommodate a team in the short term.

I grew up in Oakland and kind of take offense to that (before realizing and laughing at what you meant). The Coliseum isn't built for it but that other stadium about 100 feet from it sure is. Hell, the Seals played there. Still an event center but if you look at all the bones too long it'll depress you.

But you're right. The Delta Center would be.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Move 'em. This saga has gone on long enough. Coyotes have never turned a profit in their years in Arizona. Should have been taken care of long ago imo.

They've turned a profit several times lol

 

[Some Other Flame]

 

[hangman005]

I predict if this happens the arena curse of the franchise comes full force and during renovations Delta arena collapses and for one reason or another we get a 20 year saga of Salt Lake and their arena.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

So is this like a done deal? lol

 

[rt]

So is this like a done deal? lol

90-95% if you believe Seravalli and Friedman. Who state that the NHL, Meruelo and Smith camps are working around the clock to get this done before the last Coyotes game of the season. It’s important to them to be able to close this prior to breakup day.

I believe Seravalli and Friedman. I believe it’s as good as done.

For me personally, it’s a bummer. I’ve been a fan since they moved here in 1996. I was in 5th grade and watched the draft (Focht and Briere) every game on tv. And I haven’t stopped since. Honestly, the team really beat the fan out of me a long time ago.

My main concern is what this will do to the community, here. Especially the hockey community. And especially youth hockey. That’s the part of this that weighs heavy. I don’t really care that much about the team itself, per se. More about what the team means in terms of community support, especially with community rinks and youth programs.

I coach two house league teams. I have sons who play. I’m a beer leaguer, myself. We go to AAA tournaments. We went to the state HS championship. The Skatin’ for Leighton events for Coyotes charities. Hockey is a big part of my life and my family’s life. Watching NHL games live is not a priority of mine. The greater hockey community is. And I’m much more worried about that.

 

[ItWasJustified]

They’ve actually been profitable the last few seasons
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What's the source for this? And answer say Forbes.

I coach two house league teams. I have sons who play. I’m a beer leaguer, myself. We go to AAA tournaments. We went to the state HS championship. The Skatin’ for Leighton events for Coyotes charities. Hockey is a big part of my life and my family’s life. Watching NHL games live is not a priority of mine. The greater hockey community is. And I’m much more worried about that.

I don't think 5 years without NHL hockey is going to change things. Arizona will get a expansion team at the same time as Atlanta before 2030 if there's an arena in place.

 

[rt]

— if there's an arena in place.

That’s a big if.

 

[archangel2]

You're bang on. I'm in construction project management and there's always delays. A 3.5 year turnaround on a project with this scope is extremely optimistic. However I'm in Winnipeg, where we have to deal with the cold and working 24 hrs is damn near unheard of. If anywhere can pull it off, it'd be somewhere in the southern US like Arizona.

I will say this too, while there's more to do in Arizona, it's a lot easier to accomplish in a relatively middle of nowhere area than it is downtown. Material deliveries and management is infinitely easier when you've got space.

Granted, this timeline still feels quite optimistic given they don't even have the land yet. Moving the team takes the pressure off, and they can do it right if it takes a year longer

So you understand my logic about when the start to dig and until they start to dig they wont know what they are up against and how long will it take to put the basic infrastructure in.. It looks like 75% of the parking will be underground? Also, we are not just talking the arena build, but it looks like phase one is about 1/4 of the project and that is a large area in 3.5 years. And like you said they have not broken ground yet. Then you have all of studies they have to do BEFORE they break ground

 

[archangel2]

They’ve actually been profitable the last few seasons
View attachment 849682

Need to show the math on this and remove any money they get from the NHL to underwrite the season To put it in context. Star Wars: The Empire strikes back has yet to make money; profit and lose sheets are fun to play with and you can make them look however you like depending on the parameters you are using. lets do some basic math here. The Arena seats 4700k let say every single person there is spending $400 bucks a night and lets factor in X games and give them 47 home games this year--all sold out and everyone spending that $400 a night. That makes it $88.36 mill from home games. The cap hit for Arizona is between 67 to 70mil. The NHL does not have a big NHL contract and is gate driven. My question is, what is not being factored in the expenses report that is making it look like they have more money,


This is now about the 20th time I have seen that graph but they do not show the breakdown of how they got those results and who are they getting them from.

 

[majormajor]

I'm puzzled by the site for this land auction that is presumably going to be where they put an arena for a new expansion Coyotes.

On the map it is on the far north / northeast corner of the Phoenix metro area, about 20 miles from downtown Phoenix, and about 20 miles from Glendale, Tempe, and Mesa. Further from Chandler and Gilbert. A very large portion of the metro can't get there in traffic.

If you're buying land for an arena, why not go for something more central? Land use in the Phoenix Metro is full of low intensity pockets with low value. There's land near the center with miles and miles of parking lots and what looks like a scattering of low value land uses.

Is there a need to get away from the Footprint Center (the Suns arena), to avoid competition and capture a new market? Or does Meruelo want to purchase an enormous area of land because he's really more interested in doing a giant entertainment district, rather than just a sports arena?

 

[Tawnos]

The entire population of Utah is only 3.4 million, so the CSA isn't a particularly useful figure in this context (it encompasses over 120 miles away from downtown).

That’s only because the census bureau requires full counties to be included in the Metropolitan Statistical Areas that make up the CSA and some of the counties there are physically huge. Few people live in the areas of those counties that are outside of the Wasatch Valley.

If you look at Urban Areas, which don’t require full county inclusion and have housing density requirements, there are 2.3m people in the SLC, Provo, and Ogden areas combined. While the three are classified separately as Urban Areas, and even MSAs, combining them gives you the more appropriate statistics for the SLC market.