Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[Gurglesons]

If we had those 3 players we would have minimum 10 more points. Very least. Even with Sully being Sully.

Matheson and Marino are absolutely terrible this year defensively.

We'd probably have less points if we kept them.

 

[Jacob]

I certainly don’t think we’re getting a higher pick for Smith than we gave up for him. Especially at the deadline where half the teams won’t be in the running and of the other half few will have the cap space.

Maybe a 5th and it’s to someone like Colorado or Minnesota.

Can VGK even re-acquire him less than 1 year after they traded him?

 

[metalan2]

Those two players are vastly better than Graves and Ruhwedel. There is near zero chance we would be worse with them.

 

[Gurglesons]

Those two players are vastly better than Graves and Ruhwedel. There is near zero chance we would be worse with them.

I mean, I would hope that the players adding up to 9 million are better than Graves and Ruhwedel who add up to around what just Matheson costs...

And they aren't this year from a defensive perspective. People just want to look over the fence and act like they are.

Marino is currently putting up a GA per 60 at the same clip as Klingberg did this year.

When Graves is on the ice the Penguins are generating and defending better than when Matheson and Marino (Marino is better offensively) are.

When Ruhwedel is on the ice the Penguins are generating and defending better than when Matheson and Marino (Marino is better offensively) are lol..

 

[Empoleon8771]

Going once more back to Guentzel, I think it could make sense to take back Bunting for cap reasons if they end up trading Guentzel to Carolina. Dubas obviously loves him and he brings a bit of feistiness that this team lacks. He's not a tough guy, but he's at least way rattier than pretty much anyone else they have.

Bunting isn't young, but he's also not super old either. I actually wonder if you could flip Bunting for value immediately if you'd take him back in a Guentzel deal, but I also think it might be a good idea to hold onto him and wait for the cap to rise a bit more.

I certainly don’t think we’re getting a higher pick for Smith than we gave up for him. Especially at the deadline where half the teams won’t be in the running and of the other half few will have the cap space.

Maybe a 5th and it’s to someone like Colorado or Minnesota.

Can VGK even re-acquire him less than 1 year after they traded him?

Niederreiter was traded for a 2nd rounder last year and he is extremely comparable to Smith.

I also don't think off-season deals are applicable to deadline deals and vice-versa. The situations for a trade in the off-season and deadline are just fundamentally different, notably due to pro-rating cap space.

 

[Lustaf]

The former Flyer legend Jeff Carter is a Penguin when he can't keep up with the pace of the NHL anymore because of Ron Hextal.

That's more than enough reason to be glad he's gone.

 

[ChaosAgent]

FWIW I didn't think Hextall did anything that terrible until the Granlund trade.

Dubas, jury is out. I dont blame him for trying with Karlsson, but now that it is apparent that Karlsson does not know what he is doing 5-on-4 it won't work out. Good gamble. He misjudged Zucker's market leading to a downgrade with Smith. Graves sucks now but I could see him bouncing back at some point and is being able to move on. Hextall also failed to sell high on Dumoulin 2 years ago, we should have thrown POJ into the deep end of the pool at that point.

What Dubas did that annoyed me was burning like $6m of cap on a collection of nothingness, a hodgepodge of nothingness of you will, in the bottom six. As opposed to going for quality. Or bringing back Zucker even with Smith once it was apparent Zuck could be had for $3-4m

 

[Darren McCord]

Hextall barely did anything.

There isn't a single move Hextall made that set this team back anything.

Hextall moved on from younger players and got older. that was my biggest problem.

Marino sucks but he had value. I get Ty Smith not getting a shot is on sullivan but dont make that move if your coach isnt going to play the guy.
I know your thoughts on McCann but he had more value than Carter and TB. TB could have been easily replaced by signing Gaudreau.
Resigning Kap to two years after it was clear sullivan didn't like him was dumb.
I get Matheson to Petry but Petry fell off hard. It also obliterated the LD depth.

Hextall still moved out a lot of picks. Not first but he moved out almost every second round pick the pens had.

 

[Ryder71]

Haven't paid much attention today, Are the Canucks out of the mix regarding Jake?

 

[Jacob]

Going once more back to Guentzel, I think it could make sense to take back Bunting for cap reasons if they end up trading Guentzel to Carolina. Dubas obviously loves him and he brings a bit of feistiness that this team lacks. He's not a tough guy, but he's at least way rattier than pretty much anyone else they have.

Bunting isn't young, but he's also not super old either. I actually wonder if you could flip Bunting for value immediately if you'd take him back in a Guentzel deal, but I also think it might be a good idea to hold onto him and wait for the cap to rise a bit more.



Niederreiter was traded for a 2nd rounder last year and he is extremely comparable to Smith.

I also don't think off-season deals are applicable to deadline deals and vice-versa. The situations for a trade in the off-season and deadline are just fundamentally different, notably due to pro-rating cap space.

Maybe. But with how he’s playing I just figure his value is lower now than it was after just winning the Cup. I’m expecting 3rd or less.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hextall moved on from younger players and got older. that was my biggest problem.

Marino sucks but he had value. I get Ty Smith not getting a shot is on sullivan but dont make that move if your coach isnt going to play the guy.
I know your thoughts on McCann but he had more value than Carter and TB. TB could have been easily replaced by signing Gaudreau.
Resigning Kap to two years after it was clear sullivan didn't like him was dumb.
I get Matheson to Petry but Petry fell off hard. It also obliterated the LD depth.

Hextall still moved out a lot of picks. Not first but he moved out almost every second round pick the pens had.

Marino was a cap dump. He brought back a solid prospect and a 3rd round pick. That was about as best as you were getting when you were attempting dump cap last year. Bjorkstrand went for way less.

 

[Nakawick]

I hope that Dubas is able to land a young center when we move out pieces. Even if we just get picks/prospects at the deadline, I hope he is able to flip or trade some for a younger player that can learn from Sid. Right now there is no one for Sid to mentor.

 

[Gurglesons]

The former Flyer legend Jeff Carter is a Penguin when he can't keep up with the pace of the NHL anymore because of Ron Hextal.

That's more than enough reason to be glad he's gone.

Jeff Carter is a Penguin because of Mike Sullivan.

There is absolutely no reason Jeff Carter needs to be playing right now.

This is the same reason Jared McCann is gone. Mike Sullivan.

John Marino if we are to believe the rumors as well.

Matheson seems like someone Sullivan liked, but Montreal asked for.

 

[Ryder71]

Maybe. But with how he’s playing I just figure his value is lower now than it was after just winning the Cup. I’m expecting 3rd or less.

At worst we'll get what we paid.

 

[Darren McCord]

Marino was a cap dump. He brought back a solid prospect and a 3rd round pick. That was about as best as you were getting when you were attempting dump cap last year. Bjorkstrand went for way less.

I believe he could have fetch a 2nd without Smith. Hextall and sullivan were never on the same page for whatever reason.

 

[Gurglesons]

At worst we'll get what we paid.

I'll be shocked if we move Smith without retention unless Vegas is willing to take him back or a team is swapping us a comparable salary.

 

[Empoleon8771]

FWIW I didn't think Hextall did anything that terrible until the Granlund trade.

Dubas, jury is out. I dont blame him for trying with Karlsson, but now that it is apparent that Karlsson does not know what he is doing 5-on-4 it won't work out. Good gamble. He misjudged Zucker's market leading to a downgrade with Smith. Graves sucks now but I could see him bouncing back at some point and is being able to move on. Hextall also failed to sell high on Dumoulin 2 years ago, we should have thrown POJ into the deep end of the pool at that point.

What Dubas did that annoyed me was burning like $6m of cap on a collection of nothingness, a hodgepodge of nothingness of you will, in the bottom six. As opposed to going for quality. Or bringing back Zucker even with Smith once it was apparent Zuck could be had for $3-4m

I mean Hextall did the same exact thing.

 

[Darren McCord]

What Dubas did that annoyed me was burning like $6m of cap on a collection of nothingness

Like the almost six million for McGinn and Kap? Both these last GM's were awful with the bottom 6.

 

[Gurglesons]

I believe he could have fetch a 2nd without Smith. Hextall and sullivan were never on the same page for whatever reason.

I mean you can believe it, but nobody was paying for players that summer. Like I said, Bjorkstrand was given away.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The difference between Hextall and Dubas is that Dubas clearly has had a plan from the moment he was hired.

The plan over the summer was to load up on the top six forwards and top four defensemen for offense and to use the bottom pair defense and the bottom six forwards to be stout defensively. The latter part worked. The Penguins are one of the stingiest teams in the league.

The problem is the offense has completely cratered. That was the risk with the plan, but it's really been worse than anyone could have expected. Not only has the bottom six not contributed close to career norms, but even trustworthy players like Rakell and Smith have struggled immensely, as has the power play.

So, the plan failed. Dubas has said as much. But there was at least a coherent strategy.

And now, Dubas has laid out another coherent strategy - start selling off pieces to get younger.

Hextall did the opposite. He had no organized plan on how he wanted to construct the team. He just made them older. The Carter extension. The Granlund trade. The Rust and Rakell extensions. The Petry trade. Each deal made this team older and less competitive. Hextall could have easily let Rust or Rakell walk and brought in a different type of forward in their place. He didn't.

We'll see what happens at the deadline, but at least Dubas seems to be willing to acknowledge when a plan doesn't come together and the need to change course.

 

[Gurglesons]

Like the almost six million for McGinn and Kap? Both these last GM's were awful with the bottom 6.

Brock McGinn would be a godsend compared to Nieto and Acciari lol.

Acciari is the biggest reason I think that the roster decisions aren't even the GMs fault at this point.

 

[Ryder71]

I'll be shocked if we move Smith without retention unless Vegas is willing to take him back or a team is swapping us a comparable salary.

We'll do fine this trade deadline, this and the draft will be the only things to look forward to for a while. Well, unless you like to watch prospect in juniors or abroad.

 

[Darren McCord]

Brock McGinn would be a godsend compared to Nieto and Acciari lol.

Acciari is the biggest reason I think that the roster decisions aren't even the GMs fault at this point.

I really do believe Sullivan is the reason why the bottom 6 sucks and continues to bring in trash.

McGinn before Sullivan would be. Sullivan broke both McGinn and Kap beyond repair.

McGinn has 3 pts this year.

 

[Gurglesons]

We'll do fine this trade deadline, this and the draft will be the only things to look forward to for a while. Well, unless you like to watch prospect in juniors or abroad.

Dubas allegedly doesn't want picks. So the draft isn't going to be very fun for us. We currently have 3 picks outside of the 7th lol.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Also, this ultimately doesn't matter, but I love how the people who were preaching patience with Hextall while Pens X was calling him sleepy in his first year are now crushing Dubas less than a year into the job.