Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[HandshakeLine]

I wish I could figure out what the common denominator was to all of our struggles over multiple GMs, rosters, and two different ownerships.

 

[Empoleon8771]

 

[Darren McCord]

Hextall's first year they won the metro actually.

Yes 2021. Which was JR's team outside of Carter. I said that. Hextall deserves no credit for that.

Hextall true first year was 2021-2022 and they finished third.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes 2021. Which was JR's team outside of Carter. I said that. Hextall deserves no credit for that.

Hextall true first year was 2021-2022 and they finished third.

This is something Josh Yohe would say.

 

[Darren McCord]

This is something Josh Yohe would say.

Lmao ya.

No one is arguing with you that Dubas hasnt been great. But you are coming off as a Hextall defender where that dude was straight up trash.

Dubas might be worse in the future but hes is not worse now.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Matheson is better than EK because he's not an indecisive useless shit on our Powerplay. Plus he is faster.

And yes, EK sucks on the Powerplay and San Jose's historic numbers bear this out.

Granlund got multiple people fired. And the worst part according to one poster is we traded for a guy with multiple years of term! Huge no no in the NHL apparently

McCann could run our 2nd line since he doesn't have shooting tips like Malkin. Since we whine about how bad Malkin's linemates are at finishing when he himself has developed a yippy muffin shot. Malkin could be on his wing.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Marino sucks ass.

McCann is a nobody.

Matheson is a nobody.

Crying over these players is a sign you are a loser, tbh.

None of those players are ever going to win a cup. Marino is probably traded by the Devils within two years.



It's hilarious that Buffalo, Ottawa, PIT, WAS, and NJ all made huge moves to get in the playoffs and Detroit and Philly are the ones who are potentially getting the two spots.

Crying over tanking value is just that, tanking value. Not only that, a continuous to keep tanking value to rid more of the players that replaced them. Then using draft capital to try and replace them.

It's a viscous cycle 'til there's nothing left.

 

[Gurglesons]

Matheson is better than EK because he's not an indecisive useless shit on our Powerplay. Plus he is faster.

And yes, EK sucks on the Powerplay and San Jose's historic numbers bear this out.

Granlund got multiple people fired. And the worst part according to one poster is we traded for a guy with multiple years of term! Huge no no in the NHL apparently

McCann could run our 2nd line since he doesn't have shooting tips like Malkin. Since we whine about how bad Malkin's linemates are at finishing when he himself has developed a yippy muffin shot. Malkin could be on his wing.

Lmao ya.

No one is arguing with you that Dubas hasnt been great. But you are coming off as a Hextall defender where that dude was straight up trash.

Dubas might be worse in the future but hes is not worse now.

Hextall got the team to the playoffs in his actual first year here and the (second) first year you want to attribute to him for some weird reason.

Dubas completely f***ed up this team in literally the span of 4 weeks.

His UFA made Hextall's look like the Louvre.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I wish I could figure out what the common denominator was to all of our struggles over multiple GMs, rosters, and two different ownerships.

I just wish we could be run like a futbol club

They sack the hell out of coaches and drop players that suck or cost too much all the time

 

[HandshakeLine]

Dubas might be worse in the future but hes is not worse now.

I still don't get this argument. What has Dubas done that has been good besides the EK trade? Every other trade and UFA signing was a mess this year. We haven't fixed any of the huge problems which were actually fixable.

I think Hextall was terrible, but at the same time, I really fail to see what Dubas has done that has been better so far besides the EK trade. And somehow, I think that makes him worse for squandering the reigning Norris winning 100 pt. blueliner.

 

[Gurglesons]

I still don't get this argument. What has Dubas done that has been good besides the EK trade? Every other trade and UFA signing was a mess this year. We haven't fixed any of the huge problems which were actually fixable.

If Dubas would've just not done anything this off season but re-sign the players that were here and kept the roster the same we would've been a better team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Back to the Guentzel trade talks, I was looking a bit closer at Carolina and I think they have some really enticing pieces to be targeting in terms of prospects. I think Nadeau would be a given to be included, he was their 1st rounder last year who's doing really well in the NCAA this year (39 points in 32 games as a freshman). Beyond him, I really like Koivunen, who's lighting up the Liiga this year (20 goals and 53 points in 56 games as a 20 year old). Scott Morrow is another interesting guy, although I don't think he has progressed as well as he was anticipated to progress.

I think it might be a bit too rich to ask for a 1st on top of those 2 guys, though. I've been getting that feeling with Vegas regarding my Brisson, Korczak/Dorofeyev and a 1st ask as well, I think asking for a 1st on top of those 2 good prospects is really aggressive. I'd probably revise my trade expectations to:

-Vegas: Brisson, Korczak/Dorofeyev and a 2024 2nd
-Carolina: Nadeau, Koivunen/Morrow and a 2024 2nd
-Florida: Samoskevich, Sawchyn and a 2025 2nd

Interesting discussion to have: how would you value Jack Devine from Florida? He was a 2022 7th rounder, but he's absolutely dominating at the University of Denver with 49 points in 34 games. At the same time, it seems like Denver is a powerhouse offensively, so I think those totals may be a bit inflated.

 

[Ryder71]

Not really.

Our coach has refused to adapt to the league and refuses to play youth.

This team should've easily made the playoffs this year. GM sat on his hands hard and gave Mike Sullivan rope.

Who cares if they make playoffs and get their heads kicked in. We haven't won a playoff series in SIX years! The party is over. Pretty amazing we were in the mix a couple years ago. You guys are holding onto your relics and not understanding that these guys are far beyond their primes.

Honestly from 2010 to 2015, injuries not withstanding, THOSE were the years that were squandered. Being upset in those years when Sid, Geno, Letang, Kunitz, MAF ETC were in their primes, now THAT you can bitch about. That makes perfect sense. But not now, not when they're old and feeble. No coach will turn back the clock. Bring in the best coach ever and we're still inept and aged out.

 

[Gurglesons]

Who cares if they make playoffs and get their heads kicked in. We haven't won a playoff series in SIX years! The party is over. Pretty amazing we were in the mix a couple years ago. You guys are holding onto your relics and not understanding that these guys are far beyond their primes.

Honestly from 2010 to 2015, injuries not withstanding, THOSE were the years that were squandered. Being upset in those years when Sid, Geno, Letang, Kunitz, MAF ETC were in their primes, now THAT you can bitch about. That makes perfect sense. But not now, not when they're old and feeble. No coach will turn back the clock. Bring in the best coach ever and we're still inept and aged out.

Such a loser mentality.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Who cares if they make playoffs and get their heads kicked in. We haven't won a playoff series in SIX years! The party is over. Pretty amazing we were in the mix a couple years ago. You guys are holding onto your relics and not understanding that these guys are far beyond their primes.

Honestly from 2010 to 2015, injuries not withstanding, THOSE were the years that were squandered. Being upset in those years when Sid, Geno, Letang, Kunitz, MAF ETC were in their primes, now THAT you can bitch about. That makes perfect sense. But not now, not when they're old and feeble. No coach will turn back the clock. Bring in the best coach ever and we're still inept and aged out.

This is a fact. The squandering happened in 2012 and 2014 and when Boston obliterated us in 2013.

Could we have done better in 2020-2022 by firing Sully? Maybe, but they would not have been in the inner circle of cup contenders.

 

[Gurglesons]

Crying over tanking value is just that, tanking value. Not only that, a continuous to keep tanking value to rid more of the players that replaced them. Then using draft capital to try and replace them.

It's a viscous cycle 'til there's nothing left.

Dubas gave away Poehling and paid a team to take Petry for nothing.

Sullivan has not given Ty Smith one shift in the NHL this year despite him leading WBS in scoring.

What is Hextall supposed to do about that?

Petry is on a playoff team.

Poehling would be outscoring every addition Dubas added besides Eller.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Who knows what we would have been, because we didn't do it.

 

[Ryder71]

Such a loser mentality.

No, it's a very realistic mentality. SID, GENO, LETANG at 27 far different than at 37. No matter how you slice it that's the situation. YOU just can't accept it. YOU just believe that these guys are same as they were in 2009, or 2016, it doesn't work that way.

 

[ChaosAgent]

No, it's a very realistic mentality. SID, GENO, LETANG at 27 far different than at 37. No matter how you slice it that's the situation. YOU just can't accept it. YOU just believe that these guys are same as they were in 2009, or 2016, it doesn't work that way.

People with small aspirations may be losers, but people with delusions of unrealistic success are responsible for the vast majority of war and suffering in the history of the world lol

 

[Ryder71]

This is a fact. The squandering happened in 2012 and 2014 and when Boston obliterated us in 2013.

Could we have done better in 2020-2022 by firing Sully? Maybe, but they would not have been in the inner circle of cup contenders.

Yep! Amazes me just how certain posters can't accept the relics have seen better days. They just can't accept this core is done winning. It's almost a sickness.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, it's a very realistic mentality. SID, GENO, LETANG at 27 far different than at 37. No matter how you slice it that's the situation. YOU just can't accept it. YOU just believe that these guys are same as they were in 2009, or 2016, it doesn't work that way.

I don't believe they are the same at all. But they are still effective players.

Letang has 6 goals and 27 points at 5v5 this year in 58 games.

He had 3 goals and 7 points at 5v5 in 13-14 at 5v5 in 37 games.

The undoing is clearly by the coach not the players.

 

[Empoleon8771]

People do realize that Montreal later traded Petry for literally nothing as well, right? Dubas "paid to get rid of Petry" because he was a terrible asset that had negative value at his salary. The Habs retained 50% of his deal and got back a 4th for him, then he has continued to suck with Detroit.

It's almost like Ron Hextall acquired a 35 year old defenseman on the downswing of his career, and he continued to decline into cap dump levels.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yep! Amazes me just how certain posters can't accept the relics have seen better days. They just can't accept this core is done winning. It's almost a sickness.

Yeah, me neither because nobody is saying that.

 

[Darren McCord]

I still don't get this argument. What has Dubas done that has been good besides the EK trade? Every other trade and UFA signing was a mess this year. We haven't fixed any of the huge problems which were actually fixable.

I think Hextall was terrible, but at the same time, I really fail to see what Dubas has done that has been better so far besides the EK trade. And somehow, I think that makes him worse for squandering the reigning Norris winning 100 pt. blueliner.

I think both their biggest fails were not firing sullivan.

Dubas had a pretty awfully UFA yes but if he sells this year than he improved over hextall who should have sold last year. Zucker might have fetch a first or good prospect. They lost a 2nd trading for Granlund.

Again I dont think Dubas has done a ton of good. I just dont think he has done as much bad yet as Hextall did.

 

[Ryder71]

People with small aspirations may be losers, but people with delusions of unrealistic success are responsible for the vast majority of war and suffering in the history of the world lol

I have high aspirations, as far as the return we get from trading Jake. THAT'S where the focus should be. Starting anew and building up our prospect pool, our draft picks, getting younger, that's what matters now.