Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[BusinessGoose]

JR acquired Kapanen. Kapanen is a 30+ pt player under the Penguins. Sullivan’s usage of him is moronic.

What do you think the terms would have been if they just let it go to arbitration instead of hammering out a contract with Kap after the qualifying offer?

*EDIT... I think i quoted the wrong post by you, but whatever, I'm just curious what the terms COULD have been anyway, as a discussion

 

[Gurglesons]

What do you think the terms would have been if they just let it go to arbitration instead of hammering out a contract with Kap after the qualifying offer?

*EDIT... I think i quoted the wrong post by you, but whatever, I'm just curious what the terms COULD have been anyway, as a discussion

3+ mil

 

[BusinessGoose]

2 years though?

 

[Gurglesons]

2 years though?

Who cares.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I was more sad Sprong was let go than Id ever be if KK was.

And Sprong was terrible here.

Rather just not have 3mil eating nachos for two years when the team has $27 in cap space

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Ah yes, the usual hate for Kapanen coming on hard now that he's been a healthy scratch. Unfortunate really, I think Kapanen would have been a great fit if he wasn't beaten down in his first full season after the shortened pandemic one, they took up to year 3 to finally utilize him on the PK and by then, they had already murdered his usage, messed with his placement in the line-up, and seemingly confused the kid on what they wanted out of him rather than using him for his skillset.

I hope he's traded just so I can see what he can really do when utilized properly to see the collective giant babies here go on their usual hate tirade about the ex-Penguin when they succeed elsewhere.

In any case, I actually came in to say Poehling has been pretty solid this season and it's a shame Jeff Carter is still here as he's blocking the way for Blueger and now Poehling as well. That move he made to find Malkin, I feel like there's more of that to his game if Sullivan didn't give him punishing usage.


Imagine not benching the player that has 2 assists, 0 goals, is a -6 in his last 14 games, basically keeping him in the line-up because the player had a good stretch for his first 5 games. Yet Kapanen is punished for his 13 games with 1g, 4a and is a -3.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I was more sad Sprong was let go than Id ever be if KK was.

And Sprong was terrible here.

Rather just not have 3mil eating nachos for two years when the team has $27 in cap space

Then you never understood the issues that were present when Sprong was here vs what's going on with Kapanen.

Sprong had so many problems that were caused by JR, MJ, and Sullivan that by the time he was traded, they made it so they had to trade him because they f***ed up his ELC and waiver eligibility. Then instead of actually trying to put him in positions to succeed, Sullivan showed his first signs of his current arrogant and ignorant usage of young players - He tried to make him learn the grinder's game. He refused to use him with Malkin or Crosby for more than a shift and by then, he was Tangradi'd by Bylsma Sullivan. That sort of developmental damage can completely derail players and some can bounce back, but a lot really don't because as much as blokes here like to play the whole sympathy card about concussions and depression and other stuff, they completely lack the understanding of how badly a lack of confidence can hurt someone in a profession that if he goes on long enough, its hard to shake and can ruin your entire career.

Which leads me into Kapanen. When he came on board, he was able to play his game because he really didn't have the coach and his style in his head yet, he was sick, came in late, played with Malkin and played his game and produced. Then Sullivan's coaching philosophy reared its ugly head. He didn't want to use Kapanen on the PK, he wanted him to play a 2-way game that he wanted to see vs the one that Kapanen had already been playing and playing well with Toronto which lead him to be one of their top forwards for PK usage during his time there. It's the same issues we saw with Marino vs the one with the Devils. I see a John Marino that isn't afraid to make mistakes and is playing a more confident game.

The only thing I will agree with you on is that Kapanen should go, but not for the same reasons because you lack understanding for why.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Cause 60% of this board would rather be right about the team stinking than anything else.

I think 80% of that 60% know that this team doesn't stink because of the roster, but because of the Coach and that's also the same group that knows why Marino is doing well. I'm not sure why we all have this argument when most of us know the issue is the coaching staff. Namely the head coach and his idiotic usage and lack of evolving his current team's system to take advantage of his roster. Instead he thinks what won in 2015 should work in 2022-23.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think 80% of that 60% know that this team doesn't stink because of the roster, but because of the Coach and that's also the same group that knows why Marino is doing well. I'm not sure why we all have this argument when most of us know the issue is the coaching staff. Namely the head coach and his idiotic usage and lack of evolving his current team's system to take advantage of his roster. Instead he thinks what won in 2015 should work in 2022-23.

Realistically I think Marino is doing well because of Jersey’s top four on LD and the fact they have Hamilton and Severson to insulate him.

Far cry from Matheson, Dumo and Petts and Letang and Ruh.

Realistically a move would have been

Petts - Petry
Dumo - Marino
POJ - Rutta

Which is what I argued for.

 

[Turin]

Realistically I think Marino is doing well because of Jersey’s top four on LD and the fact they have Hamilton and Severson to insulate him.

Far cry from Matheson, Dumo and Petts and Letang and Ruh.

Realistically a move would have been

Petts - Petry
Dumo - Marino
POJ - Rutta

Which is what I argued for.

Would have been horrible come off the season Letang had and likely still bad despite Letang’s bad start.

 

[Gurglesons]

Would have been horrible come off the season Letang had and likely still bad despite Letang’s bad start.

Nah. Sometimes you just gotta cut bait.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Realistically I think Marino is doing well because of Jersey’s top four on LD and the fact they have Hamilton and Severson to insulate him.

Far cry from Matheson, Dumo and Petts and Letang and Ruh.

Realistically a move would have been

Petts - Petry
Dumo - Marino
POJ - Rutta

Which is what I argued for.

I don't think it's insulation vs him playing with a D partner that works for him. It's not any different than what the Pens or any other team tries to make a solid top pair or 2nd pair. Dumoulin and Letang worked great together for that same reason, they complimented each other's game. Marino had a style that really didn't compliment anyone we had because it was never the right fit and then the coaching was also dreadful, never really gave him or others currently on the roster and recently departed to other teams, a fair shot.

The biggest change is adding McGill from the VGK to coach that D properly and utilize their strengths with the right pairings - Something he did masterfully in VGK with what they had while he was there, especially early on when they were incredible with the transition game and working as a strong unit. Severson btw, severely underrated, 2yrs ago he was almost on the outs as he wasn't living up to that big 6yr deal, last season and this season his value is pretty damn high and the Devils adding Marino and Nemec insulates them in a smart way if they do decide to move on from Severson to add elsewhere and that add can be massive given the value Severson holds, his age, skillset, underrated defensive play while also being a solid 40+ Defenseman.

I mean I guess you will always fight your position on this and thats fine, but it's just not what it is.

Also their pairings are...

Siegenthaler - Hamilton
Graves - Marino
Smith - Severson

They rely heavily on Marino and Graves honestly is the right pairing for him, if we had kept Marino and had a LHD version of Rutta, he'd probably do well here even with Sullivan's idiocy in the way.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think it's insulation vs him playing with a D partner that works for him. It's not any different than what the Pens or any other team tries to make a solid top pair or 2nd pair. Dumoulin and Letang worked great together for that same reason, they complimented each other's game. Marino had a style that really didn't compliment anyone we had because it was never the right fit and then the coaching was also dreadful, never really gave him or others currently on the roster and recently departed to other teams, a fair shot.

The biggest change is adding McGill from the VGK to coach that D properly and utilize their strengths with the right pairings - Something he did masterfully in VGK with what they had while he was there, especially early on when they were incredible with the transition game and working as a strong unit. Severson btw, severely underrated, 2yrs ago he was almost on the outs as he wasn't living up to that big 6yr deal, last season and this season his value is pretty damn high and the Devils adding Marino and Nemec insulates them in a smart way if they do decide to move on from Severson to add elsewhere and that add can be massive given the value Severson holds, his age, skillset, underrated defensive play while also being a solid 40+ Defenseman.

I mean I guess you will always fight your position on this and thats fine, but it's just not what it is.

Also their pairings are...

Siegenthaler - Hamilton
Graves - Marino
Smith - Severson

They rely heavily on Marino and Graves honestly is the right pairing for him, if we had kept Marino and had a LHD version of Rutta, he'd probably do well here even with Sullivan's idiocy in the way.

Fair.

Either way, I love my boy Petry.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Fair.

Either way, I love my boy Petry.

I like Petry and I am on the record as not liking the move early in the off season when it happened. But I think in this system, it's not letting him live up to the potential or player we were hoping to get, he's been solid but I think there's more to his game than we are able to see in a trash system.

I don't think it's a you have to hate Marino if you like Petry sort of situation. It's fine to like both in their current situations. If anything, I think Petry just got more screwed than Marino because now Petry has to make sense out of a system that doesn't really help the D.

 

[Gurglesons]

I like Petry and I am on the record as not liking the move early in the off season when it happened. But I think in this system, it's not letting him live up to the potential or player we were hoping to get, he's been solid but I think there's more to his game than we are able to see in a trash system.

I don't think it's a you have to hate Marino if you like Petry sort of situation. It's fine to like both in their current situations. If anything, I think Petry just got more screwed than Marino because now Petry has to make sense out of a system that doesn't really help the D.

Meh. I think Petry has been great here through his games here.

 

[Zbynek]

I feel like Petry will be a solid piece of a Cup run.

It will be a great opportunity for him to stick it to his former middling Canadian teams who don't do jack shit in the playoffs.

Let's Go Pens.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I feel like Petry will be a solid piece of a Cup run.

It will be a great opportunity for him to stick it to his former middling Canadian teams who don't do jack shit in the playoffs.

Let's Go Pens.

Under Mike Sullivan?

 

[HandshakeLine]

It’s funny how all the guys who hate advanced stats on the board are suddenly talking up Marino because of them.

Not me, stats are still for unf***able nerds.

Rutherford reportedly was hinting or threatening to trade Malkin at one point a couple years after the cups.

I was going to say, it was apparently so bad that Sid stepped in, according to the Pittsburgh media.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Not me, stats are still for unf***able nerds.


I was going to say, it was apparently so bad that Sid stepped in, according to the Pittsburgh media.

Rutherford was also so sure of his tactic of spreading rumors that teams were interested in Jack Johnson that he eventually had to get him bought out to finally rid himself of JJ, Sullivan's boy. Also the genius that traded Hagelin with retained salary and then didn't know he couldn't trade for him in the same season. It's funny seeing him destroy the Canucks and alienate Boudreau in the process all the while potentially moving the player that most Canucks fans consider the heart and soul of that team - Bo Horvat.

And yeah, it was so bad that when Friedman even mentioned it, JR had to suddenly act like he cared and shut it down when it was his fault to begin with that anyone was talking about it.

 

[Zbynek]

Under Mike Sullivan?

Never said Mike Sullivan would be part of that Cup run

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Never said Mike Sullivan would be part of that Cup run

 

[Turin]

Nah. Sometimes you just gotta cut bait.

And that was not an obvious thing to do, especially in order to bring in Petry or Burns as a replacement.

 

[SEALBound]

Rutherford was also so sure of his tactic of spreading rumors that teams were interested in Jack Johnson that he eventually had to get him bought out to finally rid himself of JJ, Sullivan's boy. Also the genius that traded Hagelin with retained salary and then didn't know he couldn't trade for him in the same season. It's funny seeing him destroy the Canucks and alienate Boudreau in the process all the while potentially moving the player that most Canucks fans consider the heart and soul of that team - Bo Horvat.

And yeah, it was so bad that when Friedman even mentioned it, JR had to suddenly act like he cared and shut it down when it was his fault to begin with that anyone was talking about it.

JR isn't the GM in Vancouver, Patrik Allvin is. JR is like Burke is here. Sure he's involved with the day-to-day but the roster falls on Allvin. I'm not sure JR even did anything with Vancouver in terms of trades and signings?

Different GMs have different ways of jabbing coaches. Obviously, something isn't right in Vancouver.

I think you also underestimate how much chatter there is out there among GMs for a lot of players. I don't think it's a very big deal if you have a GM that calls up asking about guys. Vancouver has likely had a lot of discussions about a lot of guys but this board tends to hone in on singular instances because it was "reported" and act as if this is a big happening.

I would suggest that with the performance of Vancouver, Horvat's contract, and looking ahead to the future, a GM would be negligent in their duties as a GM if they weren't talking to other teams about him. That doesn't always mean the team hates him and wants him gone.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Addison turning into a nice PP specialist for Minny. Zucker going beast mode this season helps take some of the sting but with most JR deals I think he gave too much.

Starting to get concerned with paying Rust 5 million a year for this kind of production. Dude straight up took that contract and ran.

I don’t think Addison fills any short term or long term need of this team, so I’m indifferent on the Penguins trading him.

I don’t think the Penguins have traded a prospect that they’ve regretted trading in a long time.

 

[SEALBound]

And that was not an obvious thing to do, especially in order to bring in Petry or Burns as a replacement.

Carolina got Burns for basically nothing and got salary retained to drop him to a reasonable hit.

It's an interesting thought experiment to think about what the team would be like if we had done the Petry deal AND the Burns deal and cut bait from Letang.

Pettersson-Petry
POJ-Burns
Dumo-Rutta

That's a rough and tough offense on that right side.

At the end of the day, I think I'd still rather have Letang.