Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[Andy99]

Yeah, I don't think Dumo needs immediately jettisoned, but I do not think he's going to be a top pairing defensemen by the TDL, let alone the postseason.

He doesn’t need to be immediately jettisoned but he needs to be off the top pairing…
It's been evident for a number of years he is in decline, and between the ankle injury several years ago and the MCL injury, he's really not skating well or playing well. His pivots from forwards to backwards are often very stiff...like, Francois Leroux level bad skating pivots. He's been looking lost out there, and I think we see more and more players start blowing by him. He's been trying to force guys wide, but if they can just chip and beat him in a foot race (not hard at this stage)...lookout!

It's one thing when fans see it. It's another thing where every single media person covering the team sees it and says it….everyone can keep hoping he rebounds, but it isn't happening….

 

[Gurglesons]

This makes sense except that Hagel sucks

I don’t think he sucks. He reminds me of Hagelin tbh.

 

[Peat]

I'm not opposed to the multiple player approach I guess. Will even be easier to acquire them. But I'm pretty confident if you put Kane on PP1 you'll score an extra goal or two, and the same goes with L1. We lose these series by fine margins and he is a proven playoff performer.
Besides, his playstyle seems like the best fit ever with Sid and Jake.

Maybe I've got the wrong impression of the guy, but I feel like Sid would be in the coach's ear saying he wants to play with a guy who picks up more defensive slack, goes to the blue paint more, and battles more. Sid likes playing with grinders. Skilled grinders, but grinders. Perimeter players not invited. I'm kinda dubious about how much he'd like playing with Kane and, given how often Sid sees top opposition and how bad Kane's defensive impacts have been recently, whether the boost in scoring would outweigh the boost in goals let in.

I draw the line at like 5 mil for a 2nd line winger on PP2. He needs to be a very strong 5v5 producer like Garland or something.
The extra 4 mil gives more freedom to maintain balance with the guys who need to be re-signed/replaced in other parts of the lineup, so there's enough leftover to give out Zucker money again for that role.
This discussion would be more fruitful if we laid out expected costs on all the pending guys and what decisions they may make. Need to put things in perspective for what Hextall will have to work with.

Fair enough, but that only reinforces my point that we already had the money to get another top six guy without getting 4m in the pot imo. You hand out Zucker money to the Zucker replacement (and even get some change), then all other elements of the team have the same amount of money they had to work with before with the JJ refund + projected 1m cap rise going to Jarry.

It shouldn't take another 3m on top of that 1m to hand around to the bottom six and blue line to make the GM feel comfortable with giving Zucker's money to Zucker's replacement.

Or someone we didn't see coming at all, like Marchment. There's a lotta season left.

True, just

a) You can see who's getting chances from ToI, so far those are the guys
b) An extra guy or two doesn't change that this is a weak weak pool to be fishing in, and that we're probably better off hoping for less teams going fishing and more guys having to stock it through not qualifying RFAs and cap casualties than we are hoping for more money

 

[chethejet]

Pens don't need a stud with Letang but a solid physical LD who brings a bit of grit to the mix. Me I like to get someone like Dillon if the Jets like McGinn or Teddy B.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Pens don't need a stud with Letang but a solid physical LD who brings a bit of grit to the mix. Me I like to get someone like Dillon if the Jets like McGinn or Teddy B.

That's not a bad idea, tbh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I get people being a bit wary re: Petts. That's a decent chunk of money for a guy that has looked awfully average for stretches and that the coach doesn't seem to trust. But I dunno... I thought he looked great in the playoffs last year and has started this year really strong. Perhaps having Petry as his partner will open up his game, as well? His no-hesitation pass right in Malkin's wheelhouse (something I wish more guys on this team could do with regularity) the other day was eyebrow-raising IMO.

Pettersson is not a problem as long as you have Petry playing with him IMO. He's playing well himself, but having a partner that both complements him really well and is more than good enough to carry him is making him much less of an issue than he was before.

I think someone like Soucy would fit better with Petry, based on what the team is looking for, but Pettersson-Petry is doing pretty much exactly what you want it to be doing right now. It's a night and day difference with Petry on that pair compared to Marino.

That's not a bad idea, tbh.

I'd let Dumoulin walk and try to throw a lot of money at Gavrikov this off-season.

 

[Darren McCord]

I don’t think he sucks. He reminds me of Hagelin tbh.

People would burn the place down if we trade two first for a hagelin

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Re: Dumo... I don't know that he's been QUITE as bad as a lot of the chatter has made it seem. But I also absolutely would not extend him for anything beyond stupid bargain prices so that he could round out D3. And that seems unrealistic. In that scenario I also have concerns about the staff not being able to see what is very plainly in front of them and continue to play him too far up the lineup out of respect.

 

[HandshakeLine]

My concern with Dumo is that I just don't really see him getting better as the years go on.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

My concern with Dumo is that I just don't really see him getting better as the years go on.

Oh certainly not. Even if his injuries fully heal he's just not the kind of player that maintains a high level later into his career. Think Rob Scuderi, here. Though probably not that severe lol

 

[vodeni]

Re: Dumo... I don't know that he's been QUITE as bad as a lot of the chatter has made it seem. But I also absolutely would not extend him for anything beyond stupid bargain prices so that he could round out D3. And that seems unrealistic. In that scenario I also have concerns about the staff not being able to see what is very plainly in front of them and continue to play him too far up the lineup out of respect.

of course he has not been terrible...14:1 in HDCF in first 3 games even with Letang being terrible in that last game...Dumo is fine, Petts is fine, Rutta is fine, our defense is much improved, if Petry keeps up with a good form, we will be just fine

 

[Peat]

Pettersson was good for most of last year with Marino. He seems to fit pretty well with most guys. The problem with Pettersson is he's not proven that he's good enough defensively to deal with a workload equal to his cap hit, which the coaching staff have previously mostly hidden him from. He's been given more to insulate POJ this year, but he's still not really getting it. It's still falling heavily on Dumoulin.

The difference between Pettersson using his offensive gifts with confidence and not is nice, but that's been happening on and off for a while. I guess permanently on would be nice.

Right now I still hope we can jettison Pettersson's cap hit. Problem is you kinda have to keep Dumo then, as completely turning over the top 4 LD from the outside right now is going to be rough.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

of course he has not been terrible...14:1 in HDCF in first 3 games even with Letang being terrible in that last game...Dumo is fine, Petts is fine, Rutta is fine, our defense is much improved, if Petry keeps up with a good form, we will be just fine

I DO think spells of Bad Letang™ these first few games have made Dumo look worse than than he's actually been. I'm mostly just saying this should be his last year. I am very confident that Dumo will not age out well and again I have little confidence that this team won't be tempted to put way too much on his plate should he be extended. It's all well and good to say "he'd be great at like 3M to play on D3" but WILL he, actually?

 

[Gurglesons]

People would burn the place down if we trade two first for a hagelin

If it is for a Hagelin at 1 mill dollars for multiple years I disagree.

 

[vodeni]

I DO think spells of Bad Letang™ these first few games have made Dumo look worse than than he's actually been. I'm mostly just saying this should be his last year. I am very confident that Dumo will not age out well and again I have little confidence that this team won't be tempted to put way too much on his plate should he be extended. It's all well and good to say "he'd be great at like 3M to play on D3" but WILL he, actually?

all I care is this year, and I think he will be fine not a liability in this LSC pursuit, after that not sure...

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

all I care is this year, and I think he will be fine not a liability in this LSC pursuit, after that not sure...

I hope so. I'm at least willing to see.

He DOES seem to be moving a bit creaky out there, though. I'll say that.

 

[chethejet]

Dumo just can't move and his skating as to turning is borderline Hall Gill. He can't move well and he looked bad on two passes he just couldn't get to that were the two goals that beat the Pens. He is a liability and something has to be done.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Again, keep in mind that Dumo in his prime wasn't a 1-2 guy. He's always been a 3/4 blueliner, he just clicked with Letang who sort of carried him and vice versa.

So I don't think we need to go hog wild and search for a top flight guy (though it'd be nice). We just need another top 4 LD.

 

[dogthateats]

Malkin was snubbed from ESPN’s predicting the top 100 players of 2022-23 list haha.

 

[SEALBound]

Dumo just can't move and his skating as to turning is borderline Hall Gill. He can't move well and he looked bad on two passes he just couldn't get to that were the two goals that beat the Pens. He is a liability and something has to be done.

We'll see how the season progresses. I agree that he's a weak point that may need addressing, I'm just not convinced it needs to happen right now.

Dumo is a very difficult guy to replace at the moment. A UFA at $4.1mil, I don't think you're going to magically get a #2 in a straight swap. What we need is for a guy like Pettersson, Rutta, POJ, Smith, etc to step up and play at a level that makes Dumo expendable. Then you can maybe make due with a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy at a slightly less cost. Then, ideally, you sell Dumo off to a team looking to bolster their defense.

For example:
Dumo to Montreal (say they are in the playoff race) for a 2nd
2nd + asset to Seattle for Soucy

Pettersson-Letang
Soucy-Petry
Smith-Rutta
POJ-Rudwedel

I think that is the only logical path with effectively replacing Dumoulin. And that path involves others besides Dumo, performing well. So it's a tough path.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Malkin was snubbed from ESPN’s predicting the top 100 players of 2022-23 list haha.

Clearly ESPN hates underprivileged children.

Or maybe they assume this will fuel him and they LOVE underprivileged children?

 

[Andy99]

Dumo just can't move and his skating as to turning is borderline Hall Gill. He can't move well and he looked bad on two passes he just couldn't get to that were the two goals that beat the Pens. He is a liability and something has to be done.

Yep, and I forgot to mention him on #1 PK unit…should be off that as well lol

 

[dogthateats]

Clearly ESPN hates underprivileged children.

Or maybe they assume this will fuel him and they LOVE underprivileged children?

It is a weird list haha. Guentzel at 57 but Eichel at 25? Idk it’s just ESPN so I guess I don’t care

 

[Andy99]

Malkin was snubbed from ESPN’s predicting the top 100 players of 2022-23 list haha.

I mean there’s a lot of mediocre names that made it above him lol

 

[pistolpete11]

Malkin was snubbed from ESPN’s predicting the top 100 players of 2022-23 list haha.

He didn't even make the 15 player long honorable mention list.