Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[Peat]

There'll be emerging top 6 talents that go UFA just like every year. We'll find someone if Zucker is being let go.
That being said, I'd like Bertuzzi the most off that list, at least in terms of realistic acquisitions.
I wouldn't have given 6.5 this summer to a winger unless he's a difference maker on PP1, which Kane or Miller would have been.

A few maybe. Zacha if he's playing wing rather than C. Otherwise, Trevor Lewis and Andrei Kuzmenko look like the only two candidates at this point. Not enough to shake my belief that it's a weak pool and the more people fishing in it, the worse it goes for our chances of achieving good things.

I agree that the 4M doesn't do us favours relative to other teams, but I disagree in that I think it will make us more likely to go big game hunting for that winger. Hextall viewed things more like me this summer, where he preferred balance. He'll have more leeway now to change that approach a little.

But handing out 6.5m - more than most are worth as you point out - or so to a top 6 winger would be balanced. That's just Zucker's money plus the cap increase, rebalancing the rest of the team (plus JJ's lower buyout hit) to cope with Jarry's increased cap hit. Even just handing out Zucker's money again probably gets a top 6 wing. That extra 4m is only needed if he planned to spend less on the top 6 than he currently does, which isn't balance, it's skewing away from spending enough.

Honestly if the team really looks strong at the deadline then I'd just say to hell with it and pay what it takes for Kane. The window is almost gone, and I don't see anyone else giving us a better chance this season.
If it fails then it fails, but at least they'll have given themselves a shot. It will take something special to help us beat contenders now. May have to face New York again or Carolina in R1.

It seems to me the success rate of integrating guys like Coleman and Goodrow, Hainsey and Schultz, Lehkonen and Cogliano, Vermette and Kempney, is a lot higher than that of integrating your big name top 6 forwards. Lower expectations, easier roles, less noses out of joint.

As such, I'd far rather go that route if we're looking to go all in than put it all on one guy.

 

[dogthateats]

Not sure I really get the hate on Petersson.

Seems to be doing a great job at 5v5 and has two absolute laser passes for two goals with Malkin and Rust.

The posters who don’t like him have stated that they don’t like him bc of physical characteristics like how he looks or how much he weighs. If he was more handsome in their eyes they would perceive him as a better player. This happens in the animal kingdom as well. If someone stepped on and killed a pile of ants and killed 40 of them they would barely bat a lash, but if they stepped on and killed 40 cute baby otters they would feel bad about it. This is bc they think otters are cute and ants are ugly.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

It seems to me the success rate of integrating guys like Coleman and Goodrow, Hainsey and Schultz, Lehkonen and Cogliano, Vermette and Kempney, is a lot higher than that of integrating your big name top 6 forwards. Lower expectations, easier roles, less noses out of joint.

As such, I'd far rather go that route if we're looking to go all in than put it all on one guy.

I'm not opposed to the multiple player approach I guess. Will even be easier to acquire them. But I'm pretty confident if you put Kane on PP1 you'll score an extra goal or two, and the same goes with L1. We lose these series by fine margins and he is a proven playoff performer.
Besides, his playstyle seems like the best fit ever with Sid and Jake.

But handing out 6.5m - more than most are worth as you point out - or so to a top 6 winger would be balanced. That's just Zucker's money plus the cap increase, rebalancing the rest of the team (plus JJ's lower buyout hit) to cope with Jarry's increased cap hit. Even just handing out Zucker's money again probably gets a top 6 wing. That extra 4m is only needed if he planned to spend less on the top 6 than he currently does, which isn't balance, it's skewing away from spending enough.

I draw the line at like 5 mil for a 2nd line winger on PP2. He needs to be a very strong 5v5 producer like Garland or something.
The extra 4 mil gives more freedom to maintain balance with the guys who need to be re-signed/replaced in other parts of the lineup, so there's enough leftover to give out Zucker money again for that role.
This discussion would be more fruitful if we laid out expected costs on all the pending guys and what decisions they may make. Need to put things in perspective for what Hextall will have to work with.

A few maybe. Zacha if he's playing wing rather than C. Otherwise, Trevor Lewis and Andrei Kuzmenko look like the only two candidates at this point. Not enough to shake my belief that it's a weak pool and the more people fishing in it, the worse it goes for our chances of achieving good things.

Or someone we didn't see coming at all, like Marchment. There's a lotta season left.

 

[Gurglesons]

The key for a bottom six forward is low term and hunger. That’s why Tanev, McCann, presumably Rodrigues prior to firing his agent made no sense to retain for us.

We hate the Carter deal but the term is crucial. We’ve seen how it can bite us with McGinn.

If we are ponying up big assets I’d much prefer a Hagel to a Kane tbh. When you have a three year window with players like Malkin, Sid, Rust and Jake you don’t need a third top dog.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Honestly would be shocked to see Hextall double down on so many players he didn’t acquire / aren’t RFAs.

I think Jarry is obvious. All the others outside of the RFAs are fair game.

He doesn't seem like the kind of guy to really shift around a bunch of pieces and chase bigger names either though. We'll see what happens, I guess. I just kinda default to things staying largely as is.

Of Peat's list of potential FAs, I think Pasta, Bertuzzi and Bunting are locks to stick around where they're at. I'm not too interested in chasing any of the others, especially the prospect of getting into bidding wars against other teams. Patrick Kane can eat shit ad infinitum. Patches would've been great to get five years and a bunch of injuries ago. Drouin might benefit from a change of scenery but I gotta wonder if his heart/mind are still in this whole hockey thing anymore.

I don't think Zucker's gonna keep up his level of play, but if he stays healthy he's a solid middle-6 guy who is familiar with the team/system, and pretty beloved by the coach and the lockerroom. Heinen seems like he stuck around as a prove it deal with the idea he'll be re-signed unless he completely kills it and prices himself out of town. Jarry's pretty much a lock because there aren't any other realistic options out there that are gonna be cheaper and/or better.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

The key for a bottom six forward is low term and hunger. That’s why Tanev, McCann, presumably Rodrigues prior to firing his agent made no sense to retain for us.

We hate the Carter deal but the term is crucial. We’ve seen how it can bite us with McGinn.

If we are ponying up big assets I’d much prefer a Hagel to a Kane tbh. When you have a three year window with players like Malkin, Sid, Rust and Jake you don’t need a third top dog.

This makes sense except that Hagel sucks

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Well people talk about the top 6 here a lot and we will need to replace Zucker if he's gone, so I'm showing how it's possible now. If Heinen has another good year then he'll get a big pay bump and we may let him go as well. Kap will be here still, but who knows if he'll be top 6 worthy at that point.
Someone has to play the position.

I don't see Petts as being this big problem like many here. He's done quite well in these first 3 games and was arguably our best D in the playoffs.
For me he plays close to like 3 - 3.5 mil a lot of the time. That's just what middle pair D cost.
I'm not overly attached to him but I'm not convinced his replacement will move mountains here either. It's possible I guess.

Forgot about Zucker being UFA. In that case, yeah sure a free agent would be interesting. I know Tarasenko is a RW but I would love to see him line up beside Malkin or I am sure the blokes here that love to turn a blind eye types, would probably aim for Patrick Kane.

I am sure whomever they sign will end up with Crosby anyway so we’ll be seeing Rakell, Malkin, Rust as the 2nd line.

I don’t see Zucker coming back unless this season goes well. If he tops 50pts and is healthy for at least 70 games, he could still leverage that to go to a city he wants to play in for his final years with a full NTC and stay where he is at his age and family situation.

Dumoulin this team needs to move on from.

Also, while Pettersson had ”2 laser passes to Malkin and Rust”…his play in his own end is lacklustre at best. His situational awareness at times is just bizarre and he’s lucky he has Petry as his partner. I would rather they hedged their bets on POJ. Apparently there’s a rising need for Defensemen with Muzzin hurt and whatever the situation the Canucks are in is being labeled as (We know their D is awful, they will argue it‘s not that bad.)

I would be shocked if Blueger stays, I would be disappointed in him staying actually. He has more to offer and he owes it to himself to go sign somewhere that won‘t bury him with ridiculously bizarre usage as a 4c.

The key for a bottom six forward is low term and hunger. That’s why Tanev, McCann, presumably Rodrigues prior to firing his agent made no sense to retain for us.

We hate the Carter deal but the term is crucial. We’ve seen how it can bite us with McGinn.

If we are ponying up big assets I’d much prefer a Hagel to a Kane tbh. When you have a three year window with players like Malkin, Sid, Rust and Jake you don’t need a third top dog.

You’re better off going on Hockey-Reference and finding any 4th line players that are used to 70-80% Defensive zone starts and hope the team signs one of them so at least you are ok with no hopes tied to that player and they will be used to depressing usage with zero hope of anything but that kind of usage.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Please please please do not re-sign Dumo.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Forgot about Zucker being UFA. In that case, yeah sure a free agent would be interesting. I know Tarasenko is a RW but I would love to see him line up beside Malkin or I am sure the blokes here that love to turn a blind eye types, would probably aim for Patrick Kane.

Kane feels like a lock to work here because of his playstyle and who he'd be with, and Tarasenko is more of a question mark for me.
If we're talking about retaining them then Tarasenko's a huge injury risk. I don't think Kane would even demand that much AAV, because of his age and eagerness to win again after the struggles in Chicago.
Since our window is tiny, I'd make the percentage choice.

I am sure whomever they sign will end up with Crosby anyway so we’ll be seeing Rakell, Malkin, Rust as the 2nd line.

I'm not sure of that at all. Sullivan likes GCRak. He proved that this year and last. Rakell will have to show he's not a fit there anymore, which I haven't seen yet.

Also, while Pettersson had ”2 laser passes to Malkin and Rust”…his play in his own end is lacklustre at best. His situational awareness at times is just bizarre and he’s lucky he has Petry as his partner. I would rather they hedged their bets on POJ.

Hedge their bets on POJ playing middle pair you mean? I'm very much against that with how little time we have left. His defensive awareness is worse than Petts'. He does some things better, like skating, first pass and physicality. However I'm apprehensive with his ability to defend well against tougher competition than his current sheltered role.

I would be shocked if Blueger stays, I would be disappointed in him staying actually. He has more to offer and he owes it to himself to go sign somewhere that won‘t bury him with ridiculously bizarre usage as a 4c.

Yeah I'm swaying like 60-40 towards Blue leaving. Some guys have surprised me in wanting to stay before, like Heinen this year. He was offered more elsewhere. But in Blue's case I'm sure he'd love to get a more offensive role and cash in on a deal once in his career.

 

[HandshakeLine]

TB is fine as far as 4Cs go, I just don't think our current focus for the 4th line is really doing much. Bluger's been a non-factor in the postseason for years too, which isn't really helping his case.

If we were done with the Sid and Geno era I wouldn't hesitate to re-sign him, but we realistically have only two more shots at doing something with the postseason so everyone who hasn't performed in the playoffs should be on notice, especially role players TB, Carter, and McGinn.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

AT&T SportsNet™ PIT
@ATTSportsNetPIT
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3m
Former Penguin Eric Tangradi is now the head coach of the boys prep team at Shady Side Academy. His story comes your way on the season debut of IPH on Oct 29 at 8:30!! -DP WOW !!!!

Go Sewickley!

 

[Pens x]

Didn’t they name Tangradi the head coach back in June?

TB is fine as far as 4Cs go, I just don't think our current focus for the 4th line is really doing much. Bluger's been a non-factor in the postseason for years too, which isn't really helping his case.

If we were done with the Sid and Geno era I wouldn't hesitate to re-sign him, but we realistically have only two more shots at doing something with the postseason so everyone who hasn't performed in the playoffs should be on notice, especially role players TB, Carter, and McGinn.

If we are holding players accountable for poor playoff play, why isn’t Jarry’s name mentioned first?

The guys you mentioned aren’t losing the team playoff games; they just add nothing. I’m all for dumping Blueger and/or McGinn, but it won’t matter if Jarry continues to play like crap.

 

[LOGiK]

TB is fine as far as 4Cs go, I just don't think our current focus for the 4th line is really doing much. Bluger's been a non-factor in the postseason for years too, which isn't really helping his case.

If we were done with the Sid and Geno era I wouldn't hesitate to re-sign him, but we realistically have only two more shots at doing something with the postseason so everyone who hasn't performed in the playoffs should be on notice, especially role players TB, Carter, and McGinn.

Tampa is an example of being a perfectly good team, capable enough, but is just exhausted / stale.
Happened to Penguins too.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Jarry played one game injured last year and the team blew a 3-1 lead under Domingue mostly.

But I think goalies are super overrated here and people tend to ignore other parts of the lineup faltering because goalies make a shiny distraction from having to address the less easily-fixable parts of the roster.

Edit brain fart

 

[LOGiK]

Jarry played one game injured last year and the team blew a 3-1 lead under Domingue mostly.

But I think goalies are super overrated here and people tend to ignore other parts of the lineup faltering because goalies make a shiny distraction from having to address the less easily-fixable parts of the roster.

Edit brain fart

Goalies rating goes by nervousness / composure / do not choke as in make very stupid irrational decisions in key moments that lose you the game and possibly series.
So in that regard. Goalies are of utmost importance.

Honestly.... if I were hiring a goalie it'd be more psyche checks than physical.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Goalies rating goes by nervousness / composure / do not choke as in make very stupid irrational decisions in key moments that lose you the game and possibly series.
So in that regard. Goalies are of utmost importance.

Honestly.... if I were hiring a goalie it'd be more psyche checks than physical.

Nah, goalies are trash. Some are just less frequently trash than others. There’s still 5 other guys on the ice.

 

[LOGiK]

So I'm looking at the cap. Around the AHL / NHL... I never really understood cap intricacies, but.... if an ahl player only plays in the ahl, do they only get their tiny number 'minor's salary'?
What about signing bonuses etc (excluding playing in the NHL. what is their numbers).

Nah, goalies are trash. Some are just less frequently trash than others. There’s still 5 other guys on the ice.

I get it =P

 

[Allie Kitsune]

The posters who don’t like him have stated that they don’t like him bc of physical characteristics like how he looks or how much he weighs. If he was more handsome in their eyes they would perceive him as a better player. This happens in the animal kingdom as well. If someone stepped on and killed a pile of ants and killed 40 of them they would barely bat a lash, but if they stepped on and killed 40 cute baby otters they would feel bad about it. This is bc they think otters are cute and ants are ugly.

So, you're saying that instead of "Dragon", we should be calling him "Ant"?

 

[chethejet]

It the cap is 86.5 next year I think Petts can be OK as a LD with only two years left. the contract is still a consideration but not a killer. He is not a value but he is OK. I move him if I can with 2 years left but Dumo has to be gone and only Smith and POJ if he is here are LD in the system. I have posted Pens have to find a way to move Dumo or Petts for a physical LD. Hextall has to find a LD in a trade here. Maybe the Yotes can find a deal with a #1, Poulin, for starters for the LD.

 

[Peat]

So I'm looking at the cap. Around the AHL / NHL... I never really understood cap intricacies, but.... if an ahl player only plays in the ahl, do they only get their tiny number 'minor's salary'?
What about signing bonuses etc (excluding playing in the NHL. what is their numbers).

Correct. Although once a player is off his ELC, minors salary usually goes up some.

Signing bonus is paid at the beginning of the year regardless of league, so that's not downgraded for being in the AHL.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Correct. Although once a player is off his ELC, minors salary usually goes up some.

Signing bonus is paid at the beginning of the year regardless of league, so that's not downgraded for being in the AHL.

Plus there are caveats like "minimum guaranteed salary". Players like Fedun have them.

 

[SEALBound]

Also here's the list of expiring UFA top 6 wings

Kane
Tarasenko
Patches
Pasta
Zucker
Nyquist
Drouin
Dadonov
Bertuzzi
Tatar
Killorn
Brown
Bunting

Kane, sure but I doubt he comes here. Tarasanko you can sign me up for but I think a lot of teams will throw money at him. Patches, nah. Pasta, won't happen. Nyquist, Drouin, Dadonov, Tatar, Killorn, Brown - you may as well keep Zucker. Bertuzzi, sure but it will likely cost too much. Bunting, doubt him being available. These are also the kind of guys that get resigned before making it to FA. .

The key for a bottom six forward is low term and hunger. That’s why Tanev, McCann, presumably Rodrigues prior to firing his agent made no sense to retain for us.

We hate the Carter deal but the term is crucial. We’ve seen how it can bite us with McGinn.

If we are ponying up big assets I’d much prefer a Hagel to a Kane tbh. When you have a three year window with players like Malkin, Sid, Rust and Jake you don’t need a third top dog.

As a rental, Kane 100%. As a longer-term roster player, you're probably right. That said: Jake-Sid-Kane makes me weak in the knees.

Please please please do not re-sign Dumo.

Unless the plan is to sign him cheap for 2-3yrs and transition him to the 3rd pairing. Him as a top pairing dman, is a current "weakness" for us. Just not a glaring weakness.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah, I don't think Dumo needs immediately jettisoned, but I do not think he's going to be a top pairing defensemen by the TDL, let alone the postseason.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I was actually talking to a buddy over the weekend about him. We were doing a thought experiment on if they balked at Tavaras and kept Kadri. With the extra money, they could have kept a bunch of good depth guys, particularly Hyman. Then there's Johnsson, Kapanen, Brown - all guys that could give you the depth needed to win a round.

Plus with JT at 11M they had to give Matthews and Marner around that too.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I get people being a bit wary re: Petts. That's a decent chunk of money for a guy that has looked awfully average for stretches and that the coach doesn't seem to trust. But I dunno... I thought he looked great in the playoffs last year and has started this year really strong. Perhaps having Petry as his partner will open up his game, as well? His no-hesitation pass right in Malkin's wheelhouse (something I wish more guys on this team could do with regularity) the other day was eyebrow-raising IMO.