Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, I feel like they're trying to pump his value and move him. Dude got, what 12 minutes TOI last night and still had a point? Sounds like they're going to insulate him as much as possible get those numbers up and then hopefully someone bites.

I’m conflicted for whether it’s this or “wait for an injury to a defenseman and keep all 9 D”.

If someone like Dumoulin gets hurt, both Smith and Friedman would be recalled. I completely believe that. I don’t think they really want either of those guys in WBS. If the Penguins can pull off essentially carrying 9 D all year due to injuries, that would be pretty awesome.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I guess, but when I see a blueliner getting that sheltered, I almost always suspect they're being shopped (like Petts last year). I don't know if anyone will take POJ, but that's not a good sign. We'll see though Emp. You might well be right.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I was actually talking to a buddy over the weekend about him. We were doing a thought experiment on if they balked at Tavaras and kept Kadri. With the extra money, they could have kept a bunch of good depth guys, particularly Hyman. Then there's Johnsson, Kapanen, Brown - all guys that could give you the depth needed to win a round.

Tavares isn't BAD. He's just not nearly good enough to justify all that money. And now he's getting older and has taken some decent injuries.

I think it's weird that the Leafs fanbase seems to kinda hate Marner and especially Nylander. When to my eyes they seem pretty good most nights compared to some of their other supposed core pieces.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Harold Ballard should have finished the job.

 

[SEALBound]

Tavares isn't BAD. He's just not nearly good enough to justify all that money. And now he's getting older and has taken some decent injuries.

I think it's weird that the Leafs fanbase seems to kinda hate Marner and especially Nylander. When to my eyes they seem pretty good most nights compared to some of their other supposed core pieces.

That's what we discussed - what Tavaras provides for the money vs what the other cap casualties could have provided.

I would say Kadri+Hyman > Tavaras. That said, who know who they would have kept.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Harold Ballard should have finished the job.

The karmic retribution exacted for employing Darcy Tucker and Tie Domi for all those years and howling in delight every time they brained some poor bastard is steep.

That's what we discussed - what Tavaras provides for the money vs what the other cap casualties could have provided.

I would say Kadri+Hyman > Tavaras. That said, who know who they would have kept.

Indeed.

I don't think much of Keefe, either FWIW. Dude's name is "Sheldon" -- that's already bad news.

 

[Peat]

For all Hextall is clearly not the world's biggest POJ fan, I suspect he's relatively happy for events to make his decision here for him for now. Someone wants to trade for him? Cool. Price isn't there? Carry on. I feel like it's going to take 10-15 games of no LTIR for him to get antsy.

I also think POJ's games have generally gotten better, and his skating gave him two big standout plus moments vs Montreal.

 

[Gumbercules]

No surprise, but Dreger mentioned that POJ's name is out there for trade potentially on sportscentre. Mentioned Montreal and Toronto as teams looking for D, but stopped short of connecting POJ to either of them. I was only paying half-attention, so i may have misheard some of the details though.

 

[HandshakeLine]

No surprise, but Dreger mentioned that POJ's name is out there for trade potentially on sportscentre. Mentioned Montreal and Toronto as teams looking for D, but stopped short of connecting POJ to either of them. I was only paying half-attention, so i may have misheard some of the details though.

What would we want from either of them though?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I imagine the return is ideally a younger guy of similar caliber who can safely pass through waivers. I think Hextall would take like a 4th or 5th though, just to have something for him.

I think the issue is just that the team doesn't want to give the guy the time/leash to grow and develop at the NHL level, and he's got nothing else to learn in the AHL. I'm not convinced POJ is anything more than a younger Ruhwedel, but maybe another situation gets more out of him.

 

[Peat]

What would we want from either of them though?

Unless Hextall is really grandiose in his demands, probably a 4th and an AHLer.

That's the customary price for someone in his position, and we don't have the roster space for an NHLer. Maybe he scores someone like Alex Nylander, an AHLer with some NHL potential and one more year of waiver exemption, and no pick instead.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

What would we want from either of them though?

ZAR probably.

 

[HandshakeLine]

ZAR probably.

You shut your mouth.

 

[Pens x]

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Former Penguin Eric Tangradi is now the head coach of the boys prep team at Shady Side Academy. His story comes your way on the season debut of IPH on Oct 29 at 8:30!! -DP WOW !!!!

I wonder if he will take 10 years to learn how to coach - the same amount of time it takes power forwards to hit their prime, according to many on this site when Tangradi was here.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Dreger comment was saying pretty much all Canadian teams needed defensemen, mentioned that Montreal and Toronto specifically want RD, and then mentioned POJ was available and might be a fit for one of those teams. That was about all he said.

 

[SEALBound]

For all Hextall is clearly not the world's biggest POJ fan, I suspect he's relatively happy for events to make his decision here for him for now. Someone wants to trade for him? Cool. Price isn't there? Carry on. I feel like it's going to take 10-15 games of no LTIR for him to get antsy.

I also think POJ's games have generally gotten better, and his skating gave him two big standout plus moments vs Montreal.

I think there's also an aspect of POJ not being "his guy". He brought in Smith and likely prefers him to POJ.

My bitch is going to be when Hextall gives him away for practically nothing. As you said, probably a 4th and no-name. I think POJ has slightly more value than that and it's going to bum me out to see us sell low again on someone. We never seem to get good value.

Best hope is a Pettersson for Sprong situation. POJ for a waiver exempt forward with similar upside.

From Montreal - Jesse Ylonen may be a decent swap. Maybe Rafael Harvey-Pinard but I'm not keen on his size.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You shut your mouth.

Awwwww c'mon! The money would work! Plus ya know... as all of our betters in the local media have harped on since he was traded... the PK just hasn't been the same, since. It's their chance to right a wrong! Just like Scuderi years back. And that turned out terrifically!

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think there's also an aspect of POJ not being "his guy". He brought in Smith and likely prefers him to POJ.

My bitch is going to be when Hextall gives him away for practically nothing. As you said, probably a 4th and no-name. I think POJ has slightly more value than that and it's going to bum me out to see us sell low again on someone. We never seem to get good value.

Best hope is a Pettersson for Sprong situation. POJ for a waiver exempt forward with similar upside.

From Montreal - Jesse Ylonen may be a decent swap. Maybe Rafael Harvey-Pinard but I'm not keen on his size.

He really doesn't have more value than that. Look at what waiver eligible young defensemen of his caliber go for, they're either waiver claims or they're traded for scraps.

Pouliot was traded for a 4th and Pedan. Oleksiak was traded for a 4th. Juolevi was traded for Lammikko and Juulsen (4th liner and AHL defenseman). Clague, Mete and Cholowski were waiver claims.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

ZAR probably.

He really doesn't have more value than that. Look at what waiver eligible young defensemen of his caliber go for, they're either waiver claims or they're traded for scraps.

Pouliot was traded for a 4th and Pedan. Oleksiak was traded for a 4th. Juolevi was traded for Lammikko and Juulsen (4th liner and AHL defenseman). Clague, Mete and Cholowski were waiver claims.

Yeah, I don't think anybody outside of WBS/Pittsburgh knows or gives a f*** about POJ. Nor should they, to be brutally honest.

 

[Peat]

He really doesn't have more value than that. Look at what waiver eligible young defensemen of his caliber go for, they're either waiver claims or they're traded for scraps.

Pouliot was traded for a 4th and Pedan. Oleksiak was traded for a 4th. Juolevi was traded for Lammikko and Juulsen (4th liner and AHL defenseman). Clague, Mete and Cholowski were waiver claims.

But get a good NHL season out of him and his value shoots up.

Question is whether he has it or not. Probably answered elsewhere.

 

[The Old Master]

What would we want from either of them though?

my best guess would be picks. they can be flipped easily to any team.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

That's pretty much how I feel about the POJ situation boiled down to basics; You're probably not getting the best out of him in this organization, and if you "lose" a POJ trade, what're you really losing? Not much, imo.

-edit- I don't really think much changes if they somehow miraculously dump Petts either. A POJ-Petry pairing would probably be a wreck, as would a Smith-Petry pairing. Maybe Rutta-Petry works if Rutta is fine on his off side, but it doesn't really help with either Smith or POJ having to play their off side and the pairing having issues defensively.

Just keep playing him for like a month, hope he gains some semblance of value as an asset in the meantime, and move him for whatever you can get. Bring Smith back up and run a Smith-Rutta pairing. /shrug Done.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Frankly POJ's value is still something of a mystery. I would say that he'd be more valuable to the team as-is than a 4th rounder or some AHL plug. But I really don't even know if that's true.

 

[Peat]

Frankly POJ's value is still something of a mystery. I would say that he'd be more valuable to the team as-is than a 4th rounder or some AHL plug. But I really don't even know if that's true.

In a vacuum, 100%.

But if they are right and Smith is a better player, Smith + garbo return > POJ.

 

[Pancakes]

I imagine the return is ideally a younger guy of similar caliber who can safely pass through waivers. I think Hextall would take like a 4th or 5th though, just to have something for him.

I think the issue is just that the team doesn't want to give the guy the time/leash to grow and develop at the NHL level, and he's got nothing else to learn in the AHL. I'm not convinced POJ is anything more than a younger Ruhwedel, but maybe another situation gets more out of him.

A 4th or 5th isn't nothing I suppose but if Hextall is selling that low on POJ he might as well just waive him and get Smith up.