Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[Josey Wales]

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Former Penguin Eric Tangradi is now the head coach of the boys prep team at Shady Side Academy. His story comes your way on the season debut of IPH on Oct 29 at 8:30!! -DP WOW !!!!

 

[HandshakeLine]

SSA about to get a real barking from the Big Dog. (tm)

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'd gladly trade his whole 10 goals for a different mix on the 4th line and more cap space. This team has no problem putting up points.

I feel like the other problem with McGinn is that people fetishize his versatility, (which they weirdly hated about Rodrigues) but honestly, if he's playing in the top 6 or even in the top 9, we're already kinda f***ed. He's just a luxury security blanket.

Well that's another thing is that the fourth line is still treated like this weird "passive defense" line where they get buried in the opposition's end via deployment and are expected to like... stick check and position the other team into submission. Yet McGinn's only special characteristic as far as I can tell is... well... having some offensive chops. So on top of everything else I'd say he's not in a great spot to show off what he might be capable of.

At this point I wouldn't move him up past Kap and Heinen, either. Maybe inevitable injuries will get him bumped up a line so he can actually use his tools a bit better. We'll see.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The weird narrative about Tanev and McGinn being monster hitters is also kinda weird to me. Like Tanev threw a lot of hits, but he wasn't really a heavy hitter (and then he blew up his own shoulder lmao). McGinn also supposedly records a fair amount of hits, but not really all that many (94 in 64 GP, last year, career high of 137 in 80) when you look at the numbers a bit more closely.

He's an lunchpail kinda player, but he's not really a hitter-- at least, for example, Archibald legitimately throws good hits.

I think as a physical presence, McGinn's pretty lack luster, tbh.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Is MGinn supposed to be a physical guy? That's uh... sure not been the case, here.

This team does have a knack for collecting guys that LOG hits in the box score. But in reality they are just kinda super balling off guys out there.

 

[Peat]

I think the big disconnect among the fanbase is that some believe the cream of your AHL crop can match or exceed the whole 10ish goal, 30ish point standard over a full year on the cheap. And some believe you have no choice but to pay for that.

I'd be shocked if McGinn doesn't pick back up that 30ish point, 10-15 goal standard while helping on the PK. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's actually worth it, IMO.

The cream of our AHL crop keeps getting chances to do it and they don't take them. The only guy that's made the leap since Blueger was Freddie Gaudreau, for which he promptly got 2 x 1.2m for what was more or less a 30 game sample. Maybe this is finally the year it all comes good but it's very clearly not a guarantee.

Not that I particularly want to pay McGinn 2.75m to be nailed to the 4th line either. Given he effectively got third line minutes last year, I doubt he gets the same numbers this year if he is. But since we don't need his cap space right now and he is clearly better than Drew O'Connor to date, I don't really see the problem. Maybe we'll be cursing not being able/willing to clear his cap space come the deadline or the summer, but burn that bridge when we get to it.


edit: maybe I've been tuning out the commentators and missing something, but I don't think anyone's said McGinn is a big hitter. Willing and useful in the corners and around the net, but not a big hitter.

Tanev, yeah, but then I'd back that. His revenge hit for the knee on knee that screwed up Malkin was the biggest I've seen from any Pen in about the last five seasons, and he routinely threw hits as big as any I've regularly seen in this league from anyone who's not Tom Wilson, Ristolainen, Trouba, and maybe a couple of others.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The cream of our AHL crop keeps getting chances to do it and they don't take them. The only guy that's made the leap since Blueger was Freddie Gaudreau, for which he promptly got 2 x 1.2m for what was more or less a 30 game sample. Maybe this is finally the year it all comes good but it's very clearly not a guarantee.

Not that I particularly want to pay McGinn 2.75m to be nailed to the 4th line either. Given he effectively got third line minutes last year, I doubt he gets the same numbers this year if he is. But since we don't need his cap space right now and he is clearly better than Drew O'Connor to date, I don't really see the problem. Maybe we'll be cursing not being able/willing to clear his cap space come the deadline or the summer, but burn that bridge when we get to it.

I think there is a lot of truth to that. But I also can't help but feel like there will ALWAYS be a McGinn, Archibald, Boyle etc. while this team is "contending." Which... hey... many people seem to think that's fine and dandy and the way to be. I personally feel like young cheap legs who don't know any better yet provide a lot more than some guy pushin' 30 on his like third team, best case. But I'm probably also not in the business of helping to run a hockey organization for good reason haha

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think we, collectively as a board, have given Brock McGinn more thought since his signing than the entirety of humanity since his birth.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Penguins are going to be in a super nice cap position with Malkin and Letang at $6 million and that increase in cap. Zucker likely gets a pay cut if he stays as well.

If you can get Zucker right now for a 3 year, $4 million AAV deal, I’d pull the trigger. At worst, he’s a great 3rd line piece making middle-6 winger money.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I just think there were, in retrospect, better options for $2.75 million for a gazillion years than Brock McGinn regardless of how disappointing things are in WB/S.

 

[Andy99]

I think there is a lot of truth to that. But I also can't help but feel like there will ALWAYS be a McGinn, Archibald, Boyle etc. while this team is "contending." Which... hey... many people seem to think that's fine and dandy and the way to be. I personally feel like young cheap legs who don't know any better yet provide a lot more than some guy pushin' 30 on his like third team, best case. But I'm probably also not in the business of helping to run a hockey organization for good reason haha

I mean look who MTL had playing last night on their backend…three out of the six D men had barely played any NHL games and they weren’t exactly first round picks, and one was a waiver claim…then there were washed up Wideman and Savard…Guhle is their best D man and he’s 20 lol…they had no problem beating us to pucks lol

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean look who MTL had playing last night on their backend…three out of the six D men had barely played any NHL games and they weren’t exactly first round picks, and one was a waiver claim…then there were washed up Wideman and Savard…Guhle is their best D man and he’s 20 lol…they had no problem beating us to pucks lol

I don't know if Montreal is going to keep up that hustle all season long. But I think the broader point of not being afraid to try younger players in a spot instead of overpaying UFAs is a relevant one.

 

[Peat]

I think there is a lot of truth to that. But I also can't help but feel like there will ALWAYS be a McGinn, Archibald, Boyle etc. while this team is "contending." Which... hey... many people seem to think that's fine and dandy and the way to be. I personally feel like young cheap legs who don't know any better yet provide a lot more than some guy pushin' 30 on his like third team, best case. But I'm probably also not in the business of helping to run a hockey organization for good reason haha

There just always will be, contending or not. Hockey wisdom is you don't want to push your guys with room to develop into those roles as a regular thing, so once you've excluded the best young players from competing for those spots, you're going to get a ton of vets there. It's about hoping you get vets mixed in with kids, rather than pure vets. We do at least have Poehling in that role and I'm sure the injury bug will catch up with us soon and increase the rate.

And let's be honest, most of the time the kids that do get played get regarded as boring veterans to be complained about in roughly a year anyway. Only difference then is they're cheaper, but that's quickly disappearing in this league anyway.

 

[Empoleon8771]

At least we’re complaining about a 4th liner making $2.75 million not performing instead of a top-4 D, top-6 winger or Malkin/Letang not performing

You could be in a lot worse of a position than McGinn being your only notably paid player who is playing poorly. With Zucker and Malkin having terrific starts, Pettersson putting up great results while being carried by Petry and Letang looking like his normal self, there are a lot worse potential failure points than McGinn.

The only disappointing players so far are McGinn and POJ, and those guys are mostly “not doing anything good” instead of “actively hurting them”.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'd rather bemoan a $2.75 million McGinn on the 4th line than confront the reality that my team's paying a dude $11 million AAV to put up a PPG because he wore pajamas with the team logo on 'em.

 

[HandshakeLine]

At least we’re complaining about a 4th liner making $2.75 million not performing instead of a top-4 D, top-6 winger or Malkin/Letang not performing

You could be in a lot worse of a position than McGinn being your only notably paid player who is playing poorly. With Zucker and Malkin having terrific starts, Pettersson putting up great results while being carried by Petry and Letang looking like his normal self, there are a lot worse potential failure points than McGinn.

The only disappointing players so far are McGinn and POJ, and those guys are mostly “not doing anything good” instead of “actively hurting them”.

True, it's great that this is the extent of our early season worries. I'll cop to that.

I just want them to adjust the bottom 6 and some minor stuff though because this is probably as close as we'll get to a legit last hurrah shot so it'd be a shame to waste it because we've got a bad case of sunk-costitis with our bottom 6 and 3rd pairing and fixing it is just simply too hard.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

And let's be honest, most of the time the kids that do get played get regarded as boring veterans to be complained about in roughly a year anyway. Only difference then is they're cheaper, but that's quickly disappearing in this league anyway.

Ha... nobody cares until they start making more than an ELC and pundits start writing articles and posting heat maps about their "elite" qualities.

Regardless Empo is right. Nice to be picking at something as minor as the fourth line.

Give it time.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'd rather bemoan a $2.75 million McGinn on the 4th line than confront the reality that my team's paying a dude $11 million AAV to put up a PPG because he wore pajamas with the team logo on 'em.

Wait what?

It must be past my bedtime because this makes about as much sense to me as our PK novelty schemes.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also on POJ, even though I haven’t liked what I’ve seen with the eye test, he certainly hasn’t been terrible either. 2 points in 3 games with being a positive player, having good analytics and throwing hits (he’s at 6 hits in 3 games) is hardly the worst thing in the world to get out of your 3rd pair LD.

I don’t think he should be playing over Smith, but he doesn’t really seem like he has been “bad” outside of specific bad plays that have been noticeably bad.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If nothing else this idea of trying to build his value to make him easy to move is going well so far.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Also on POJ, even though I haven’t liked what I’ve seen with the eye test, he certainly hasn’t been terrible either. 2 points in 3 games with being a positive player, having good analytics and throwing hits (he’s at 6 hits in 3 games) is hardly the worst thing in the world to get out of your 3rd pair LD.

I don’t think he should be playing over Smith, but he doesn’t really seem like he has been “bad” outside of specific bad plays that have been noticeably bad.

If nothing else this idea of trying to build his value to make him easy to move is going well so far.

Yeah, I feel like they're trying to pump his value and move him. Dude got, what 12 minutes TOI last night and still had a point? Sounds like they're going to insulate him as much as possible get those numbers up and then hopefully someone bites.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Wait what?

It must be past my bedtime because this makes about as much sense to me as our PK novelty schemes.

Tavares. When he was a UFA that summer after leaving the Isles, there were a buncha pictures of him sleeping in Maple Leafs pj's as a kid before he signed that asinine contract to end up as their PPG 2nd line center.

 

[SEALBound]

Also on POJ, even though I haven’t liked what I’ve seen with the eye test, he certainly hasn’t been terrible either. 2 points in 3 games with being a positive player, having good analytics and throwing hits (he’s at 6 hits in 3 games) is hardly the worst thing in the world to get out of your 3rd pair LD.

I don’t think he should be playing over Smith, but he doesn’t really seem like he has been “bad” outside of specific bad plays that have been noticeably bad.

Yeah he hasn't been a detriment for sure. Couple bad plays here and there but he tends to cancel them out at some point with an equally good play. More than fine with him as a #6 right now. Sometimes, being young and having waiver-exempt status bites you in the butt but at the same time, Smith is getting premium minutes in the AHL so it's not like he's in the press box rotting.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Tavares. When he was a UFA that summer after leaving the Isles, there were a buncha pictures of him sleeping in Maple Leafs pj's as a kid before he signed that asinine contract to end up as their PPG 2nd line center.

Oh that's right. I forgot he was such an utter dork.

 

[SEALBound]

Tavares. When he was a UFA that summer after leaving the Isles, there were a buncha pictures of him sleeping in Maple Leafs pj's as a kid before he signed that asinine contract to end up as their PPG 2nd line center.

I was actually talking to a buddy over the weekend about him. We were doing a thought experiment on if they balked at Tavaras and kept Kadri. With the extra money, they could have kept a bunch of good depth guys, particularly Hyman. Then there's Johnsson, Kapanen, Brown - all guys that could give you the depth needed to win a round.