Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[Gurglesons]

If we are hunting LDs I wonder if Philly moves us Provorov. He’d be a perfect LD for Letang IMO.

Also if Monahan has a decent season wonder if we could package Kapanen for him.

 

[dogthateats]

After outscoring our opponents 12 to 4 in the opening 2 games to start the season HFBoards have identified a need to acquire a top 6 scoring winger.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Seems silly to not add another top nine forward with how lacking our depth is if any of our top six options go down.

I am all for getting middle six winger as injury insurance. I think where you and I probably differ is that I'm willing to trade Pettersson to clear the cap space. Hell, I'd still be interested in a Blueger/Pettersson combo deal if that is still out there somewhere.

That said, I don't think the Pens will be aggressive and it'll be more of a reaction to cap space/injuries than anything else. They'll try to fill from within for a while if there are injuries.

 

[Peat]

At the end of the day, I think what Zucker is doing and is going to do over the next 40-60 games (before we must make decisions) matters far more than what he's done.

Talking about trading him 2 games into the season, when he's looking fantastic but doesn't have trade value to match it, is madness. Talking about trading anyone other than POJ 2 games into the season is pretty barking, but someone who is currently at high value in performance and low value in trade takes it many steps further.

How we feel about this in 20 games, 40 games, 60 games, remains to be seen. But there's zero reason to jump the gun.

If we are hunting LDs I wonder if Philly moves us Provorov. He’d be a perfect LD for Letang IMO.

Also if Monahan has a decent season wonder if we could package Kapanen for him.

Feel like Philadelphia just won't trade with us in this moment of time. Even without the rivalry, they're too busy scapegoating Hextall to go and make him look good.

 

[SEALBound]

Seems silly to not add another top nine forward with how lacking our depth is if any of our top six options go down.

Maybe. We do have Heinen and Kapanen and quite possibly someone waiting in the wings in WBS. I agree that it's too early to be saying this until we see how it shakes out a little more.

After outscoring our opponents 12 to 4 in the opening 2 games to start the season HFBoards have identified a need to acquire a top 6 scoring winger.

Those games don't count. Only games that Zucker did bad in count.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

GMRH was able to snag Rakell for our late 2nd round pick last year, if he can land that type of true top 6 forward again, then it's obviously something we should be looking at. If we can either include Zucker to even out the cap hits, or just push him down the lineup, then fine.

Though Zucker [at times] plays the type of game we need in the playoffs, he is not able to physically hold up to that game. If you can get a more durable player who is stronger on the defensive side of the puck, especially if they play with an edge, you do it.

Let's not pretend his injuries are just bad luck. Little guys like him tend to fall apart in their late 20's trying to play that game, just look at Gallagher.

 

[SEALBound]

GMRH was able to snag Rakell for our late 2nd round pick last year, if he can land that type of true top 6 forward again, then it's obviously something we should be looking at. If we can either include Zucker to even out the cap hits, or just push him down the lineup, then fine.

Though Zucker [at times] plays the type of game we need in the playoffs, he is not able to physically hold up to that game. If you can get a more durable player who is stronger on the defensive side of the puck, especially if they play with an edge, you do it.

Let's not pretend his injuries are just bad luck. Little guys like him tend to fall apart in their late 20's trying to play that game, just look at Gallagher.

He was able to snag Rakell for a 2nd...and a top goalie prospect - Calle Clang. So let's not pretend it was merely a late 2nd. He was also available because he was a UFA and Anaheim was out of the playoff picture at that point. Those circumstances are hard to determine 2 games into the season. We also don't know if Zucker will continue the play. Maybe yes, maybe no. All we really know right now is that it will likely take quite the additional payment to get someone better than him in...and we can't even conclude that the player would be all that much better at this point.

He was certainly plagued by injuries but it's obtuse to suggest that bad luck didn't play a role. You're kind of contradicting yourself here too - you're suggesting that guys that play the type of game Zucker does don't hold up (and I think we can show examples that both support and refute that) but then you're advocating getting the exact same type of player...just "more durable". And you apparently want someone who is more defensive...but looking at recent stats, I have no idea why.

Zucker is also 5'11,190lbs, so he's not exactly a small guy. True, he's not 6'6, 240lbs but there are plenty of guys his size that remain effective. I think we all wanted Ondrej Palat here, yes? He plays the game we want, yes? He's the exact same height and weight as Zucker. Pointing to one or two examples of guys having injury issue and suggesting Zucker will follow suit is a meager argument at best. If Gallagher was making $5.5mil for one more year, no one would give a shit.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Or maybe we just recognize Danton Heinen is a top nine guy.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

And McGinn had a direct hand in allowing 1/3 of those goals while SH.
People act like PKing takes a significant amount of skill or grit to do it effectively. You need at least 1 of the following 2 traits to PK.

1) Speed
2) High hockey IQ

I wouldn't say McGinn has either of those.

He's a luxury on the 4th line and yes we'll likely have some injuries where he'll be the 1st bumped up. But there are also cheaper options available in WBS who can fill in. He's just so vanilla and brings to appreciable trait to this team.

We're past the point where we can question his PK ability. There was more than enough evidence last year and he was at the 75 percentile at it in Carolina long term.
He is quite fast, and his hockey IQ is decent. There's more to it than that anyway. Communication, experience, battle level, stamina, courage...

Things will get easier for that unit when Blue comes back and it becomes more familiar and structured.

I don't care if he's "vanilla". People said Heinen is too. He was excellent last year and so far this year.
I only care about contributions to winning. Being different does not mean being good by default.

 

[SomeDude]

Cursed thread title. We would have went 82-0 without it.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

We're past the point where we can question his PK ability. There was more than enough evidence last year and he was at the 75 percentile at it in Carolina long term.
He is quite fast, and his hockey IQ is decent. There's more to it than that anyway. Communication, experience, battle level, stamina, courage...

Things will get easier for that unit when Blue comes back and it becomes more familiar and structured.

I don't care if he's "vanilla". People said Heinen is too. He was excellent last year and so far this year.
I only care about contributions to winning. Being different does not mean being good by default.

Just bc others said Heinen is vanilla doesn't mean I did.
I'm still curious what redeeming qualities Brock brings to this team at $3M? Boyle put up comparable numbers with less ice time and more difficult zone times.

It's two games in.

It's an example whose validity is being explored with numbers and context. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

You have to be pretty naive to not see what's blooming in Detroit. 2 games in means jack, but you can see they're a solid young team.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I'm still curious what redeeming qualities Brock brings to this team at $3M? Boyle put up comparable numbers with less ice time and more difficult zone times.

Yes Boyle was actually a very proficient scorer for us relative to usage. It's unlikely he would have been able to do it again though.
Wish they clarified if the Pens refused to bring him back or he just wanted to retire.

I already gave my view on how Brock came close to justifying his AAV last year a few times, so I don't wanna beat it to death.

Post history about it:

Line Combos: - Pens 2022-2023 Training Camp thread: Its happenings

Hextall revamped the medical staff this off season but what he really needed to do was lift whatever curse it is that continues to plague us with injuries

forums.hfboards.com

Salary Cap: - Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

After one game (against an AHL team), Zucker revitalized his career as a Penguin. You're allowed to enjoy good performances y'know

forums.hfboards.com

I think people are jumping to conclusions because they want their summer takes to look right after 3 games.
I'm patient. It's a long ass season. I agree with people he's not playing well right now but I'll wait until Blueger comes back to see what effect that has on the 4th line and PK.

 

[SomeDude]

Yes Boyle was actually a very proficient scorer for us relative to usage. It's unlikely he would have been able to do it again though.
Wish they clarified if the Pens refused to bring him back or he just wanted to retire.

I remember reading something around the start of camp that the Pens considered bringing Boyle back on a PTO but ultimately decided to move on. I'm guessing the Poehling addition officially pushed him out.

 

[Zbynek]

After outscoring our opponents 12 to 4 in the opening 2 games to start the season HFBoards have identified a need to acquire a top 6 scoring winger.

It's 3 games into the season and miraculously the Penguins have no major injuries.

 

[LOGiK]

Has anyone seen @KIRK in reality? Anyone know him? I know he was older... but... more worrying is his last post:

"well hopefully it’s more helpful than the oujia board I’ve been consulting"
-November 2021

Pretty darn ominous. I mean... wat the heck! Are you out there KIRK!?!?

 

[Gurglesons]

Has anyone seen @KIRK in reality? Anyone know him? I know he was older... but... more worrying is his last post:

"well hopefully it’s more helpful than the oujia board I’ve been consulting"
-November 2021

Pretty darn ominous. I mean... wat the heck! Are you out there KIRK!?!?

I think @ColePens said he is alright.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You have to be pretty naive to not see what's blooming in Detroit. 2 games in means jack, but you can see they're a solid young team.

Every year, promising young teams looking to make a leap struggle to take that next step. We'll see how Detroit does.

 

[Andy99]

Has anyone seen @KIRK in reality? Anyone know him? I know he was older... but... more worrying is his last post:

"well hopefully it’s more helpful than the oujia board I’ve been consulting"
-November 2021

Pretty darn ominous. I mean... wat the heck! Are you out there KIRK!?!?

I miss him and wish he would return…he adds so much to the GDTs and PGTs…and he’s younger than me lol

 

[Darren McCord]

If we are hunting LDs I wonder if Philly moves us Provorov. He’d be a perfect LD for Letang IMO.

Also if Monahan has a decent season wonder if we could package Kapanen for him.

Philly isn't moving Provorov. They are diluted and trying to win. You dont sign sanheim then trade his partner.

And why? Monahan would last a game here before he went on IR at the rate this teams players get injured

 

[Gurglesons]

Philly isn't moving Provorov. They are diluted and trying to win. You dont sign sanheim then trade his partner.

And why? Monahan would last a game here before he went on IR at the rate this teams players get injured

Sanheim and Provorov play the same side. They’ve been rumored to be exploring the market for him for awhile and the Sanheim contract actually makes it more likely.

 

[Darren McCord]

Sanheim and Provorov play the same side. They’ve been rumored to be exploring the market for him for awhile and the Sanheim contract actually makes it more likely.

Oo got that mixed up but I still dont agree. Flyers arent trading there top LD dmen. Sanheim is not better than Provorov. Fletchers and idiot but even he isnt going to be moving Provorov. Their defense would be a nightmare.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

View attachment 595455
Yes Boyle was actually a very proficient scorer for us relative to usage. It's unlikely he would have been able to do it again though.
Wish they clarified if the Pens refused to bring him back or he just wanted to retire.

I already gave my view on how Brock came close to justifying his AAV last year a few times, so I don't wanna beat it to death.

Post history about it:

Line Combos: - Pens 2022-2023 Training Camp thread: Its happenings

Hextall revamped the medical staff this off season but what he really needed to do was lift whatever curse it is that continues to plague us with injuries

forums.hfboards.com

Salary Cap: - Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

After one game (against an AHL team), Zucker revitalized his career as a Penguin. You're allowed to enjoy good performances y'know

forums.hfboards.com

I think people are jumping to conclusions because they want their summer takes to look right after 3 games.
I'm patient. It's a long ass season. I agree with people he's not playing well right now but I'll wait until Blueger comes back to see what effect that has on the 4th line and PK.

It's not about jumping to conclusions. McGinn is a bland hockey player that was supposed to bring a physical presence. He hasn't done that. He didn't do it last year and through 3 games he's the same.

I've outlined why "PK Specialists" are just a McGuffin of NHL coaches and are used for justification for keeping mediocre to unskilled guys on the roster.

We've got a handful of WBS guys that would likely produce similar stats at ES and PKing if given the same opportunity as the winged god of PK that McGinn supposedly brings.

I've also shown that McGinn blew his coverage in this sequence (2:30 mark) and can't do what his calling card allegedly is


I expect this from league min guys, but at some point you have to bring value at your price point. Right now McGinn has done nothing during his Pens tenure to justify his price tag

 

[Gurglesons]

It's not about jumping to conclusions. McGinn is a bland hockey player that was supposed to bring a physical presence. He hasn't done that. He didn't do it last year and through 3 games he's the same.

I've outlined why "PK Specialists" are just a McGuffin of NHL coaches and are used for justification for keeping mediocre to unskilled guys on the roster.

We've got a handful of WBS guys that would likely produce similar stats at ES and PKing if given the same opportunity as the winged god of PK that McGinn supposedly brings.

I've also shown that McGinn blew his coverage in this sequence (2:30 mark) and can't do what his calling card allegedly is


I expect this from league min guys, but at some point you have to bring value at your price point. Right now McGinn has done nothing during his Pens tenure to justify his price tag

McGinn was 100% worth his cap hit last season given his usage.

His start to this season has been very, very bad. But, if he can level out to be a 12-15 goal guy we should be good.

 

[Pancakes]

Not gonna read too much into the fourth lines play until Blueger is back and on it. Yeah they've been decidedly meh at best so far but that's not the look we'll be running with when healthy. Blueger will add a lot to that line

 

[ColePens]

I think @ColePens said he is alright.

Yep! @LOGiK - he's good. He's enjoying a nice calm life lol!