Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[HandshakeLine]

Which is why if we decide Dumo is effectively done at the end of the year, I'd like to throw the kitchen sink at finding his replacement. I'd very much like an upgrade, but even if we can't, I'd like to at least get back to prime Dumo and it'll be hard.

Of course, we should be targeting the best possible 1LD, I totally agree there. I'm just saying that it's more important to find someone who can click with Letang than it is to find this mythical top pairing guy. That should be the primary goal when replacing Dumo.

But either way I think the worst cause of action would be to not just extend Dumo, but expect him to keep that 1st pairing role.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean... Meier would rule, too. And Kane IS a douchebag.

But like... I dunno. Why does it feel like we're always making excuses to not put together a truly magnificent top six late in this core's career? Pretty much do or die time. What do ya'll wanna spend the money on? Third liners, rebuilding a top dollar left side and like five goaltenders just in case? *yawn*

I want to win a cup and the last time a team won a cup by adding a top six winger at the deadline was in 2014 and a lot of that was also having internal players come up and form the That 70s line.

 

[Peat]

Which is pretty much what Dumo is! He's not a legit 1D, he's a 3/4 guy who plays well on a top pairing with a more talented player. It's a nifty skill. I don't get why it's so contentious, but then again, I don't get a lot of things about this site sometimes.

Like it's no shame that he was a great top 4 player in his prime who found a way to click with a much more talented, but erratic, Letang and become a stabilizing influence in the blueline. That's fantastic. That also doesn't make Dumo = Lidstrom.

Because most 3/4 players can't do that.

Which makes calling him just a 3/4 player without further interrogation of what he is misleading.

I mean... Meier would rule, too. And Kane IS a douchebag.

But like... I dunno. Why does it feel like we're always making excuses to not put together a truly magnificent top six late in this core's career? Pretty much do or die time. What do ya'll wanna spend the money on? Third liners, rebuilding a top dollar left side and like five goaltenders just in case? *yawn*

I'm down for a truly magnificent top six.

I don't think truly magnificent top sixes in today's NHL are built around lots of players who want to be the focal point, or who want to do lots of creating and not a lot of battling.

Put it another way - I would have rather added Nuke than Gaudreau from last year's FAs if we could have just added one regardless of cost or anything (not that Nuke made it to FA).

 

[HandshakeLine]

Because Max Talbot wasn't the # 1 winger on a cup winner.

Dumoulin from 15-16 through 18-19 was a legitimate top pairing defensive D who could eat 23-24 minutes a night and be a net positive.

This is the kind of pedantry you only get at the DMV, my dude.

 

[dogthateats]

What severe injury could Kane even get here?

 

[Gurglesons]

This is the kind of pedantry you only get at the DMV, my dude.

I mean you are just down right wrong here. There is a reason we didn't win another cup until we had a legitimate top pairing defensive D with Letang. If you could just put a mid pairing defensive guy up there Michalek and Eaton and Orpik would've been fine.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Because most 3/4 players can't do that.

Which makes calling him just a 3/4 player without further interrogation of what he is misleading.

Didn't Petry do that for Montreal last year? And Trouba for the Rags?

I mean you are just down right wrong here. There is a reason we didn't win another cup until we had a legitimate top pairing defensive D with Letang. If you could just put a mid pairing defensive guy up there Michalek and Eaton and Orpik would've been fine.

I mean, Orpik was probably only generously a 4. Eaton and Michalek were bottom pairing guys that were miscast.

People love to overrate our d but man, we have had a lot of legitimately awful bluelines since Sid joined the team and it's frankly a testament to the centers that we won anything at all.

 

[chethejet]

Canucks still need cap room to sign Horvat and maybe they don't retain 2 but how many teams want to take on over 7 AAV for 5 years? Pens taking on that contract is still something the Canucks benefit from. Plus if one believes the window is roughly 3 years, OEL here for that time is not the worst thing even at 5.7 AAV with 1.5m per in retention. . Mcginn with 8 million and Dumo at 4 saves the Canucks some serious coin so yes even retaining, the Pens are absorbing even at 1.5 million per from the 7.2 is over 18 million of cash.

 

[HandshakeLine]

What severe injury could Kane even get here?

Hopefully lead poisoning.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Strong disagree. Offence wise, yeah, he's a 4D at best, but defence wise he's a straight up 1st pairing guy. There's a big jump between 2nd pairing responsibilities and 1st pairing responsibilities on most teams. If every 3/4 blueliner could be a 1st pairing defensive dman, we'd already have another Dumo.

He was very good at 1 on 1 defending, but he's never been a standout away from the puck. He makes too many small mistakes in positioning

 

[HandshakeLine]

He was very good at 1 on 1 defending, but he's never been a standout away from the puck. He makes too many small mistakes in positioning

Yeah, I really don't get this recasting of Dumo as a never-fail defensive genius. Go through the old GDTs and read some of the comments during the Letang Has Leprosy phase.

Like I'm not saying he's a terrible defenseman or anything, (he's not!) but this ultra hagiography of Dumo is f***ing weird.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He was very good at 1 on 1 defending, but he's never been a standout away from the puck. He makes too many small mistakes in positioning

Dumo's main ability is his IQ, IMO. But frankly his skating most of his career was damn good for a big guy. It's why so many people are detecting a step back... his skating has obviously taken a knock. I think you are correct that he has often been not great away from the puck but due to his smarts and ability to get back into the play quickly via his above-average skating it wasn't the biggest deal results-wise. I think we're seeing that go the other way now that he can't wheel like he used to.

Good point.

 

[Peat]

Didn't Petry do that for Montreal last year? And Trouba for the Rags?

Petry got absolutely destroyed doing so no, he didn't do it well.

Trouba was never on NYR's top pairing except through injury because he plays the same side as Adam Fox. Their Dumos next to Fox is Ryan Lindgren, and it's kinda noticeable how we tormented Shesterkin with Lindgren out and stopped doing so when he was back in. That said, everyone thought Trouba was a straight 1D when NYR got him which is why he got 8m, and while he floundered in a weaker system with less attacking responsibility, the idea of him looking more than a 3/4 shouldn't be at all surprising.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Dumo's main ability is his IQ, IMO. But frankly his skating most of his career was damn good for a big guy. It's why so many people are detecting a step back... his skating has obviously taken a knock. I think you are correct that he has often been not great away from the puck but due to his smarts and ability to get back into the play quickly via his above-average skating it wasn't the biggest deal results-wise. I think we're seeing that go the other way now that he can't wheel like he used to.

Good point.

His skating and his reach allowed him to do well at 1on1 defending. It was difficult to beat him to the outside because of his wheels and his reach made it difficult to stickhandle near him.

His diminished skating ability means he's a lot easier to beat 1on1 now and his away from the puck positioning can't compensate for it.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I look forward to when the Penguins let Dumo go and he plays for some other team decently enough with an absolute stud in his prime as his partner only for Ron Hextall to re-sign him when he's like 35 years old and utterly washed for like 4+ million. During the press conference Ron, nearly in tears, will wax poetic about how if you can right a wrong and pay a little extra to make sure you get your man... ya gotta do it.

 

[molon labe]

1. Dumo continues his decline. 2. POJ still not an NHLer (seriously what's with the hype - ever? dude pretty much stinks in each end)

Two early takes this year.

Rest of the squad looks quite good... Some of the Summer observations remain but aren't that big of a deal (like McGinn being very, very replaceable for his price - brings nothing).

 

[Darren McCord]

If it is for a Hagelin at 1 mill dollars for multiple years I disagree.

Nah hagel has 13 pts and is a minus 6 in 49 games for the lighting. Right now Chicago made off like bandits. Heck Raddysh has 12pts in 24 games for the blackhawks.

Give me DOC, Hallander, Poulin or Puustinen first. That trade has not looked good for the lighting at all yet.

I want to win a cup and the last time a team won a cup by adding a top six winger at the deadline was in 2014 and a lot of that was also having internal players come up and form the That 70s line.

Lehkonen was a top six for the avs last year in terms of icetime and deployment

 

[Andy99]

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Craig Button says Patrick Kane should come here.

Please listen to Craig, Hextall…

I think the reality is Button's right, he's the type of player who gets you soft goals and we don't have that.

I still think he's not a fit in our top six and would rather pony up that package for a player like Meier who brings what we want.

No need for him in top six when he can lug the puck and run his own line…we could have a HBK again for the POs…

 

[Randy Butternubs]

With what cap space?

As the Pens are pacing now, two teams would have to retain 50% on him to get him down to just 25%. Chicago and whatever team before sending him to Pittsburgh. This is assuming a trade deadline deal. Then the Pens could have to clear out a player with a cap hit of more than $2.625M.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

As the Pens are pacing now, two teams would have to retain 50% on him to get him down to just 25%. Chicago and whatever team before sending him to Pittsburgh. This is assuming a trade deadline deal. Then the Pens could have to clear out a player with a cap hit of more than $2.625M.

Enter the Arizona "Friendly Neighborhood Contract Laundering" Coyotes!

 

[Darren McCord]

Please listen to Craig, Hextall…


No need for him in top six when he can lug the puck and run his own line…we could have a HBK again for the POs…

Kane could also easily fit in the top 6. It is dumb to think otherwise. He is a smart player who can adjust. He would be the top flight scorer geno needs.

Jake - Sid - Rakell
Zucker - Geno - Kane
Heinen - Carter - Rust

Thats a hell of a top 9. Who cares about top 6. Talk about the top 9. Thats 2 first lines and a second line.

As the Pens are pacing now, two teams would have to retain 50% on him to get him down to just 25%. Chicago and whatever team before sending him to Pittsburgh. This is assuming a trade deadline deal. Then the Pens could have to clear out a player with a cap hit of more than $2.625M.

Ooo it is a good thing they have a player who makes 2.75 that could be traded.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

As the Pens are pacing now, two teams would have to retain 50% on him to get him down to just 25%. Chicago and whatever team before sending him to Pittsburgh. This is assuming a trade deadline deal. Then the Pens could have to clear out a player with a cap hit of more than $2.625M.

Or if only Chicago can retain 50% then the Pens need to send out a player with a cap hit of $5.25M or more.

edit: Doesn't need to be just one player. Hope that was obvious. Just needs to sum to at least those totals I mentioned.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Meh. I dunno, guys. We wouldn't want them to be TOO good.

What about a nice, solid 5M dollar tweener type that handles the puck like a live grenade when they are elevated to a scoring line? Hmmm? Wouldn't that be way nicer?

 

[dogthateats]

Meh. I dunno, guys. We wouldn't want them to be TOO good.

What about a nice, solid 5M dollar tweener type that handles the puck like a live grenade when they are elevated to a scoring line? Hmmm? Wouldn't that be way nicer?

Oooo I like this idea!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Meh. I dunno, guys. We wouldn't want them to be TOO good.

What about a nice, solid 5M dollar tweener type that handles the puck like a live grenade when they are elevated to a scoring line? Hmmm? Wouldn't that be way nicer?

Who's the next available Zucker/Kapanen? We need someone of that ilk to blow our 1st and top prospect on acquiring.