Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Who's the next available Zucker/Kapanen? We need someone of that ilk to blow our 1st and top prospect on acquiring.

Garland seems like a good bet.

Also guys, look... you need to be realistic about this. Little Johnny down the road doesn't have the greatest scoring line wingers, either. Why should WE have them? Plus we just can't afford it! That 20ish million in cap space next year is a mirage. And even if it wasn't I need all of it for uh... stuff.

 

[Gurglesons]

Who's the next available Zucker/Kapanen? We need someone of that ilk to blow our 1st and top prospect on acquiring.

I think you’ll see us target the next Rakell / Carter versus a man undersized speedy winger given Hextall’s history.

Feels like JVR, Nyquist or Monahan is the type he adds. I would’ve included Okposo prior to him getting the C to that group.

Garland seems like a good bet.

Also guys, look... you need to be realistic about this. Little Johnny down the road doesn't have the greatest scoring line wingers, either. Why should WE have them? Plus we just can't afford it! That 20ish million in cap space next year is a mirage. And even if it wasn't I need all of it for uh... stuff.

Seems like a weird statement given the overall depth in the top six is IMO without question the most talented it’s been in the Sid and Geno era.

 

[Pancakes]

Malkin and Kane on the same line would be hilarious to watch defensively. If you thought Malkin/Kessel was rough there, wait til you see this.

It'd probably be counterbalanced by the utter domination they'd show in the offensive zone though.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Seems like a weird statement given the overall depth in the top six is IMO without question the most talented it’s been in the Sid and Geno era.

Right? Like I said... this is as good as it gets. Why should they try to put themselves over the top? That might be entertaining!

 

[Gurglesons]

Right? Like I said... this is as good as it gets. Why should they try to put themselves over the top? That might be entertaining!

Because it rarely works.

It isn’t really a need.

And I think you wouldn’t see the difference you are expecting.

If it happens I’ll be excited, but looks a lot like Florida adding Giroux IMO.

NYR is the obvious fit from a Kane perspective. Legitimizing that second line.

 

[dogthateats]

Josh Anderson would be good but he is only signed for 4 more years at $5.5 after this one and is only 28 years old.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The last time the "difference I was expecting" led to B2B Cups so I'm fine being wrong haha

Talent wins. That's always been the case.

What is really the harm? They aren't winning anything anyway, right? They have the space next year. Forget Kane... he's just a stand-in to my larger point. Shoot your damned shot, already. Stop fooling around with also-ran kinda guys. I'm totally fine with the top six as of now, frankly but I guess the difference between me and some of you is that I see a Sid that can still play at a super high level with killer linemates already in place, I see a potentially resurgent Malkin, a better-than-solid defense and a perfectly serviceable bottom six if deployed right and get excited to see what one big last piece might do. You guys want to like... talk about adding solid depth pieces or spend even more money on goaltending or something. C'mon.

I mean hell with it... if they aren't contenders anyway at least make some f***in' waves, man. They've tried the whole "overwhelm the opposition with waves of samey mediocrity" thing for years and it hasn't worked. Er... my bad... I meant "solid middle six depth players." Try something bold. Last time they did it paid off.

 

[Andy99]

Malkin and Kane on the same line would be hilarious to watch defensively. If you thought Malkin/Kessel was rough there, wait til you see this.

It'd probably be counterbalanced by the utter domination they'd show in the offensive zone though.

you know he won’t even get one thought to be placed on L2 if we somehow landed him…he’s going to play with Sid and Rakell will be dropped to L3 lol…

 

[Gurglesons]

The last time the "difference I was expecting" led to B2B Cups so I'm fine being wrong haha

Talent wins. That's always been the case.

What is really the harm? They aren't winning anything anyway, right? They have the space next year. Forget Kane... he's just a stand-in to my larger point. Shoot your damned shot, already. Stop fooling around with also-ran kinda guys. I'm totally fine with the top six as of now, frankly but I guess the difference between me and some of you is that I see a Sid that can still play at a super high level with killer linemates already in place, I see a potentially resurgent Malkin, a better-than-solid defense and a perfectly serviceable bottom six if deployed right and get excited to see what one big last piece might do. You guys want to like... talk about adding solid depth pieces or spend even more money on goaltending or something. C'mon.

I mean hell with it... if they aren't contenders anyway at least make some f***in' waves, man.

Have they not been? We revamped the entire D and brought back at pretty fun top nine.

Feels like you’re still coming down from the Rutherford make a trade every four weeks era.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Have they not been? We revamped the entire D and brought back at pretty fun top nine.

Feels like you’re still coming down from the Rutherford make a trade every four weeks era.

Nah man don't put that evil on me. I like to be entertained but not at the expense of their top picks and whatever is left of the prospect pool for the ever-changing whims of one madman GM.

They have done a great job with what they were handed so far. Better than I had hoped. I'm just saying they have maneuvered themselves into a spot where they COULD pull something like that off. And they absolutely should. Why the resistance?

 

[Gurglesons]

Nah man don't put that evil on me. I like to be entertained but not at the expense of their top picks and whatever is left of the prospect pool for the ever-changing whims of one madman GM.

They have done a great job with what they were handed so far. Better than I had hoped. I'm just saying they have maneuvered themselves into a spot where they COULD pull something like that off. And they absolutely should. Why the resistance?

No resistance, it's just we have the trio. Sid, Jake and Malkin are the trio. We didn't have the trio when we acquired Kessel.

Adding Kane just seems like a situation of too many cooks.

Like realistically what does he bring that we don't already have in the top six?

 

[Peat]

Kane could also easily fit in the top 6. It is dumb to think otherwise. He is a smart player who can adjust. He would be the top flight scorer geno needs.

Jake - Sid - Rakell
Zucker - Geno - Kane
Heinen - Carter - Rust

Thats a hell of a top 9. Who cares about top 6. Talk about the top 9. Thats 2 first lines and a second line.

Bryan Rust has been a better 5v5 goalscorer than Patrick Kane the last three seasons. More goals per sixty off of less shots - and he's doing that in enough minutes and at a high enough level of competition than per sixty is simply a way of equalising Kane getting 2:10 more a night and playing 30-odd more games. Another way of putting it is Rust has a goal pace of just 1 goal behind Patrick Kane in the last 3 seasons despite playing 2 minutes a night less.

So either Geno already has a top flight goalscorer, or Kane isn't one anymore. He scores more than he should given his shooting locations but he's not top flight.

He is still a top flight playmaker, but how much do we need that in the top 6?

 

[Gurglesons]

Bryan Rust has been a better 5v5 goalscorer than Patrick Kane the last three seasons. More goals per sixty off of less shots - and he's doing that in enough minutes and at a high enough level of competition than per sixty is simply a way of equalising Kane getting 2:10 more a night and playing 30-odd more games. Another way of putting it is Rust has a goal pace of just 1 goal behind Patrick Kane in the last 3 seasons despite playing 2 minutes a night less.

So either Geno already has a top flight goalscorer, or Kane isn't one anymore. He scores more than he should given his shooting locations but he's not top flight.

He is still a top flight playmaker, but how much do we need that in the top 6?

I think you could argue bringing him in if he was 6'3 and PK'd and was a great play maker / defensive specialist ala Mark Stone..

But the issue is Kane just is like you said more of the same. Undersized playmaker who is suspect defensively and is a powerplay merchant.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

No resistance, it's just we have the trio. Sid, Jake and Malkin are the trio. We didn't have the trio when we acquired Kessel.

Adding Kane just seems like a situation of too many cooks.

Like realistically what does he bring that we don't already have in the top six?

Eh like I said Kane is more a stand-in to my overall point. Don't get caught up on Kane. If they did that this year it would be a clear rental IMO. Give 'er the ol' Iginla/Hossa try and all that. I wouldn't complain and would be excited but I tend to agree that Kane is the kind of player that needs to see the puck way too much to work on a line with Crosby or Malkin long term. Or maybe even the PP (wrong handed for what I'd want there, anyway).

I'm talking more moving ahead. Maybe it's just my perception but every time I talk about wanting to see a killer trigger man brought in or something similar people start to tut-tut and talk about all the reasons it would never work and why it's best to be content with what is there. Hell with that lol

 

[Gurglesons]

Eh like I said Kane is more a stand-in to my overall point. Don't get caught up on Kane. If they did that this year it would be a clear rental IMO. Give 'er the ol' Iginla/Hossa try and all that. I wouldn't complain and would be excited but I tend to agree that Kane is the kind of player that needs to see the puck way too much to work on a line with Crosby or Malkin long term. Or maybe even the PP (wrong handed for what I'd want there, anyway).

I'm talking more moving ahead. Maybe it's just my perception but every time I talk about wanting to see a killer trigger man brought in or something similar people start to tut-tut and talk about all the reasons it would never work and why it's best to be content with what is there. Hell with that lol

I think the cap is set up to bring in a big piece next year.

How big is a question.. but I feel like the swing for another legitimate top 6 forward in the Kreider archetype.

Which is why I see us targeting JVR. I also see Nyquist as the perfect fit for this top nine. That of course is not in UFA next year just as deadline adds.

Nyquist is a top six talent that can play top nine. He's an excellent penalty killer and he's a Sullivan type.

 

[Peat]

Eh like I said Kane is more a stand-in to my overall point. Don't get caught up on Kane. If they did that this year it would be a clear rental IMO. Give 'er the ol' Iginla/Hossa try and all that. I wouldn't complain and would be excited but I tend to agree that Kane is the kind of player that needs to see the puck way too much to work on a line with Crosby or Malkin long term. Or maybe even the PP (wrong handed for what I'd want there, anyway).

I'm talking more moving ahead. Maybe it's just my perception but every time I talk about wanting to see a killer trigger man brought in or something similar people start to tut-tut and talk about all the reasons it would never work and why it's best to be content with what is there. Hell with that lol

I freely admit I'm anti-rental.

But I'm all on board for finding a big piece or two, just they've got to bring things we don't have. Bringing in a hardcore LD, or a legit scoring top sixer with big off the puck impacts or physicality, or yeah a real elite shooter without killer flaws... so on board. That's what I want Hextall to do badly. I think that can move us back to Tier 1 contenders.

Another focal point playmaker who increasingly needs other guys to be his legs and who probably doesn't use his shot enough is oil to Texas.

 

[Andy99]

No resistance, it's just we have the trio. Sid, Jake and Malkin are the trio. We didn't have the trio when we acquired Kessel.

Adding Kane just seems like a situation of too many cooks.

Like realistically what does he bring that we don't already have in the top six?

What Kane brings primarily is an elite puck carrier and PP player…have you watched our PP fail repeatedly in critical times during the POs? He is much needed…a couple more PP goals would have won that Rags series

 

[Gurglesons]

What Kane brings primarily is an elite puck carrier and PP player…have you watched our PP fail repeatedly in critical times during the POs? He is much needed…a couple more PP goals would have won that Rags series

Crosby, Jake, Malkin and Rust all have more powerplay goals than Kane over the last few seasons.

Kane also likes to play where Sid does on the PP.

 

[MayorofWBS]

McGinn has basically three years left on his contract...meaning that no one will be really interested in taking on his contract. Will have to give up a good asset to move him with that term. Come back to this at the end of next season and maybe we can get out of his last year. Blue, POJ, Smith, Zucker are easier to move due to contract status.

 

[Andy99]

Crosby, Jake, Malkin and Rust all have more powerplay goals than Kane over the last few seasons.

Kane also likes to play where Sid does on the PP.

So? The players will find a way to make things work…that shouldn’t be the reason not to pursue him… I mean the cost and/or cap space might be prohibitive but I don’t think where or who he’ll play with should be a reason not to pursue him

 

[Gurglesons]

So? The players will find a way to make things work…that shouldn’t be the reason not to pursue him… I mean the cost and/or cap space might be prohibitive but I don’t think where or who he’ll play with should be a reason not to pursue him

So..? So, he isn't a necessary improvement on the powerplay. He'd be taking Sid's spot and Sid is better.

Making moves just for raw talent is how you end up with Brassard.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I mean if you are worried about postseason hockey Patrick Kane has won a Conn Smythe and 3 cups as the best scorer on his team. Phil is great but he doesn’t hold Kane’s jock in the big picture.

I understand that he’s undersized and somewhat suspect defensively but this is similar to if a different fan base was questioning if Malkin was a good add. Dudes an all-timer.

I think the cost to gut the team is prohibitive- not the player fit.

 

[StIvany4Norris]

New username, RIP Marino

Pretty much all in on the idea of bringing in Kane if he's willing to come to Pittsburgh

They should have cap available next year to resign him so not guaranteed to be a rental

Kap+McGinn+ whatever picks/prospects (genuinely do not care) for Kane @ 50% gives you:

Guentzel-Crosby-Kane
Rakell-Malkin-Rust
Zucker-Carter-Heinen
Poehling-Blueger-DOC/Archibald

If that doesn't get you excited... idk what will. The window is now, who cares about picks/prospects

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean Patrick Kane has won a Conn Smythe. Phil is great but he doesn’t hold Kane’s jock in the big picture.

I understand that he’s undersized and somewhat suspect defensively but this is similar to if a different fan base was questioning if Malkin was a good add. Dudes an all-timer.

I think the cost to gut the team is prohibitive- not the player fit.

If Kane is being traded he's not returning a ton because he controls his own destiny. A 1st, Tippett equivalent and a small add is probably what he goes for.

 

[Andy99]

So..? So, he isn't a necessary improvement on the powerplay. He'd be taking Sid's spot and Sid is better.

Making moves just for raw talent is how you end up with Brassard.

Disagree completely. Kane is an elite talent and does many things well