Salary Cap: Pens Salary and Signing thread: Dr StrangeDubas or How We Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Karlsson Watch

[Freeptop]

I keep looking at Anaheim as a team that could potentially be the third team involved.
According to CapFriendly, they only have 17 players on their NHL roster, and, more importantly, they are still over $13 million under the cap floor. That's, uh, a lot of space they have to fill.

I assume they'll make up most of that gap once they re-sign Terry, Zegras and Drysdale, but that would still leave them pretty close to the Cap floor, and with a couple of roster spots to fill. I'd like to think that they could, at the very least, take on DeSmith. Might even be able to convince them to take Granlund.

Anyone know what's going on over there, in any case? If they're not looking to acquire players from other teams, are they planning on promoting a couple more prospects, or just going bargain hunting later in free agency?

 

[tom_servo]

Doc(not our shitty DOC) gets a lot of flack but I’ll remember his call on the Bonino OT Caps series ending goal for the rest of my life. Chills every time.

I remember blowing a 3-0 lead after taking a third straight delay of game. People here were thinking done in 7 before that Bonino goal.

That series, Lightning series, next Caps series, Sens series. Those runs were nearly stopped in their tracks multiple times.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I remember blowing a 3-0 lead after taking a third straight delay of game. People here were thinking done in 7 before that Bonino goal.

That series, Lightning series, next Caps series, Sens series. Those runs were nearly stopped in their tracks multiple times.

I was doing MBA night classes that night, but the 2016 Pens were a superior team. Our best team of this era.
Yeah the cascading delay of game 5-on-3s were heartbreaking/annoying/comical but as long as we didn't go down I wasn't worried about winning. Or winning the Game 7.
Tampa are the ones that actually had us on the ropes in 2016.

 

[dingo71]

I remember blowing a 3-0 lead after taking a third straight delay of game. People here were thinking done in 7 before that Bonino goal.

That series, Lightning series, next Caps series, Sens series. Those runs were nearly stopped in their tracks multiple times.

There was also Beagle’s miracle stick save on the goal line in OT, I definitely thought we were finished after that. I watched a replay of that game recently and somehow was still a bit nervous

 

[Peat]

I've gone Empo on the trade board and negotiating.

Karlsson (no retention), NJ 2024 2nd which could become a 1st but not likely, Barabanov for DeSmith, Granlund, Petry, Yager and 2024 1st.

Not that any of this matters. I guess we'd be over the cap in getting Barabanov but he seems good. LTIR Carter or do something with Ruutta I guess.

I don't really want to do anything without retention. Makes it real hard to build any depth. If we were to do it without retention I wouldn't give them much at all.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't really want to do anything without retention. Makes it real hard to build any depth. If we were to do it without retention I wouldn't give them much at all.

I don't see us moving more money out than is coming in.

Karlsson = Granlund and Petry salary wise. In two years we probably trade Karlsson at 50% retention anyways. We had Granlund and Petry this offseason and built plenty of depth - just a matter of whether Dubas missed some opportunities to get trade 2 low-quality depth signings for 1 higher-quality depth signing.

I don't see the Sharks eating $3M of Karlsson's salary 2 years from now as being the deciding thing. I was already willing and eager, as most of this board is, for us to spend $2M on Granlund 2 years from now to make him go away (the nature of his buyout).

 

[ChaosAgent]

There was also an alternative deal where DOC is included but SJS retains $1M for the next 4 years. Which admittedly, gains cap for depth at the expense of one of the more promising current depth guys.

 

[Jacob]

Supposedly Emrick would wolf down several bags of popcorn during the games. Seems like a great guy that just loves the game.

 

[Peat]

I don't see us moving more money out than is coming in.

Karlsson = Granlund and Petry salary wise. In two years we probably trade Karlsson at 50% retention anyways. We had Granlund and Petry this offseason and built plenty of depth - just a matter of whether Dubas missed some opportunities to get trade 2 low-quality depth signings for 1 higher-quality depth signing.

I don't see the Sharks eating $3M of Karlsson's salary 2 years from now as being the deciding thing. I was already willing and eager, as most of this board is, for us to spend $2M on Granlund 2 years from now to make him go away (the nature of his buyout).

You're worried about the picks needed to upgrade the team, I'm worried about the cap. 11m on a guy makes it real hard to have the rest of the roster needed.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

I suppose so. It just seems contrary to his goals. If he's willing to move firsts, why didn't he move the 14th overall? Yager is a pretty whatever prospect. He's fine, but he's not likely to be a star.


I miss arguing with Kirk about that.

Pancakes are superior, but I do enjoy waffles as well. French toast is an if I'm in the mood for it thing.

I must respond. Pancakes, even waffles, are often delicious. But the difference between good and average candidates just isn't that huge. Now, French toast is a different animal altogether. Choice of bread is paramount. High density, capable of massive liquid absorption while maintaining integrity is absolutely critical. A fresh challah is exactly what you f***ing want here. Cut thick, too. Two inch slices is not pushing it too far. Don't skimp on finding quality nutmeg, and get decent orange zest, no reason to be lazy, we're talking French toast. And creme. Not 2%, not half&half, f*** that. And, of course. Brandy. Good brandy. Technique. Brown, soft, but NOT soggy. Ask your Canuck friends for maple syrup suggestions. Now we are talking, and we have a food of delicious complexity that trumps all others if prepared with love, devotion and attention to detail.

 

[Pancakes]

I must respond. Pancakes, even waffles, are often delicious. But the difference between good and average candidates just isn't that huge. Now, French toast is a different animal altogether. Choice of bread is paramount. High density, capable of massive liquid absorption while maintaining integrity is absolutely critical. A fresh challah is exactly what you f***ing want here. Cut thick, too. Two inch slices is not pushing it too far. Don't skimp on finding quality nutmeg, and get decent orange zest, no reason to be lazy, we're talking French toast. And creme. Not 2%, not half&half, f*** that. And, of course. Brandy. Good brandy. Technique. Brown, soft, but NOT soggy. Ask your Canuck friends for maple syrup suggestions. Now we are talking, and we have a food of delicious complexity that trumps all others if prepared with love, devotion and attention to detail.

I agree with you on french toast but disagree heavily on your point about pancakes.

The difference between good and mediocre pancakes is massive. A good pancake is nice and light and a little bit flaky/crispy. A bad one is too thick and like eating a hockey puck.

I'm not as picky about waffles. I mean I still enjoy a good eggo waffle lol. But a really well done waffle at a nice breakfast place is of course far superior.

 

[Andy99]

I love that you can get creative with pancakes, even with French toast…but a waffle is, like, pretty much a waffle…they’re so boring…I don’t know how anyone can get excited about them…it’s like getting excited about Mike Sullivan hockey…

 

[ChaosAgent]

You're worried about the picks needed to upgrade the team, I'm worried about the cap. 11m on a guy makes it real hard to have the rest of the roster needed.

$11m on one guy makes it hard, but $11m on Petry and Granlund doesn't?

If we get $3m of EK retention but then buy out Granlund for $2m, there is just a $1m difference between just trading EK for Granlund.

 

[Peat]

$11m on one guy makes it hard, but $11m on Petry and Granlund doesn't?

If we get $3m of EK retention but then buy out Granlund for $2m, there is just a $1m difference between just trading EK for Granlund.

11m on Petry and Granlund probably makes it harder.

Since options A (get Karlsson for 11m while spending significant assets) and B (have Petry and Granlund) here both kinda stink, I'd like to see option C

C - Get Karlsson with retention for Petry and other cool(ish) shit, hope you somehow bullshit it out with Granlund

That might be a low odds play, but it's got a high enough payout if it hits. The other two have lower payouts for my money and probably not low enough.

I'd accept getting Karlsson with no retention for Petry and Granlund if the add was, I dunno, Ty Smith, because at least you've then got the assets to pursue some aggressively cheap players if needed. But to be worth big assets, Karlsson needs to come with big retention.

And if San Jose don't want to do that, here's hoping that there's a plan B out there.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

I agree with you on french toast but disagree heavily on your point about pancakes.

The difference between good and mediocre pancakes is massive. A good pancake is nice and light and a little bit flaky/crispy. A bad one is too thick and like eating a hockey puck.

I'm not as picky about waffles. I mean I still enjoy a good eggo waffle lol. But a really well done waffle at a nice breakfast place is of course far superior.

I will defer to your pancakes perspective. My experience is biased by my mom's insistence of "Bisquick" as the key ingredient. And I confess, Eggos were a critical part of my 3am high/drunk consumption/pre-passout program back in the day and I was certain they were delicious.

 

[ChaosAgent]

11m on Petry and Granlund probably makes it harder.

Since options A (get Karlsson for 11m while spending significant assets) and B (have Petry and Granlund) here both kinda stink, I'd like to see option C

C - Get Karlsson with retention for Petry and other cool(ish) shit, hope you somehow bullshit it out with Granlund

That might be a low odds play, but it's got a high enough payout if it hits. The other two have lower payouts for my money and probably not low enough.

I'd accept getting Karlsson with no retention for Petry and Granlund if the add was, I dunno, Ty Smith, because at least you've then got the assets to pursue some aggressively cheap players if needed. But to be worth big assets, Karlsson needs to come with big retention.

And if San Jose don't want to do that, here's hoping that there's a plan B out there.

Karlsson's value is very hard to peg. Terrible contract but awesome player. Surefire hall of famer in the end of his prime. I don't think San Jose is prepared to both retain and accept dogshart as the return for him. Our 2024 1st and Ty Smith is dogshart. They will sooner just roll the dice with Karlsson and buy him out down the line if needed.

This is not just looking at trade values in a vacuum but considering the emotions and org structure involved. There is no mandate from SJS ownership, the fanbase or Karlsson himself to get him out of there now.

 

[Ulf5]

I love that you can get creative with pancakes, even with French toast…but a waffle is, like, pretty much a waffle…they’re so boring…I don’t know how anyone can get excited about them…it’s like getting excited about Mike Sullivan hockey…

Are you nuts lol? Them nooks and crannies are lil flavor bomb vessels. So many possibilities. Pancakes are the worst.

 

[Peat]

Karlsson's value is very hard to peg. Terrible contract but awesome player. Surefire hall of famer in the end of his prime. I don't think San Jose is prepared to both retain and accept dogshart as the return for him. Our 2024 1st and Ty Smith is dogshart. They will sooner just roll the dice with Karlsson and buy him out down the line if needed.

This is not just looking at trade values in a vacuum but considering the emotions and org structure involved. There is no mandate from SJS ownership, the fanbase or Karlsson himself to get him out of there now.

Right, and I'm willing to give a bunch more than that if the retention is there.

But if the retention isn't there I'm not willing to give more than a token plus to the exchange of salary.




Also crepes (or British pancakes) > American pancakes. Like you can do amazing things with American pancakes, but so often it's just a thick wall of dry stodge. While the crepe is just a delightful addition of buttery fatty goodness to its payload. I guess this backs up @Pancakes point that quality matters, and I am rarely in the presence of quality American pancakes.

I also think both waffles and pancakes are better off for putting things inside the batter. Make those bad boys pop.

 

[Pancakes]

I will defer to your pancakes perspective. My experience is biased by my mom's insistence of "Bisquick" as the key ingredient. And I confess, Eggos were a critical part of my 3am high/drunk consumption/pre-passout program back in the day and I was certain they were delicious.

My mom makes a good pancake. I love going out to eat at a good breakfast place as well though. Going out to a really nice breakfast place and just pigging out and then having a nice coffee as well...*chefs kiss*.

Also crepes (or British pancakes) > American pancakes. Like you can do amazing things with American pancakes, but so often it's just a thick wall of dry stodge. While the crepe is just a delightful addition of buttery fatty goodness to its payload. I guess this backs up @Pancakes point that quality matters, and I am rarely in the presence of quality American pancakes.

I also think both waffles and pancakes are better off for putting things inside the batter. Make those bad boys pop.

There are some great breakfast places in the US, but sometimes you gotta dig to find them.

I think when people think of eating out they commonly think of going to a great lunch or dinner restaurant, but man let me tell you there are some great breakfast places out there and they can really hit the spot for me.

 

[Peat]

There are some great breakfast places in the US, but sometimes you gotta dig to find them.

I think when people think of eating out they commonly think of going to a great lunch or dinner restaurant, but man let me tell you there are some great breakfast places out there and they can really hit the spot for me.

I've never been a go out for breakfast type of person for all sorts of reasons, starting with my desire to just consume a ton of meat in these situations (which most restaurant breakfasts don't cater to) and finishing with a belief that civilisation starts with not getting up past the crack of noon if it can be helped.

But I can deffo see the appeal. And I've deffo had some pancakes that really hit the spot.

 

[Pancakes]

I've never been a go out for breakfast type of person for all sorts of reasons, starting with my desire to just consume a ton of meat in these situations (which most restaurant breakfasts don't cater to) and finishing with a belief that civilisation starts with not getting up past the crack of noon if it can be helped.

But I can deffo see the appeal. And I've deffo had some pancakes that really hit the spot.

I'm a night owl too and I generally don't like getting up early but I'll make time on occasion for a great breakfast spot

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Right, and I'm willing to give a bunch more than that if the retention is there.

But if the retention isn't there I'm not willing to give more than a token plus to the exchange of salary.




Also crepes (or British pancakes) > American pancakes. Like you can do amazing things with American pancakes, but so often it's just a thick wall of dry stodge. While the crepe is just a delightful addition of buttery fatty goodness to its payload. I guess this backs up @Pancakes point that quality matters, and I am rarely in the presence of quality American pancakes.

I also think both waffles and pancakes are better off for putting things inside the batter. Make those bad boys pop.

What are these words? Crêpes/British pancakes? Are they different from the delightful French versions? A well-prepared crêpe with a proper filling is beyond awesome, but I doubt it is fair pitting pancakes/waffles/French Toast vis-a-vis crêpes. Much like an Egg McMuffin versus a proper Eggs Benedict? ;-)

 

[Peat]

What are these words? Crêpes/British pancakes? Are they different from the delightful French versions? A well-prepared crêpe with a proper filling is beyond awesome, but I doubt it is fair pitting pancakes/waffles/French Toast vis-a-vis crêpes. Much like an Egg McMuffin versus a proper Eggs Benedict? ;-)

What we call a pancake in the UK is far closer to what you would call a crepe than what you would call a pancake, hence me making the comparison.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I was doing MBA night classes that night, but the 2016 Pens were a superior team. Our best team of this era.
Yeah the cascading delay of game 5-on-3s were heartbreaking/annoying/comical but as long as we didn't go down I wasn't worried about winning. Or winning the Game 7.
Tampa are the ones that actually had us on the ropes in 2016.

I really wasn't worried about Tampa, they were up 3-2 at one point but the Pens completely dominated them

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean if this team is as close as some posters claim they should be in it at the deadline. At that point there will be many more options and we can use our assets then. Also, we will know what the team actually needs. I also think if Yager, Pickering or even Poulin pops they could appreciate as trade pieces.

Dubas will not trade the 2025 1st. The offer is something like Petry, DeSmith, Ty Smith, 2024 1st, 3rd for EK at $3M retention. Now we are in the waiting game.

They're not close. Anybody claiming they are simply because Sid and Geno are still playing at a respectable rate are having trouble coming to grips with reality.

But I agree. The return for Karlsson, if he ends up here, probably isn't gonna be a huge haul. There are two teams in the running and one isn't that interested. I don't think Petry wants to go to SJ so he'll be moved to another team, imo, but yeah. That's pretty much the players going out I expect, with maybe Granlund also being bought out with the second window to give Dubas more room to work with for a mid-season trade if he wants, or extra room next summer to do something. If Petry can't find a home, I don't think Karlsson gets done. No justification for having a guy like Petry making as much as he does to toil around on the bottom pairing for like 10-12 minutes a night.