Salary Cap: Pens Off Season Thread: Pre Free Agency Shenanigans!

[Empoleon8771]

You still feel this way if they're able to deal away Granlund with minimal money coming back?

No, that's with me even assuming they can get out of Granlund's deal.

If you get out of Granlund's deal, you have $22 million after the RFAs sign with needing a 2nd line LW, an entire 3rd line and a starting goalie. That's also with POJ playing on the 2nd pair. Acquiring Miller leaves them with way too little money to address the 3rd line and starting goalie position.

The Penguins didn't miss the playoffs due to their top-6 last year, so why are you spending assets and a massive amount of cap space on acquiring Miller? They need to fix their goaltending and depth, and paying a huge price for Miller prevents them from doing that.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm pretty keenly interested in what happens with Granlund. Lots of places were speculating about a potential buyout. Now he's on the trade block. There are reports of the Leafs/Dubas eyeing him for a couple seasons before he ended up here, so there's a non-zero chance he's kept and they like the guy and hope he bounces back--which I think is shitty, but I'm just some dipshit on a message board.

I think if I had to wager, he's kept and they just hope he bounces back (while Sullivan gives him the worst possible usage).

 

[Peat]

On Miller, the situation is the same now that it was when he was talked about at the deadline: adding another $8 million player is going to ruin their ability to address all of the holes on the roster.

I especially hate the idea of adding another top-6 guy making that kind of money. They need to replace Zucker, but the bottom-6 and goaltending is way more important to address than the 2nd line LW spot.

I mostly agree with one caveat. If that 8m player can revitalise the power play and add consistency to it, that's worth the money big time.

Doubly so if he's the sort of talent that can lift the unit he's on to the point it's very easy to stick a guy like Alex Nylander on it and put Rust or Rakell on L3, which is an instant boost to them.

A guy who can do both those things is a really big deal to me.

I dunno that JT Miller is that guy. After watching some Canucks highlights, it feels like a lot of his PP assists were piss easy pass to Horvat in the slot and celebrate after things. Could be coincidence but a couple of the passes I saw to the top of the umbrella were lucky to get through. He can really carry the puck and fight hard on the boards which I like, but... I dunno.

But if he is and Vancouver will do a reasonable trade, do it. Trade Guentzel or Rakell to make the cap work if needed.

Like I said yesterday, if the Penguins need to add a guy on par with Toews or Slavin to play with Letang or Petry in the top-4, why the hell are they paying Letang and Petry over $6 million a year?

You only need a reliable DFD to pair with both of them, someone in that Pettersson mold. If that isn't sufficient, you're making a mistake by paying Petry and Letang what you're paying them.

And as I said, 6m a year is not big money for a dman. It's not 1D money. If we're going with the money, why are we expecting a high end #2 and a middle of the road 3D to be able to act as a 1st pairing?


Empo, do you think the core of this team is good enough as is? That Sid, Geno, and Tanger have all the guys on ice with them they need to be successes considering their current talent levels?

 

[Empoleon8771]

And as I said, 6m a year is not big money for a dman. It's not 1D money. If we're going with the money, why are we expecting a high end #2 and a middle of the road 3D to be able to act as a 1st pairing?

Petry is 34th and Letang is 41st among salaries for defensemen. I really think that kind of investment shouldn't need as good of a player as Toews or Slavin to be successful. Especially at the cost of Guentzel and especially when those guys are going to be making $7+ million starting next year.

Empo, do you think the core of this team is good enough as is? That Sid, Geno, and Tanger have all the guys on ice with them they need to be successes considering their current talent levels?

Yes. The core isn't the problem on this team. Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Guentzel is just as talented of a core as pretty much any other contender.

They need to surround the core with a good team, they don't need to add to the core.

 

[Gurglesons]

If we can get JT Miller for relatively low value and dump Granlund I’d do it.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I mean it’s a fair point, assuming you think Sullivan will play him on PP1 lol…he also has the advantage of playing center…the other thing with him, however, is the acquisition cost…I’m not paying two first…even if it was only the #14 this season, how much worse off would we be let’s say signing Barbashev, for example, during FA and keeping our first? I tend to rather sign a 27/28 year old in FA

I do think he'd get the spot, because he plays LD in Vancouver. Reirden/Sully would be fine with decreasing Letang's minutes at this age. There were already signs last year when they tried Petry over him.
We may have to rely on Letang on the PK a lot as things stand.

I think Barbashev is gonna cost like 6M+. Another overpaid SC champion. He averages 36 points per 82 games in his career.

He can't PP. He can't defend any better than Miller historically.
His shot % is outstanding, but his low shot volume for his career very much negates that. He's passed 14 goals once in a season.

If we're strictly looking at his Vegas stay, thinking that will carry over, then sure, that'd be great. But I don't trust him to do that.
Before Vegas he had 9 points in 50 playoff games.
I do, however, trust Miller to keep this up somewhat for the next 2 years. He's durable. He could very much score 80 points here. He can fill in for Sid and Geno when they get hurt. He'd be a linedriver, compensating for regression from our stars.

Saving 2 mil and the #14 pick doesn't seem worth it. The only reason I'd save the #14 pick for something else is if it's gonna go towards a star goalie.

 

[Andy99]

Like I said yesterday, if the Penguins need to add a guy on par with Toews or Slavin to play with Letang or Petry in the top-4, why the hell are they paying Letang and Petry over $6 million a year?

You only need a reliable DFD to pair with both of them, someone in that Pettersson mold. If that isn't sufficient, you're making a mistake by paying Petry and Letang what you're paying them.

They are making a mistake paying two 36 year old D men lol…I think they should look to trade Petry as well

 

[Gurglesons]

Barbashev was a huge part of the Sundqvist and Steen line in the Blues run.

 

[pistolpete11]

Trading Guentzel for a defenseman, even one as good as Toews, would require a lot of wheeling and dealing to get to a roster I'd like. They're already a top 6 LW short in a market with very few good top 6 LW options.

 

[Andy99]

Trading Guentzel for a defenseman, even one as good as Toews, would require a lot of wheeling and dealing to get to a roster I'd like. They're already a top 6 LW short in a market with very few good top 6 LW options.

Yeah if you do it, you have to have another trade lined up

 

[Peat]

Petry is 34th and Letang is 41st among salaries for defensemen. I really think that kind of investment shouldn't need as good of a player as Toews or Slavin to be successful. Especially at the cost of Guentzel and especially when those guys are going to be making $7+ million starting next year.

In a league with 32 teams, seems to me the 33rd to 64th paid dmen are getting #2 salaries.

But putting that aside... I don't get watching them and thinking they can carry the load to an elite standard with just a top 4 guy. I know they had difficulties we're hoping won't exist next year in terms of health and Dumo, but I don't think they looked outstanding. Statistically, they didn't outstanding on ice results, even when freed from Dumo. They weren't bad but they can clearly be better.

Besides, I don't get the word need. Does Sid need Jake? Does Geno need two 5m wingers? Are they not at least equal, if not outright better than Letang? If we're willing to go the whole hog on getting them the support they want, why not do it with Letang? I know we can't afford everything but this team isn't built on need, it's built around getting the most out of stars. A better LD than Pettersson would get the best out of Letang.

It's not like guys like Toews or Slavin (lol at the idea he's available) can't contribute as much as Guentzel to a team in a vaccuum. I don't get calling one a luxury and the other a need.

Yes. The core isn't the problem on this team. Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Guentzel is just as talented of a core as pretty much any other contender.

They need to surround the core with a good team, they don't need to add to the core.

Wellp. Fair enough. Gonna disagree massively. I don't think the core is the biggest problem, but I absolutely don't think it's as talented as any other contender anymore. If a chance came up to strengthen it at a fair price, that would 100% be my priority.

 

[Andy99]

Apparently the Flyers turned down either the 25th or 29th pick in this draft (St Louis) and a future second round pick for Laughton…lol…if that’s the price for trade of third line players, we absolutely should have Jake on the block…

 

[Peat]

Apparently the Flyers turned down either the 25th or 29th pick in this draft (St Louis) and a future second round pick for Laughton…lol…if that’s the price for trade of third line players, we absolutely should have Jake on the block…

That's the price for reasonably paid physical third liners with a good amount of term.

I feel like if we put Jake out to market, we'd be very disappointed in the return offers.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think we can just kinda wipe away a guy's power play ability when talking about acquiring him, tbh. The hierarchy is set and nobody's usurping Sid, Geno, Letang, Jake and probably Rust as top PP unit guys.

 

[Pancakes]

That's the price for reasonably paid physical third liners with a good amount of term.

I feel like if we put Jake out to market, we'd be very disappointed in the return offers.

Yeah I don't know why anyone fantasizes about the return in a Jake trade when it's always some garbage return. Look at similar trades in the past. Look at what Erik Karlsson brought back.

I think we can just kinda wipe away a guy's power play ability when talking about acquiring him, tbh. The hierarchy is set and nobody's usurping Sid, Geno, Letang, Jake and probably Rust as top PP unit guys.

Rust was knocked off the top pp just this year? That's Rakell's spot to lose now.

There is actually a spot open on pp1 because I don't think Sully would hesitate to take Rakell off if we brought in someone else he thought might work there. The other four are set in stone though.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

They already yoinked Rust last year.

I have a lot to say about Sullivan... none of it super great these days... but I think there is a potentially open spot on the top unit. But yeah I mean... you aren't yanking Sid and Malkin (rightfully so) and Jake and Letang seem pretty set too which... I've always been much less enthusiastic about.

 

[Gurglesons]

Rust should be on the top Powerplay over Jake tbh.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yes. The core isn't the problem on this team. Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Guentzel is just as talented of a core as pretty much any other contender.

They need to surround the core with a good team, they don't need to add to the core.

I'd say this needs a bit of a qualifier. Crosby and Malkin don't need help NOW, but in a year or so they definitely will.

I think you saw shades of Letang's decline last year. He's gonna need help too.

I'm not saying this all needs addressed this off season, but you have to keep that in mind

Rust should be on the top Powerplay over Jake tbh.

It's funny, I was literally going to pose the question to this group: can you tell me what Jake and Rust's role is on the PP? I'd love to hear what Sully's response to this is

 

[Peat]

Yeah I don't know why anyone fantasizes about the return in a Jake trade when it's always some garbage return. Look at similar trades in the past. Look at what Erik Karlsson brought back.

That one ended up fantastic for Ottawa so I'm not sure it's the best example But yeah, in general, futures returns disappoint, particularly for guys who are old and about to get paid a ton.

But Karlsson is a fantastic example of cutting your losses. Selling on him was 100% the best move for Ottawa.

I'd also add that if people want a really good Jake trade, they need to target player for player. Problem is I can't think of anywhere that's jonesing for a guy like him who has a player on around his level they don't want. I'd love to do something like Guentzel for Devon Toews but Colorado have to fill that 2C slot first and foremost. Calgary can't bring in guys on expiring contracts. Etc.etc.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Don't know if he's been mentioned much but apparently Backlund might be available. He'd be a fantastic 3C option for us.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd say this needs a bit of a qualifier. Crosby and Malkin don't need help NOW, but in a year or so they definitely will.

I think you saw shades of Letang's decline last year. He's gonna need help too.

I'm not saying this all needs addressed this off season, but you have to keep that in mind



It's funny, I was literally going to pose the question to this group: can you tell me what Jake and Rust's role is on the PP? I'd love to hear what Sully's response to this is

I mean Rust was good for 8-9 goals in 50 game samples when he was there.

Jake outside of last year doesn’t really do much scoring in the PP.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I mean Rust was good for 8-9 goals in 50 game samples when he was there.

Jake outside of last year doesn’t really do much scoring in the PP.

Yea and then Rust was an absolute detriment to the unit outside of that window. It's comical that a unit with 3 generational players struggle THIS much on the PP. A stage of the game that doesn't require a ton of skating.

If you're in charge of this unit and it doesn't crack the top 10, you should be immediately fired

 

[Andy99]

I mean I wouldnt mind Korpisalo…I’d like a better 1B though than CDS to pair with him…

Goalie Matchmaker: Picking destinations for 2023’s Top UFAs

For teams who won’t trade for a big-ticket stopper, there are plenty of interesting bargains and buy-lows in the UFA...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

 

[Gurglesons]

Yea and then Rust was an absolute detriment to the unit outside of that window. It's comical that a unit with 3 generational players struggle THIS much on the PP. A stage of the game that doesn't require a ton of skating.

If you're in charge of this unit and it doesn't crack the top 10, you should be immediately fired

Rust would be fine if used on the left side.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I hate the idea because he's a locker room cancer, but if you want to address the powerplay issues, you should probably be hoping for a Blake Wheeler buyout and have Wheeler displace Guentzel on the top PP unit.

I think the big thing that PP is missing is a legitimate net front guy. Guentzel isn't that, Guentzel is a sniper in the bumper spot.