Post-Game Talk: Pens lose to the worst team in the league

MetalheadPenguinsFan

Registered User
Sep 17, 2009
66,993
20,868
Canada
You can doubt whatever you want, your opinion on that particular matter is of no consequence. It matters what his opinion is on the matter. And we know based on everything we've seen and heard from Sid, he's a very competitive person.

Well if he still hates to lose so much then why haven’t we done any significant damage in 6 years??

Except for flame-out in round 1 and now shitting the playoff hopes bed completely??

Our stars got complacent. It happens after multiple championships sometimes.

Whatever.
 

DesertedPenguin

Registered User
Mar 11, 2007
7,489
8,438
If we miss the playoffs I wonder how quick the team's post season interviews (internally) change in terms of the tune on Sullivan.
That's a good question and makes me wish we had better insight into the organization. Even national reporters don't have much these days.

From all we've heard, Sullivan is well-respected by most of the players. Multiple reporters have said Crosby, Malkin and Letang trust him and like playing for him. I'm sure Ian Cole would have different perspective, though Cole has turned out to be a jackass, so who knows. And this is all with the caveat that NHL players rarely throw coaches under the bus because of how much movement there is in the league and the possibility paths will cross again.

I'll say again all options should be on the table, but I do still think highly of Sullivan and I'd be very curious to see what a competent front office that is willing to challenge him would do for his coaching. I've made it clear that I want Hextall out the second the season is over. But even Rutherford stopped challenging Sullivan in his final years. I also think a different dynamic on the bench would help. Besides their schematic faults, Reirden and Vellucci are timid. I think Sullivan would benefit from someone with stones like Tocchet had.

I want to believe FSG will make some changes, just like they did early on in Boston and Liverpool. But they've been more hands off with both of late, so who knows.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
96,537
78,452
Joshua Tree, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Letang has been an adventure in his end of the ice this season come on now. And sid the last what three weeks has been very hit or miss. Mostly miss. Beyond that the goal tending has been precarious, and the bottom six is arguably one of the worst in the league. Other than that however everything's hunky-dory.

Bottom six doesn’t matter.

Saying Sid is done is stupid.

Letang can have his minutes adjusted by a smart coach.
 

DesertedPenguin

Registered User
Mar 11, 2007
7,489
8,438
Why is worse options the only option? So because having Torts or Sutter might make it just as boring, then I should be okay with Sullivan? That's such an asinine defense for keeping Sullivan around.

"Could be worse" reminds me of everyone who stays in bad relationships because maybe instead of dating a chronic cheater, you might end up with someone who abuses you instead, so stay with the cheater because it could be worse!

How about a novel concept like a coach who isn't a retread from the mid 2000's and will actually try something creative with the way the team plays?
Give me some names, then. Who out there is going to command respect out of what likely will be a veteran team - or at least the veteran core - either through their presence or knowledge of the game?

Let's talk names. Because at this point, the Pens can't do the old trick of promoting from WBS. The answer surely isn't there. And the only other names ever brought up on here are guys like Trotz or Torts.

So, who is out there who is primed and ready to go?
 

Ryder71

Registered User
Nov 24, 2017
24,543
11,694
Well if he still hates to lose so much then why haven’t we done any significant damage in 6 years??

Except for flame-out in round 1 and now shitting the playoff hopes bed completely??

Our stars got complacent. It happens after multiple championships sometimes.

Whatever.
Here's the thing, up until this season they at least got into the postseason. So I feel very confident saying no one on that team and no one in this forum thought that they would lose five successive playoff series. I'm sure that was a surprise to the players and management as well as the fans. But here we are. I think the finality of this era coming to an end is hitting the players. I personally thought the writing on the wall was before last year's trade deadline, before that however there were blatant gaffes with our defense, or goaltending and occasionally with our star players. But if you asked me after the capitals series of 2018 if we would lose five consecutive playoff series, I would have probably said no. But now that we're on the outside looking in, it's rather apparent that we are done.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
96,537
78,452
Joshua Tree, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Give me some names, then. Who out there is going to command respect out of what likely will be a veteran team - or at least the veteran core - either through their presence or knowledge of the game?

Let's talk names. Because at this point, the Pens can't do the old trick of promoting from WBS. [The answer surely isn't there. And the only other names ever brought up on here are guys like Trotz or Torts.

So, who is out there who is primed and ready to go?

I hate this mind set.

Did you drop the names of Cooper, Bednar, Berube, and Sullivan when Bylsma was fired?
 

CascadiaPenguin

Registered User
Sponsor
Jul 5, 2017
4,263
3,927
The Salish Sea
Yes I want Sutter over Sullivan.
And I'll even take Torts, even though I am no fan and he would wear out his welcome fast. But he would have done better with this team than Sully. He would have benched vets who played like shit without a second thought. Rust may have spent time in the press box. We would have had better results. Our big three won this year despite Sully, not because of him. Time to go.
 

Ryder71

Registered User
Nov 24, 2017
24,543
11,694
Bottom six doesn’t matter.

Saying Sid is done is stupid.

Letang can have his minutes adjusted by a smart coach.
Bottom six does matter, saying it doesn't is stupid! And I never said Sid was done, but over the years his play will diminish. And it will undoubtedly be a law of diminishing returns. As it would be for any player even a superstar. Letang had a pretty bad season. At least in the defense of end of the ice. And he's only likely to get worse, I doubt he'll improve at age 36 or 37.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
96,537
78,452
Joshua Tree, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Why? He hasn't shown he can win anything of significance in the new NHL. It's pretty clear the Flames were carried by Tkachuk and Gaudreau last year.

Must not watch the Flames. That team is one of the tightest in the league.

Ask our mod who watches them. They got absolutely decimated by goaltending this year.

Sutter would do wonders for this team and if we keep Hextall and fire Sullivan, would not shock me at all.

Not to mention he loves holding players accountable.

Bottom six does matter, saying it doesn't is stupid! And I never said Sid was done, but over the years his play will diminish. And it will undoubtedly be a law of diminishing returns. As it would be for any player even a superstar. Letang had a pretty bad season. At least in the defense of end of the ice. And he's only likely to get worse, I doubt he'll improve at age 36 or 37.

Why are we talking "over the years"?

We are talking about the next two seasons.

Crosby this year was a top 10 5v5 player. Malkin was top 30.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CascadiaPenguin

CascadiaPenguin

Registered User
Sponsor
Jul 5, 2017
4,263
3,927
The Salish Sea
Give me some names, then. Who out there is going to command respect out of what likely will be a veteran team - or at least the veteran core - either through their presence or knowledge of the game?

Let's talk names. Because at this point, the Pens can't do the old trick of promoting from WBS. The answer surely isn't there. And the only other names ever brought up on here are guys like Trotz or Torts.

So, who is out there who is primed and ready to go?
Bruce Boudreau. In a heartbeat. Not a long term solution, but there's nothing long term about this team, the GM, or the soon to be diminished STH base.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gurglesons

Ryder71

Registered User
Nov 24, 2017
24,543
11,694
Must not watch the Flames. That team is one of the tightest in the league.

Ask our mod who watches them. They got absolutely decimated by goaltending this year.

Sutter would do wonders for this team and if we keep Hextall and fire Sullivan, would not shock me at all.

Not to mention he loves holding players accountable.



Why are we talking "over the years"?

We are talking about the next two seasons.
yes, and they will undoubtedly be worse. I can't believe you want to subject yourself to that, you must sincerely be a glutton for punishment. And I feel bad for those players being on a sinking ship. If you were on the Titanic you'd probably salute the musicians and go down with this ship wouldn't you?
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
96,537
78,452
Joshua Tree, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
yes, and they will undoubtedly be worse. I can't believe you want to subject yourself to that, you must sincerely be a glutton for punishment. And I feel bad for those players being on a sinking ship. If you were on the Titanic you'd probably salute the musicians and go down with this ship wouldn't you?

We will see. Joe Sakic is the closest comparable to Sid I can think of and he put up a 100 point season at 40.
 

cygnus47

Registered User
Sep 14, 2013
7,612
2,719
Man, looking back on how much of Sid and Geno's careers have been wasted by over the hill coaches and GMs throwing away good players instead of firing the coach is just such a shame.

If not for Shero's love fest of Bylsma and Sully overstaying his welcome by 3 or 4 years we might have another 2 or 3 cups.
 

Ryder71

Registered User
Nov 24, 2017
24,543
11,694
We will see. Joe Sakic is the closest comparable to Sid I can think of and he put up a 100 point season at 40.
Hopefully like Sakic he plays in Colorado in his remaining years, that would be awesome!!!!!!! They get an all-time great and we get a few quality assets for our trouble. Seems like a win-win to me. And if he's playing with Nate McKinnon he may very well get to 100 points. But he sure is hell aint getting it here.
 

Smasher

Registered User
Jan 25, 2012
890
650
Finland
nemecic.bandcamp.com
I am at peace. There will be changes, a smart GM can at least get the team in the playoffs and I want to see as many playoff games from this core as possible. They won't pull a Boston unless Sullivan is fired, but maaybe they can still win a series before this era ends.
 

CascadiaPenguin

Registered User
Sponsor
Jul 5, 2017
4,263
3,927
The Salish Sea
Man, looking back on how much of Sid and Geno's careers have been wasted by over the hill coaches and GMs throwing away good players instead of firing the coach is just such a shame.

If not for Shero's love fest of Bylsma and Sully overstaying his welcome by 3 or 4 years we might have another 2 or 3 cups.
We got three cups with this core. One more than Mario. No one promises you tomorrow. Things could have gone better, but they also could have gone way worse. Just about every team fanbase would trade their last 30 years with ours in a heartbeat. All franchises make chokingly bad decisions. We are not exempt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: canadianguy77

DesertedPenguin

Registered User
Mar 11, 2007
7,489
8,438
I hate this mind set.

Did you drop the names of Cooper, Bednar, Berube, and Sullivan when Bylsma was fired?
Cooper was already Tampa's coach. Bednar was an assistant coach in the AHL. And I have never had an interest in Berube.

I recall being interested in Hynes, Desjardins and Bill Peters. Peters turned out to be an awful human, Desjardins was like Johnston and in over his head in the NHL, and Hynes is an average coach.

But I wasn't interested in any of the retreads being mentioned at the time, including John Stevens and Peter Laviolette.

Bruce Boudreau. In a heartbeat. Not a long term solution, but there's nothing long term about this team, the GM, or the soon to be diminished STH base.
Boudreau hasn't won a playoff series since the 2014-15 season and has made it to the conference finals once in his career.
 

Luigi Lemieux

Registered User
Sep 26, 2003
22,209
10,845
Man, looking back on how much of Sid and Geno's careers have been wasted by over the hill coaches and GMs throwing away good players instead of firing the coach is just such a shame.

If not for Shero's love fest of Bylsma and Sully overstaying his welcome by 3 or 4 years we might have another 2 or 3 cups.
If absolutely everything went right then yea maybe we get 4-5 cups. But we got 3, which is still great and a huge accomplishment. Look at McDavid/Draisaitl, year 8 and still haven't won a game past the second round. Bad management is a killer for a team, no matter how good the players. All things considered it was a wildly successful era.
 

canadianguy77

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Apr 20, 2006
21,372
11,292
Give me some names, then. Who out there is going to command respect out of what likely will be a veteran team - or at least the veteran core - either through their presence or knowledge of the game?

Let's talk names. Because at this point, the Pens can't do the old trick of promoting from WBS. The answer surely isn't there. And the only other names ever brought up on here are guys like Trotz or Torts.

So, who is out there who is primed and ready to go?
I’d probably go with a college guy. Pecknold has earned a shot in the NHL, even before winning the national championship.

I just want someone who has a fresh set of eyes. I’m tired of guys getting minutes based on their contract numbers.
 

Malkinstheman

Registered User
Aug 12, 2012
10,254
9,961
I hope ownership goes scorch Earth. Hextall, Sullivan out. Revamp the entire roster. Use the 1st, Pickering etc to get as much help as possible. Give the core one last hurrah and then blow it up in a few years.
 

Giskard

Registered User
Jun 20, 2008
1,879
643
Alps
The only winner here is The Washington Hockey Team that made us believe in this team one last time, they must be laughing their ass off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andy99

DesertedPenguin

Registered User
Mar 11, 2007
7,489
8,438
And I'll put my money where my mouth is...

If they fire Sullivan, I want someone who can walk into that locker room with fresh ideas and some confidence.

Jeff Halpern, former NHL player and current Tampa assistant. Background in player development and almost 1000 NHL games to his resume.

Spencer Carberry paid his dues as head coach in ECHL and OHL, moved up to AHL and is now in charge of Toronto's power play, so he understands how to get talented players to actually produce on the man advantage.

Andrew Brunette. Florida wasn't built to win in the playoffs last year and Brunette got the fuzzy end of the stick for their flameout. Lengthy career as a player, worked as an assistant and in the front office. Only issue is his DUI arrest earlier this year.

Those are the types I am interested in, not retreads. If you're going to replace a two-time Cup winner, do it with someone who has a fresh perspective.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
96,537
78,452
Joshua Tree, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Cooper was already Tampa's coach. Bednar was an assistant coach in the AHL. And I have never had an interest in Berube.

I recall being interested in Hynes, Desjardins and Bill Peters. Peters turned out to be an awful human, Desjardins was like Johnston and in over his head in the NHL, and Hynes is an average coach.

But I wasn't interested in any of the retreads being mentioned at the time, including John Stevens and Peter Laviolette.


Boudreau hasn't won a playoff series since the 2014-15 season and has made it to the conference finals once in his career.

Point still stands.

Nobody wanted the majority of the coaches that won the majority of the cups since Bylsma was fired.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Buddy Bizarre

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad