Post-Game Talk: Pens lose to the worst team in the league

[Ryder71]

I wish we'd let Rust get away last summer.

Good man, well before last year's trade deadline I said we should have traded him. We should have started trading off pieces last season before the deadline. We could have had plenty more assets if we took that path.

 

[Ryder71]

Feel like Rust can still be an asset for us another a different coach.

Why don't you just give up! Why do you still hold out even a modicum of Hope after what you've witnessed over the last few weeks?

 

[Gurglesons]

Why don't you just give up! Why do you still hold out even a modicum of Hope after what you've witnessed over the last few weeks?

Because no Brian Dumoulin and no Tristan Jarry would go a long way to correcting the issues we had this year.

 

[Ryder71]

Because no Brian Dumoulin and no Tristan Jarry would go a long way to correcting the issues we had this year.

But the core will be a year older, and that would likely be the law of diminishing returns. There's no guarantee we would even get a quality goaltender for next season.

 

[Gurglesons]

But the core will be a year older, and that would likely be the law of diminishing returns. There's no guarantee we would even get a quality goaltender for next season.

No guarantee Boston would do what they did this year.

The NHL is a funny league and the skeleton of a decent team is still here.

If Sullivan is retained, I'll join you.

 

[Pancakes]

Gurglesons is right. The Penguins are not going to rebuild while Crosby and Malkin are here. Get that idea out of your heads, because it's not happening.

They will retool and try to win again next year. That retool may take a number of forms. It may involve replacing Hextall with a new GM who tries a different path. It may involve replacing Hextall *and* Sullivan (though I think this unlikely). Or they may not fire either.

Whatever the case, I can promise you that as long as Crosby and Malkin are here and still producing at the level they are, there will be no rebuild. It will be impossible with them playing this well, and Pens management won't go that way as long as they are playing like that.

If they decline enough that we're a true tank team, then it will happen. Not til then.

 

[Gurglesons]

Gurglesons is right. The Penguins are not going to rebuild while Crosby and Malkin are here. Get that idea out of your heads, because it's not happening.

They will retool and try to win again next year. That retool may take a number of forms. It may involve replacing Hextall with a new GM who tries a different path. It may involve replacing Hextall *and* Sullivan (though I think this unlikely). Or they may not fire either.

Whatever the case, I can promise you that as long as Crosby and Malkin are here and still producing at the level they are, there will be no rebuild. It will be impossible with them playing this well, and Pens management won't go that way as long as they are playing like that.

If they decline enough that we're a true tank team, then it will happen. Not til then.

And it will happen soon enough. Might as well burn off all assets so we can truly crash and burn.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I really want to enjoy the last years of Sid and Geno's careers, but I just can't with Sullivan as coach. He sucks the enjoyment out of watching this team.

So it's like on one hand I tune in to watch their twilight years because it'll end at some point, but on the other hand it's not a fun experience because of the smug jackass behind the bench doing things that make following this team simply excruciating.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Crosby slowed down decidedly over the last dozen games. Doubt we'll want to see him slowly but surely succumb to father time on a crap team..

Anyone with a brain would rather see him age out gracefully here than in f***ing Philly or Washington or Montreal or…anywhere else really.

If Mario could do it, there’s no reason why Sid can’t.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Gurglesons is right. The Penguins are not going to rebuild while Crosby and Malkin are here. Get that idea out of your heads, because it's not happening.

They will retool and try to win again next year. That retool may take a number of forms. It may involve replacing Hextall with a new GM who tries a different path. It may involve replacing Hextall *and* Sullivan (though I think this unlikely). Or they may not fire either.

Whatever the case, I can promise you that as long as Crosby and Malkin are here and still producing at the level they are, there will be no rebuild. It will be impossible with them playing this well, and Pens management won't go that way as long as they are playing like that.

If they decline enough that we're a true tank team, then it will happen. Not til then.

Completely agree, and I guarantee you that Sid, Geno and Letang were promised the organization would try to contend as long as they were part of the franchise. Along with NMCs and NTCs and the final dollar amounts, there was absolutely a conversation about not rebuilding in order to secure Malkin and Letang.

 

[BobCole]

I reject this whole concept of "rebuilding," not just when it comes to the Pens, but as a general concept in the NHL.

It's funny, I've never particularly liked Brian Burke, but I couldn't help but chuckle when he was once asked during his stint in Toronto whether the Leafs had to "rebuild" like the Penguins did. He retorted, "they won a f***ing lottery - that's not a strategy."

All of that is to say that it's not easy to just say, "ok, rebuild" and have a totally transformed team in 3-6 years. It's not uncommon to watch teams toil in mediocrity for a decade+ in this league.

I loathe the day that the Pens are relegated to the "rebuilding" tier of the league. There's no guaranteed success in that whatsoever. We just got insanely lucky by drafting MAF/Geno/Sid/Staal in succession. Just as easily could have wound up with a way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way weaker haul.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying that the Pens should mortgage everything to cling on to hopes of winning when they reasonably have no chance to, I'm just saying that I don't "look forward" to rebuilding because it's not a panacea like some people think it is.

 

[Ryder71]

Anyone with a brain would rather see him age out gracefully here than in f***ing Philly or Washington or Montreal or…anywhere else really.

If Mario could do it, there’s no reason why Sid can’t.

Sure there is, because he wants to win another Stanley Cup. And he sure as hell isn't going to win one here. And anyone with a brain would realize that the show is over and this team ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Pancakes]

I reject this whole concept of "rebuilding," not just when it comes to the Pens, but as a general concept in the NHL.

It's funny, I've never particularly liked Brian Burke, but I couldn't help but chuckle when he was once asked during his stint in Toronto whether the Leafs had to "rebuild" like the Penguins did. He retorted, "they won a f***ing lottery - that's not a strategy."

All of that is to say that it's not easy to just say, "ok, rebuild" and have a totally transformed team in 3-6 years. It's not uncommon to watch teams toil in mediocrity for a decade+ in this league.

I loathe the day that the Pens are relegated to the "rebuilding" tier of the league. There's no guaranteed success in that whatsoever. We just got insanely lucky by drafting MAF/Geno/Sid/Staal in succession. Just as easily could have wound up with a way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way weaker haul.

Yeah you can easily become Buffalo or even Detroit now. Tanking is not a surefire path to success.

That's why I keep warning people to be careful what you ask for. When this team does finally enter the tank again it may be for a loooooong time unless they get insanely lucky in the draft again. I'm talking potentially a decade of being bad before they come out of it. Look at Buffalo.

 

[Gurglesons]

Completely agree, and I guarantee you that Sid, Geno and Letang were promised the organization would try to contend as long as they were part of the franchise. Along with NMCs and NTCs and the final dollar amounts, there was absolutely a conversation about not rebuilding in order to secure Malkin and Letang.

If we miss the playoffs I wonder how quick the team's post season interviews (internally) change in terms of the tune on Sullivan.

 

[Ryder71]

Yeah you can easily become Buffalo or even Detroit now. Tanking is not a surefire path to success.

That's why I keep warning people to be careful what you ask for. When this team does finally enter the tank again it may be for a loooooong time unless they get insanely lucky in the draft again. I'm talking potentially a decade of being bad before they come out of it. Look at Buffalo.

Tanking is certainly not a sure fire way of success. But backing a team like this sure as hell isn't going to win anything either. So you got to take your chances and start somewhere. Because this core and this team has no chance whatsoever. And it was on display for all of us to see this evening. And there were many disappointments throughout the season on games they should have won and they blew it time and time and time again. So while there's no guarantee we're going to get the next superstar in the draft, we do have the opportunity if we draft carefully to start building a new nucleus. Whether they are good enough no one knows. But one thing we do know is, this team ain't going anywhere. And the core is on the back side of 35 now.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Sure there is, because he wants to win another Stanley Cup. And he sure as hell isn't going to win one here. And anyone with a brain would realize that the show is over and this team ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

While he might want another Cup, I’m sure he knows deep down that he probably won’t get one.

Plus he’s won 3 already as well as literally everything else in the NHL. And just hit 1500 points.

I doubt he’s that upset.

 

[Pancakes]

Tanking is certainly not a sure fire way of success. But backing a team like this sure as hell isn't going to win anything either. So you got to take your chances and start somewhere. Because this core and this team has no chance whatsoever. And it was on display for all of us to see this evening. And there were many disappointments throughout the season on games they should have won and they blew it time and time and time again. So while there's no guarantee we're going to get the next superstar in the draft, we do have the opportunity if we draft carefully to start building a new nucleus. Whether they are good enough no one knows. But one thing we do know is, this team ain't going anywhere. And the core is on the back side of 35 now.

There's no need to rush into the tank. Let it come when it comes.

 

[Gurglesons]

Tanking is certainly not a sure fire way of success. But backing a team like this sure as hell isn't going to win anything either. So you got to take your chances and start somewhere. Because this core and this team has no chance whatsoever. And it was on display for all of us to see this evening. And there were many disappointments throughout the season on games they should have won and they blew it time and time and time again. So while there's no guarantee we're going to get the next superstar in the draft, we do have the opportunity if we draft carefully to start building a new nucleus. Whether they are good enough no one knows. But one thing we do know is, this team ain't going anywhere. And the core is on the back side of 35 now.

Why do we know this?

We've seen the team sunk by goaltending and bad coaching in two consecutive playoffs and now a regular season.

Which one of Letang, Malkin, or Sid is to blame for our playoff exits the last two seasons or this season?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I really want to enjoy the last years of Sid and Geno's careers, but I just can't with Sullivan as coach. He sucks the enjoyment out of watching this team.

So it's like on one hand I tune in to watch their twilight years because it'll end at some point, but on the other hand it's not a fun experience because of the smug jackass behind the bench doing things that make following this team simply excruciating.

Would you prefer Torts or Sutter? For all his faults, at least Sullivan recognizes he has stars and leans on them in big moments. He doesn't send Josh Archibald out for a crucial penalty shot instead of Sid or Geno.

I get that there's Sullivan fatigue and I think all options should be on the table for a team that missed the playoffs. Anything that helps retool for the final years of 87, 71 and 58 should be considered, from the front office to the coaching staff to the rest of the roster.

But the hyperbole about Sullivan is a bit much. We all know this team is going to blow chunks at some point. Find your inner peace, @Sidney the Kidney. Embrace the inevitable crash and burn and take the time to enjoy the little moments like Malkin's celebration tonight or Sid's diving back check.

 

[Ryder71]

While he might want another Cup, I’m sure he knows deep down that he probably won’t get one.

Plus he’s won 3 already as well as literally everything else in the NHL. And just hit 1500 points.

I doubt he’s that upset.

You can doubt whatever you want, your opinion on that particular matter is of no consequence. It matters what his opinion is on the matter. And we know based on everything we've seen and heard from Sid, he's a very competitive person.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Would you prefer Torts or Sutter? For all his faults, at least Sullivan recognizes he has stars and leans on them in big moments. He doesn't send Josh Archibald out for a crucial penalty shot instead of Sid or Geno.

I get that there's Sullivan fatigue and I think all options should be on the table for a team that missed the playoffs. Anything that helps retool for the final years of 87, 71 and 58 should be considered, from the front office to the coaching staff to the rest of the roster.

But the hyperbole about Sullivan is a bit much. We all know this team is going to blow chunks at some point. Find your inner peace, @Sidney the Kidney. Embrace the inevitable crash and burn and take the time to enjoy the little moments like Malkin's celebration tonight or Sid's diving back check.

Why is worse options the only option? So because having Torts or Sutter might make it just as boring, then I should be okay with Sullivan? That's such an asinine defense for keeping Sullivan around.

"Could be worse" reminds me of everyone who stays in bad relationships because maybe instead of dating a chronic cheater, you might end up with someone who abuses you instead, so stay with the cheater because it could be worse!

How about a novel concept like a coach who isn't a retread from the mid 2000's and will actually try something creative with the way the team plays?

 

[Ryder71]

Why do we know this?

We've seen the team sunk by goaltending and bad coaching in two consecutive playoffs and now a regular season.

Which one of Letang, Malkin, or Sid is to blame for our playoff exits the last two seasons or this season?

Letang has been an adventure in his end of the ice this season come on now. And sid the last what three weeks has been very hit or miss. Mostly miss. Beyond that the goal tending has been precarious, and the bottom six is arguably one of the worst in the league. Other than that however everything's hunky-dory.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Sure there is, because he wants to win another Stanley Cup. And he sure as hell isn't going to win one here. And anyone with a brain would realize that the show is over and this team ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

Sid has openly talked about admiring guys who played with one team, including his hero Yzerman.

I think it also means a lot to him to play as many seasons as possible with Letang and Malkin.

He is not going to be Joe Thornton or Jaromir Jagr, selling his services via one year contracts in search of another cup.

 

[Ryder71]

Sid has openly talked about admiring guys who played with one team, including his hero Yzerman.

I think it also means a lot to him to play as many seasons as possible with Letang and Malkin.

He is not going to be Joe Thornton or Jaromir Jagr, selling his services via one year contracts in search of another cup.

It's easy to have that position when things are going well. But when you're bottom rung team or at least closer to the bottom than the top, that could change things.

 

[Gurglesons]

Would you prefer Torts or Sutter? For all his faults, at least Sullivan recognizes he has stars and leans on them in big moments. He doesn't send Josh Archibald out for a crucial penalty shot instead of Sid or Geno.

I get that there's Sullivan fatigue and I think all options should be on the table for a team that missed the playoffs. Anything that helps retool for the final years of 87, 71 and 58 should be considered, from the front office to the coaching staff to the rest of the roster.

But the hyperbole about Sullivan is a bit much. We all know this team is going to blow chunks at some point. Find your inner peace, @Sidney the Kidney. Embrace the inevitable crash and burn and take the time to enjoy the little moments like Malkin's celebration tonight or Sid's diving back check.

Yes I want Sutter over Sullivan.