Post-Game Talk: Pens lose to the worst team in the league

[66-30-33]

Doing right by Sid would be to not let Sid get his way and do the right thing with the roster which Sullivan refused to do.

This team has done right by Sid forever. I hate that notion that this team owes jack shit to any of these wankers. This sense of owing is why Sully is still here.



Lombardi or Chiarelli honestly would not surprise me.

I mean I am not going to sit here and lie that if it was Ray Shero on second tour, I wouldn't laugh hysterically and be in tears from it. I kind of want it to happen just for the laughs.

How about a Welcome Back tour for JR?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Can't blame Mario. If Sid wanted out, he would be out

Can't blame Mario? Why? JR was years into psychotic flailing as a GM and Sullivan showed concerning tendencies against the Isles in 2019, and showed his whole ass in 2020. Mario sat by and did nothing, because he was an overrated owner.

For clarity, since I'm re-reading and realizing how I might've been misinterpreted, I mean "doing right by Sid" would've been nuking *this team's* FO and coaching staff in 2020 to give the Pens some semblance of a last shot or two. Now it's too little, too late, and the damage has been done.

At best, this team's fighting for a WC spot and getting booted in the 1st annually. Especially when they lock up Jarry this summer.

He would make an excellent #2 or #3 on a playoff team IMO, but he's not cut out to be #1 anymore at his age and after all these injuries/strokes

Off-ice stuff cratered his season. I don't even really blame Letang, but it's entirely fair to criticize his play this season. It was abysmal, and I'm sure he'd agree.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Hawks fan here, Your team is a pathetic bunch of losers that just killed our great chance @ Bedard.

Don't worry...
We still can lose against CBJ to help you guys out. Have faith.



I got nothing man...just nothing.

 

[SomeDude]

Pens new GM will be Chiarelli.

FSG will hire some Boston folk hero like Don Cherry or Ted Williams’ frozen head.

 

[Power Surge]

That's the thing that confuses me more. I posted on reddit that "even had Hextall built the surrounding cast well, this team would lose in the 1st round like they have for years" and it got downvoted. Like what team are you watching that you magically thing this team is anything special?

I really think Penguins fans are absolutely delusional with the state of this team. They've lost in the 1st round for 4 straight years and are likely going to miss the playoffs this year. Yet everything outside of Hextall is fine? You're at least starting to see some criticism thrown at Sullivan, but it's substantially less vocal than the criticism thrown at Hextall.

I think Penguins fans grossly overrate both the core and Sullivan for what they're providing today.

Because Pittsburgh loves their HC's. They can do no wrong and deserve life time contracts.

You had people in the Steeler thread that were literally gloating after the game, being eliminated from the playoffs, because oh he kept the precious record because that is more important than building a championship.

I'm not originally from Pittsburgh either so I don't understand that way of thinking but it is what it is.

 

[Pancakes]

Hawks fan here, Your team is a pathetic bunch of losers that just killed our great chance @ Bedard.

Good. If there's ever a franchise that deserves to be terrible for a long time it's the Hawks.

 

[hiptanaka]

In hindsight, Sullivan probably had less of a hand during the 16/17 cup runs than we initially thought. The 2016 team was largely JR's construction and Murray's emergence. The 2017 team benefited from favorable matchups, Fleury completely stealing Game 7 against the Caps, and again, an absolutely dominant Murray from the Ottawa series on. Neither run was about spectacular coaching.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Malkin has put up a 56% 5v5 expected goals, and is a PPG. Crosby has put up a 55%, and obviously is over a PPG.

Letang is at a 54% 5v5 xgoals, and has put up a decent offensive season.

It's kinda nuts that they've put up those level of seasons and played in every single game and the Pens aren't going to make the playoffs.

I'm not sure what more you could ask from them at their ages. I guess you could call them overrated if you think that they should on their own be able to drag this team into the playoffs. They're probably not *that* tier of player any more. But they've done more than enough to get the Pens in if the Pens had any depth or goaltending or coaching at all. Trouble is, as we all know, they have no depth, questionable goaltending, and dreadful coaching. (dons Michel Therrien hat) You put the two combination and....*sticks out tongue*

That's my point. Old Crosby, Malkin and Letang used to be able to do that. Look at the bottom-6 groups those teams had under Bylsma, yet this team was threatening for the President's Trophy at their best.

I think Penguins fans still have this idea that Crosby, Malkin and Letang are the same old Crosby, Malkin and Letang and the Penguins can just be cup contenders if the rest of the team around them is built correctly. That's why people are so mad at Hextall for not building that team. I just think that the performance Crosby, Malkin and Letang are giving today doesn't line up with that to me. I don't think this team can challenge for anything even if the team is built well around them. Their contending window is firmly shut at this point.

Another way to put it is that with all else being equal, I don't think Crosby, Malkin and Letang are good enough anymore to contend with the new top cores in the NHL.

I want to emphasize that this isn't a criticism towards the players at all. This is what aging looks like. I'm just making the point that a lot of Penguins fans seem to not be adjusting based on the core aging. This core today isn't "build a strong team around the core and you have a cup contender". This core today is "build a strong team around the core and you'll lose in the 2nd round to a team with a younger and better core".

 

[Power Surge]

I don't see a GM out there wanting the Pittsburgh job until Sullivan is fired.

 

[66-30-33]

Atleast we didn't trade our 1st for Granlund.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Sullivan may actually be a worse coach than Disco Dipshit, who actually managed to get this team into the playoffs and win a series or two.

We went from “grinding bitches down” to BECOMING the bitches that get ground the f*** down…..

Makes me sick.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I can't believe I'm even still here talking about this f***ing team. f***ing losers. Hat tip to Ragamuffin.

Hope they nuke the entire thing this summer. FO, scouting, coaching, and like 80% of the roster. f*** 'em all.

-edit- Trade everyone who isn't nailed down. That starts with Jake. If Sid and Geno get pissy and want out, good luck and godspeed elsewhere. See ya in a few years for the jersey retirement.

 

[Pancakes]

That's my point. Old Crosby, Malkin and Letang used to be able to do that. Look at the bottom-6 groups those teams had under Bylsma, yet this team was threatening for the President's Trophy at their best.

I think Penguins fans still have this idea that Crosby, Malkin and Letang are the same old Crosby, Malkin and Letang and the Penguins can just be cup contenders if the rest of the team around them is built correctly. That's why people are so mad at Hextall for not building that team. I just think that the performance Crosby, Malkin and Letang are giving today doesn't line up with that to me. I don't think this team can challenge for anything even if the team is built well around them. Their contending window is firmly shut at this point.

Another way to put it is that with all else being equal, I don't think Crosby, Malkin and Letang are good enough anymore to contend with the new top cores in the NHL.

That's a fair opinion. But the Bruins just put up one of the best seasons ever and will probably win the cup and their core is also old as shit. And they got arguably less out of Bergeron and Marchand than we just did out of Crosby and Malkin. They do have Pasta, but even beyond him their depth just far exceeds ours, as does their coaching.

I think the Pens could still be a highly competitive team with the right coach and a GM who rebuilds the depth of the team. For how much longer I don't know...that depends on how much longer Crosby, Malkin, and Letang can maintain a good level of play.

There's a lot of work to do though and I don't trust the current regime to do it, nor do I trust Sullivan to guide whatever players are brought in this off season to try to course correct all of this.

 

[Darren McCord]

I don't see a GM out there wanting the Pittsburgh job until Sullivan is fired.

come on down pierre mcquire

 

[Pancakes]

I can't believe I'm even still here talking about this f***ing team. f***ing losers. Hat tip to Ragamuffin.

Hope they nuke the entire thing this summer. FO, scouting, coaching, and like 80% of the roster. f*** 'em all.

I'd be ok with moving everyone not named Crosby, Malkin, or Letang.

Honestly even Jake isn't off the table for me any more. It'd have to be a hellacious offer, but he has been a passenger in so many games this year. I wouldn't give him away, but if someone blew my socks off I'd do it.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's my point. Old Crosby, Malkin and Letang used to be able to do that. Look at the bottom-6 groups those teams had under Bylsma, yet this team was threatening for the President's Trophy at their best.

I think Penguins fans still have this idea that Crosby, Malkin and Letang are the same old Crosby, Malkin and Letang and the Penguins can just be cup contenders if the rest of the team around them is built correctly. That's why people are so mad at Hextall for not building that team. I just think that the performance Crosby, Malkin and Letang are giving today doesn't line up with that to me. I don't think this team can challenge for anything even if the team is built well around them. Their contending window is firmly shut at this point.

Another way to put it is that with all else being equal, I don't think Crosby, Malkin and Letang are good enough anymore to contend with the new top cores in the NHL.

I want to emphasize that this isn't a criticism towards the players at all. This is what aging looks like. I'm just making the point that a lot of Penguins fans seem to not be adjusting based on the core aging. This core today isn't "build a strong team around the core and you have a cup contender". This core today is "build a strong team around the core and you'll lose in the 2nd round to a team with a younger and better core".

I mean. This team was absolutely sunk by coaching and goaltending this year.

If they get a coach that can do anything to change the narrative or league average goaltending they are fine.

 

[Power Surge]

come on down pierre mcquire

If there was ever a Beta Simp that would take the job, very true.

 

[Will Hunting]

That's my point. Old Crosby, Malkin and Letang used to be able to do that. Look at the bottom-6 groups those teams had under Bylsma, yet this team was threatening for the President's Trophy at their best.

I think Penguins fans still have this idea that Crosby, Malkin and Letang are the same old Crosby, Malkin and Letang and the Penguins can just be cup contenders if the rest of the team around them is built correctly. That's why people are so mad at Hextall for not building that team. I just think that the performance Crosby, Malkin and Letang are giving today doesn't line up with that to me. I don't think this team can challenge for anything even if the team is built well around them. Their contending window is firmly shut at this point.

Another way to put it is that with all else being equal, I don't think Crosby, Malkin and Letang are good enough anymore to contend with the new top cores in the NHL.

I want to emphasize that this isn't a criticism towards the players at all. This is what aging looks like. I'm just making the point that a lot of Penguins fans seem to not be adjusting based on the core aging. This core today isn't "build a strong team around the core and you have a cup contender". This core today is "build a strong team around the core and you'll lose in the 2nd round to a team with a younger and better core".

I get your point Empo. Might be right. But anyway, San Jose got to the finals with worse core against us. They should be able to at least get to playoffs and win maybe some round there with this core, when healthy. The fact that they didn´t even make playoffs speaks volumes about Sullivan and Hextall.

 

[canadianguy77]

That's my point. Old Crosby, Malkin and Letang used to be able to do that. Look at the bottom-6 groups those teams had under Bylsma, yet this team was threatening for the President's Trophy at their best.

I think Penguins fans still have this idea that Crosby, Malkin and Letang are the same old Crosby, Malkin and Letang and the Penguins can just be cup contenders if the rest of the team around them is built correctly. That's why people are so mad at Hextall for not building that team. I just think that the performance Crosby, Malkin and Letang are giving today doesn't line up with that to me. I don't think this team can challenge for anything even if the team is built well around them. Their contending window is firmly shut at this point.

Another way to put it is that with all else being equal, I don't think Crosby, Malkin and Letang are good enough anymore to contend with the new top cores in the NHL.

I want to emphasize that this isn't a criticism towards the players at all. This is what aging looks like. I'm just making the point that a lot of Penguins fans seem to not be adjusting based on the core aging. This core today isn't "build a strong team around the core and you have a cup contender". This core today is "build a strong team around the core and you'll lose in the 2nd round to a team with a younger and better core".

Look at all of the recent cup winners. Multiple stars on every team. Talking like 5 on every one of those teams. Sure they're getting older but it's a fact that we don't have the horses either.

 

[PensandCaps]

I can't believe I'm even still here talking about this f***ing team. f***ing losers. Hat tip to Ragamuffin.

Hope they nuke the entire thing this summer. FO, scouting, coaching, and like 80% of the roster. f*** 'em all.

-edit- Trade everyone who isn't nailed down. That starts with Jake. If Sid and Geno get pissy and want out, good luck and godspeed elsewhere. See ya in a few years for the jersey retirement.

I'm all for trading Guentzel but I want him around to help Crosby stat pad in his final few years.

 

[Pancakes]

I mean. This team was absolutely sunk by coaching and goaltending this year.

If they get a coach that can do anything to change the narrative or league average goaltending they are fine.

I don't see either of those things changing next year because Sully will probably be back and our management will probably be cowardly enough to re-sign Jarry instead of doing something bold

 

[PensandCaps]

I get your point Empo. Might be right. But anyway, San Jose got to the finals with worse core against us. They should be able to at least get to playoffs and win maybe some round there with this core, when healthy. The fact that they didn´t even make playoffs speaks volumes about Sullivan and Hextall.

Pavelski/Couture/Thornton/Marleau/Burns/Vlasic/Hertl

They were stacked.

 

[Andy99]

Don't worry...
We still can lose against CBJ to help you guys out. Have faith.



I got nothing man...just nothing.

The best thing the Pens could do for themselves would be to lose to CBJ now…I think we can move up to have a chance at a #3 pick…

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Throw on some Billy Squire - Stroke, on the Spotify and blast it ripping down some streets in the Stang, mate. It'll help.

Just not a Firebird Trans Am

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's a fair opinion. But the Bruins just put up one of the best seasons ever and will probably win the cup and their core is also old as shit. And they got arguably less out of Bergeron and Marchand than we just did out of Crosby and Malkin. They do have Pasta, but even beyond him their depth just far exceeds ours, as does their coaching.

I think the Pens could still be a highly competitive team with the right coach and a GM who rebuilds the depth of the team. For how much longer I don't know...that depends on how much longer Crosby, Malkin, and Letang can maintain a good level of play.

There's a lot of work to do though and I don't trust the current regime to do it, nor do I trust Sullivan to guide whatever players are brought in this off season to try to course correct all of this.

Boston's also built where you can legitimately argue that Bergeron, Marchand and Krejci (their main old players) aren't their most important players, though. The Penguins live and die based on Crosby, Malkin and Letang. The Bruins don't do that with their old guys at all. Just look at the TOI difference between Crosby, Malkin and Letang and compare them to the Bruins, Bergeron is playing a solid 3 minutes less a game than Crosby.

You are correct that the Bruins had a rapid transformation, but the Bruins were in a substantially better spot last off-season than the Penguins are today.