- Jun 13, 2010
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I feel like Graves is market value too. Good news is, with the cap going up, it becomes easier and easier to hide his cap hit. Thankfully it wasn't a 6x6 or something like that.
Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX
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You must be higher on Graves than I am. I don't consider him top 4 quality. He's a bottom pair guy at best for me.
- Jun 13, 2010
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Nah, didn't say that. I'm just saying at the time, I think his value was that of a 2nd pairing LD and I think he got fairly paid as such.
Now, he's likely a bottom pairing guy
MeinerEiner
Registered User
I think Dubas is more trade happy than last season. With the comments about the young player needing to push it’s pretty clear to me that he is capable of trading/waiving players.
I’m a little excited for the upcoming season, especially for guys like Puuljujarvi, McGroaty and the young guns in WBS.
I’m a little excited for the upcoming season, especially for guys like Puuljujarvi, McGroaty and the young guns in WBS.
DesertPenguin
Registered User
- Apr 22, 2015
- 3,401
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Is it time to talk roster building and lines in this thread? I think it is.
Rust, Lizotte, Ned on IR. Nieto LTIR, probably forever.
DOC Crosby Beauvillier (should be Puustinen)
Bunting Malkin Rakell
McG Eller Puljujarvi
Hayes Glass Acciari
Puustinen
Pettersson Karlsson
Grelzyk Letang
Graves St Ivany
Shea
Jarry
Blomqvist
Did I miss anyone?
Rust, Lizotte, Ned on IR. Nieto LTIR, probably forever.
DOC Crosby Beauvillier (should be Puustinen)
Bunting Malkin Rakell
McG Eller Puljujarvi
Hayes Glass Acciari
Puustinen
Pettersson Karlsson
Grelzyk Letang
Graves St Ivany
Shea
Jarry
Blomqvist
Did I miss anyone?
Gurglesons
Registered User
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I think Graves was horrendous in the pre-season but I think people exaggerate how truly bad he was. At 5v5 last year, he finished with a 1.98 GA/60, he really wasn't getting scored on. The issue is that he also wasn't on the ice when they were scoring either, he only had a 2.03 GF/60. His GF/GA and xGF/xGA results were very similar to Eller's last year.
He's a low impact player that you doesn't move the needle when playing well and makes some atrociously awful bad plays now and then. He's a $2.5 million #5 D that's overpaid by nearly 2x in money and by 3 years. If he was on a 3 year, $2.5 million AAV deal, I think the complaints about him would be quieter. Not gone, but quieter.
Graves is a defenseman version of Acciari that's making comically more than he's worth.
He's a low impact player that you doesn't move the needle when playing well and makes some atrociously awful bad plays now and then. He's a $2.5 million #5 D that's overpaid by nearly 2x in money and by 3 years. If he was on a 3 year, $2.5 million AAV deal, I think the complaints about him would be quieter. Not gone, but quieter.
Graves is a defenseman version of Acciari that's making comically more than he's worth.
DearDiary
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- Aug 29, 2010
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Big Friggin Dummy
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- Feb 22, 2019
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My hope for Petts is that a team, who has been real bad, real recently (decent crop of prospects, might not value their own picks as highly), makes a jump this season and they want to add a guy like him to their blueline for a serious playoff push. Ottawa comes to mind, but I don't think they need a top-4 LD.
Malkinstheman
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- Aug 12, 2012
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I think Utah makes a ton of sense. They have a ridiculous amount of picks and prospects
pistolpete11
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2013
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How's that compare to his career average? In terms of points, he was down a good bit from his career average. He averages 25 per 82. Last year he had 14 in 70 which is 16 over 82. So maybe there is hope he can bounce back offensively a bit?
The question would be why was he down? Ice time was in line with his career average (18:53 average, 18:23 last year). Zone starts were equal (61.5% D-zone average, 61.8% last year). He played a good portion of the season with Letang or Karlsson. Only thing I can see is that shots and shot attempts were down.
CheckingLineCenter
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2018
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I think the cope with Graves and Jarry isnt trying to convince ourselves they’re any good.
It’s that we’re likely not competing during those contracts, nor pressed for that cap space.
It’s that we’re likely not competing during those contracts, nor pressed for that cap space.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
I think the cope is thinking that signing those contracts was in any way shape or form positive, especially Graves.
We're in no danger of not reaching the cap floor. We shouldn't be signing terrible free agents, we should be taking terrible free agents off of other teams' hands for a fee.
We're in no danger of not reaching the cap floor. We shouldn't be signing terrible free agents, we should be taking terrible free agents off of other teams' hands for a fee.
Randy Butternubs
Registurd User
Just some Graves stuff below. It's based on Hockey Reference's point shares and games played:
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]pens[/TD]
[TD]elsewhere[/TD]
[TD]% error[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]gp[/TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ops[/TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]dps[/TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]tps[/TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ops/gp[/TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]dps/gp[/TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]tps/gp[/TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Basically, his offensive game suffered greatly with the Pens. And as such, so did his entire game.
edit: not sure why I used % error. regardless, huge differences.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]pens[/TD]
[TD]elsewhere[/TD]
[TD]% error[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]gp[/TD]
[TD]
70
[/TD][TD]
302
[/TD][TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ops[/TD]
[TD]
0.1
[/TD][TD]
5.6
[/TD][TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]dps[/TD]
[TD]
3.3
[/TD][TD]
17.3
[/TD][TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]tps[/TD]
[TD]
3.3
[/TD][TD]
22.9
[/TD][TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ops/gp[/TD]
[TD]
0.001429
[/TD][TD]
0.018543
[/TD][TD]
92.29592
[/TD][/TR]
[TR]
[TD]dps/gp[/TD]
[TD]
0.047143
[/TD][TD]
0.057285
[/TD][TD]
17.70438
[/TD][/TR]
[TR]
[TD]tps/gp[/TD]
[TD]
0.047143
[/TD][TD]
0.075828
[/TD][TD]
37.82907
[/TD][/TR]
[/TABLE]
Basically, his offensive game suffered greatly with the Pens. And as such, so did his entire game.
edit: not sure why I used % error. regardless, huge differences.
Last edited:
it's called "the sully factor"
PensFutures
Registered User
- Nov 15, 2010
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BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
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No way! This seems very far-fetched. I have been assured this team is fast and skilled.
Randy Butternubs
Registurd User
I'm sure part of it was not having a decent partner to mesh with til JSI. But he still needs to be better.
- Jun 13, 2010
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- 22,652
Randy Butternubs
Registurd User
NHL Stats Glossary | Hockey-Reference.com
Definitions of basic and advanced basketball stats
www.hockey-reference.com
Hockey Reference has a thing called point shares (total, offense, and defense):
"PS
Point shares; an estimate of the number of points contributed by a player. Please see the article Calculating Points Shares for more information."
But I've then divided them by games played to make his pre-Pens and Pens time comparable.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
He’s simply a bad fit for this team and the game they actually play. He’d have been an okay acquisition for a team that really plays the way the Pens THINK they play.
Randy Butternubs
Registurd User
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
Anyhow what’s important is that we never admit the front office or coaching staff were wrong and that we double down on the Graves experiment
AuroraBorealis
Back-to-back hater
Graves wasn't a terrible free agent at the time. He was coming off a very strong season in NJD. Good years in Colorado too.
He's actually had a pretty strong career overall.
For whatever reason it's not working here, and we're getting his low point.
I haven't given up on him yet. It's only year 1 of the deal so far. Although I'm not optimistic after what he showed in camp.
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