Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[SEALBound]

Agree with all of this. Jarry for all his faults isn't massively overpaid relative to the rest of the goalie market. He's poor contract, but not an absolute boat anchor like Graves. If you time it right with a desperate team, I think you can get out from under Jarry's deal without taking back long term money. Graves is only moving in exchange for someone else's bad deal.

Rakell is pretty much exactly market value for an average top six winger. Not great and not bad either. Very tradable imo.

I feel like Graves is market value too. Good news is, with the cap going up, it becomes easier and easier to hide his cap hit. Thankfully it wasn't a 6x6 or something like that.

 

[Sideline]

I feel like Graves is market value too. Good news is, with the cap going up, it becomes easier and easier to hide his cap hit. Thankfully it wasn't a 6x6 or something like that.

You must be higher on Graves than I am. I don't consider him top 4 quality. He's a bottom pair guy at best for me.

 

[SEALBound]

You must be higher on Graves than I am. I don't consider him top 4 quality. He's a bottom pair guy at best for me.

Nah, didn't say that. I'm just saying at the time, I think his value was that of a 2nd pairing LD and I think he got fairly paid as such.

Now, he's likely a bottom pairing guy

 

[MeinerEiner]

I think Dubas is more trade happy than last season. With the comments about the young player needing to push it’s pretty clear to me that he is capable of trading/waiving players.


I’m a little excited for the upcoming season, especially for guys like Puuljujarvi, McGroaty and the young guns in WBS.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Is it time to talk roster building and lines in this thread? I think it is.

Rust, Lizotte, Ned on IR. Nieto LTIR, probably forever.

DOC Crosby Beauvillier (should be Puustinen)
Bunting Malkin Rakell
McG Eller Puljujarvi
Hayes Glass Acciari
Puustinen

Pettersson Karlsson
Grelzyk Letang
Graves St Ivany
Shea

Jarry
Blomqvist

Did I miss anyone?

 

[Gurglesons]

Jarry and Graves are market value.

Just ignore their performance prior and now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Graves was horrendous in the pre-season but I think people exaggerate how truly bad he was. At 5v5 last year, he finished with a 1.98 GA/60, he really wasn't getting scored on. The issue is that he also wasn't on the ice when they were scoring either, he only had a 2.03 GF/60. His GF/GA and xGF/xGA results were very similar to Eller's last year.

He's a low impact player that you doesn't move the needle when playing well and makes some atrociously awful bad plays now and then. He's a $2.5 million #5 D that's overpaid by nearly 2x in money and by 3 years. If he was on a 3 year, $2.5 million AAV deal, I think the complaints about him would be quieter. Not gone, but quieter.

Graves is a defenseman version of Acciari that's making comically more than he's worth.

 

[DearDiary]

Jarry and Graves are market value.

Just ignore their performance prior and now.

Ok... good. Whatever makes sense

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

My hope for Petts is that a team, who has been real bad, real recently (decent crop of prospects, might not value their own picks as highly), makes a jump this season and they want to add a guy like him to their blueline for a serious playoff push. Ottawa comes to mind, but I don't think they need a top-4 LD.

 

[Malkinstheman]

My hope for Petts is that a team, who has been real bad, real recently (decent crop of prospects, might not value their own picks as highly), makes a jump this season and they want to add a guy like him to their blueline for a serious playoff push. Ottawa comes to mind, but I don't think they need a top-4 LD.

I think Utah makes a ton of sense. They have a ridiculous amount of picks and prospects

 

[pistolpete11]

I think Graves was horrendous in the pre-season but I think people exaggerate how truly bad he was. At 5v5 last year, he finished with a 1.98 GA/60, he really wasn't getting scored on. The issue is that he also wasn't on the ice when they were scoring either, he only had a 2.03 GF/60. His GF/GA and xGF/xGA results were very similar to Eller's last year.

He's a low impact player that you doesn't move the needle when playing well and makes some atrociously awful bad plays now and then. He's a $2.5 million #5 D that's overpaid by nearly 2x in money and by 3 years. If he was on a 3 year, $2.5 million AAV deal, I think the complaints about him would be quieter. Not gone, but quieter.

Graves is a defenseman version of Acciari that's making comically more than he's worth.

How's that compare to his career average? In terms of points, he was down a good bit from his career average. He averages 25 per 82. Last year he had 14 in 70 which is 16 over 82. So maybe there is hope he can bounce back offensively a bit?

The question would be why was he down? Ice time was in line with his career average (18:53 average, 18:23 last year). Zone starts were equal (61.5% D-zone average, 61.8% last year). He played a good portion of the season with Letang or Karlsson. Only thing I can see is that shots and shot attempts were down.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think the cope with Graves and Jarry isnt trying to convince ourselves they’re any good.

It’s that we’re likely not competing during those contracts, nor pressed for that cap space.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think the cope is thinking that signing those contracts was in any way shape or form positive, especially Graves.

We're in no danger of not reaching the cap floor. We shouldn't be signing terrible free agents, we should be taking terrible free agents off of other teams' hands for a fee.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Just some Graves stuff below. It's based on Hockey Reference's point shares and games played:

	pens	elsewhere	% error
gp	70​	302​
ops	0.1​	5.6​
dps	3.3​	17.3​
tps	3.3​	22.9​
ops/gp	0.001429​	0.018543​	92.29592​
dps/gp	0.047143​	0.057285​	17.70438​
tps/gp	0.047143​	0.075828​	37.82907​

Basically, his offensive game suffered greatly with the Pens. And as such, so did his entire game.

edit: not sure why I used % error. regardless, huge differences.

 

[The Old Master]

Just some Graves stuff below. It's based on Hockey Reference's point shares and games played:

	pens	elsewhere	% difference
gp	70​	302​
ops	0.1​	5.6​
dps	3.3​	17.3​
tps	3.3​	22.9​
ops/gp	0.001429​	0.018543​	92.29592​
dps/gp	0.047143​	0.057285​	17.70438​
tps/gp	0.047143​	0.075828​	37.82907​

Basically, his offensive game suffered greatly with the Pens. And as such, so did his entire game.

it's called "the sully factor"

 

[Sike Mullivan]

Just some Graves stuff below. It's based on Hockey Reference's point shares and games played:

	pens	elsewhere	% difference
gp	70​	302​
ops	0.1​	5.6​
dps	3.3​	17.3​
tps	3.3​	22.9​
ops/gp	0.001429​	0.018543​	92.29592​
dps/gp	0.047143​	0.057285​	17.70438​
tps/gp	0.047143​	0.075828​	37.82907​

Basically, his offensive game suffered greatly with the Pens. And as such, so did his entire game.

Seems to be a trend here...

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Just some Graves stuff below. It's based on Hockey Reference's point shares and games played:

	pens	elsewhere	% difference
gp	70​	302​
ops	0.1​	5.6​
dps	3.3​	17.3​
tps	3.3​	22.9​
ops/gp	0.001429​	0.018543​	92.29592​
dps/gp	0.047143​	0.057285​	17.70438​
tps/gp	0.047143​	0.075828​	37.82907​

Basically, his offensive game suffered greatly with the Pens. And as such, so did his entire game.

No way! This seems very far-fetched. I have been assured this team is fast and skilled.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I'm sure part of it was not having a decent partner to mesh with til JSI. But he still needs to be better.

 

[SEALBound]

Just some Graves stuff below. It's based on Hockey Reference's point shares and games played:

	pens	elsewhere	% error
gp	70​	302​
ops	0.1​	5.6​
dps	3.3​	17.3​
tps	3.3​	22.9​
ops/gp	0.001429​	0.018543​	92.29592​
dps/gp	0.047143​	0.057285​	17.70438​
tps/gp	0.047143​	0.075828​	37.82907​

Basically, his offensive game suffered greatly with the Pens. And as such, so did his entire game.

edit: not sure why I used % error. regardless, huge differences.

Sullivan:

 

[eXile3]

Just some Graves stuff below. It's based on Hockey Reference's point shares and games played:

	pens	elsewhere	% error
gp	70​	302​
ops	0.1​	5.6​
dps	3.3​	17.3​
tps	3.3​	22.9​
ops/gp	0.001429​	0.018543​	92.29592​
dps/gp	0.047143​	0.057285​	17.70438​
tps/gp	0.047143​	0.075828​	37.82907​

Basically, his offensive game suffered greatly with the Pens. And as such, so did his entire game.

edit: not sure why I used % error. regardless, huge differences.

What are these stats?

 

[Randy Butternubs]

What are these stats?

NHL Stats Glossary | Hockey-Reference.com

Definitions of basic and advanced basketball stats

www.hockey-reference.com

Hockey Reference has a thing called point shares (total, offense, and defense):

"PS
Point shares; an estimate of the number of points contributed by a player. Please see the article Calculating Points Shares for more information."

But I've then divided them by games played to make his pre-Pens and Pens time comparable.