Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[HandshakeLine]

At some point you just have to go on the evidence you actually have, and all evidence points to FSG and Dubas and Sullivan all being wildly in denial about the current state of the team.

 

[HandshakeLine]

When you count up all the assets and cap used on middling to garbage players from ‘17 on, it’s depressing. Not including Brassard. Could’ve added another high end piece instead of JJ, Zucker, Kap, Gudbranson, Bjugstad etc

Like I said in another thread, the fact that we've been steadily acquiring these kinds of players over 3 separate GMs means it's Sullivan, not the GM.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

My pitiful, last grasp at optimism is that Dubas just told Sully to point to guys he wanted and he'd get them while he takes the season to evaluate the team and decide on a direction for the future. And that after this season, having bent the knee to Sully in the summer, he'll have no choice but to fire him and begin the tear down.

But I know that the team will just go back to the Cliche Generator 9000 to come up with a boatload of mediaspeak PR bullshit that idiotic fans will eat up, and we'll be right back here 12 months from now bitching about how the top-6 isn't good enough for Sid/Geno's current capability, the bottom-6 is bereft of anything approaching possession/scoring support, the power play is a shitshow, and Jarry's numbers are sparkling despite letting in a concerning number of backbreaking goals at the worst times.

 

[HandshakeLine]

But I know that the team will just go back to the Cliche Generator 9000 to come up with a boatload of mediaspeak PR bullshit that idiotic fans will eat up

Good news, they'll jump ship back to the Stillers (no matter how bad they are) like yinzers always do.

 

[SEALBound]

When you count up all the assets and cap used on middling to garbage players from ‘17 on, it’s depressing. Not including Brassard. Could’ve added another high end piece instead of JJ, Zucker, Kap, Gudbranson, Bjugstad etc

Here's the slightly depressing part though - I did some research on every prospect and draft pick we gave away since 2007. I judge prospects on total NHL games played and production. And on the draft picks, I judged the player that was taken and each player taken 5-10 slots after our selection because you never really know how our scouts had guys ranked.

The sad truth is that very, VERY little of what we have given away over the last 17 years amounted to anything meaningful. Here are the highlights:
1. 2015, our 1st was flipped from Edmonton to NYI and they took Barzel. But that 1st got us Perron, who got us Hagelin, who was instrumental in our resurgence in the b2b, so...
2. The 7th we gave to Ottawa in 2011 for Alexei Kovalev was used on Ryan Dzingel.
3. In 2017, we used our first to get Reaves+2nd. That was 31OV and Klim Kostin was selected who is a 4th line player. At 39OV, Jason Robertson was taken. Now that said, JR said they would have taken Zack Lauzon anyway so...irrelevant.
4. The 1st in 2018 was flipped from OTT to NYR and they took K'Andre Miller who is a decent dman for NYR right now.
5. The 1st in 2020 was used on Kapanen. It was 15OV. At 19OV, Dawson Mercer was taken.

That's about it. Seriously. None of the prospects we've ever given away have amounted to anything and very, very few of the picks amounted to anything of value. Really, only the 2020 1st IMHO was the miss. I thought a 1st for Kapanen was too much.

But looking at who we got with most of those picks and prospects, were win-now, help-now guys. Each of whom provided significantly more value than the prospect or pick given up for them.

Some of the player-for-player trades, such as Hags for Pearson or Pearson for Gudbranson, are debatable but, ultimately, a little lost.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

This team could fire Sullivan and Reirden, then trade Jake for a haul this afternoon, and I'd have a gigantic smile on my face for six months even if they don't win another game this season.

Good news, they'll jump ship back to the Stillers (no matter how bad they are) like yinzers always do.

Man, that arena's gonna be ugly when Sid retires. It's already like 30-40% empty whenever you look around now.

Hell of an investment, Mr. Henry.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Here's the slightly depressing part though - I did some research on every prospect and draft pick we gave away since 2007. I judge prospects on total NHL games played and production. And on the draft picks, I judged the player that was taken and each player taken 5-10 slots after our selection because you never really know how our scouts had guys ranked.

The sad truth is that very, VERY little of what we have given away over the last 17 years amounted to anything meaningful. Here are the highlights:
1. 2015, our 1st was flipped from Edmonton to NYI and they took Barzel. But that 1st got us Perron, who got us Hagelin, who was instrumental in our resurgence in the b2b, so...
2. The 7th we gave to Ottawa in 2011 for Alexei Kovalev was used on Ryan Dzingel.
3. In 2017, we used our first to get Reaves+2nd. That was 31OV and Klim Kostin was selected who is a 4th line player. At 39OV, Jason Robertson was taken. Now that said, JR said they would have taken Zack Lauzon anyway so...irrelevant.
4. The 1st in 2018 was flipped from OTT to NYR and they took K'Andre Miller who is a decent dman for NYR right now.
5. The 1st in 2020 was used on Kapanen. It was 15OV. At 19OV, Dawson Mercer was taken.

That's about it. Seriously. None of the prospects we've ever given away have amounted to anything and very, very few of the picks amounted to anything of value. Really, only the 2020 1st IMHO was the miss. I thought a 1st for Kapanen was too much.

But looking at who we got with most of those picks and prospects, were win-now, help-now guys. Each of whom provided significantly more value than the prospect or pick given up for them.

Some of the player-for-player trades, such as Hags for Pearson or Pearson for Gudbranson, are debatable but, ultimately, a little lost.

I think more to the point is that the assets were spent for players that did not work or were not used at all properly.

It's fine giving up assets for players in a win-now situation (which we no longer are), but man, get better players. Or at least use the ones you get instead of benching them or trying to make them into something they aren't.

 

[Gurglesons]

This team could fire Sullivan and Reirden, then trade Jake for a haul this afternoon, and I'd have a gigantic smile on my face for six months even if they don't win another game this season.

Yeah that would rock.

 

[SEALBound]

I think more to the point is that the assets were spent for players that did not work or were not used at all properly.

It's fine giving up assets for players in a win-now situation (which we no longer are), but man, get better players. Or at least use the ones you get instead of benching them or trying to make them into something they aren't.

I guess in order to respond better, I'd have to know who "wasn't used properly".

I get the "get better players" part but remember, for each trade where we get a player, that player was available. Not every player is available. Sometimes the market isn't great.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah that would rock.

 

[Gurglesons]

Dummy, u sunvabitch.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

That's about it. Seriously. None of the prospects we've ever given away have amounted to anything and very, very few of the picks amounted to anything of value. Really, only the 2020 1st IMHO was the miss. I thought a 1st for Kapanen was too much.

But looking at who we got with most of those picks and prospects, were win-now, help-now guys. Each of whom provided significantly more value than the prospect or pick given up for them.

Some of the player-for-player trades, such as Hags for Pearson or Pearson for Gudbranson, are debatable but, ultimately, a little lost.

I didn’t mean in a “we could’ve picked a guy” sense, more in a “these assets and cap could’ve been used on better assets at the time” sense.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Dummy, u sunvabitch.

We fight like cats and dogs about hockey stuff but you're alright, pixies.

Just objectively incorrect about all of your hockey takes that don't align with mine.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

We fight like cats and dogs about hockey stuff but you're alright, pixies.

Just objectively incorrect about all of your hockey takes that don't align with mine.

He makes me want to pull my hair out sometimes but like I've said in the past... his music taste is really good so I'll overlook a lot lol

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

He makes me want to pull my hair out sometimes but like I've said in the past... his music taste is really good so I'll overlook a lot lol

In that case, have I got a little hidden gem for you to check out. It's a band called Crazytown--particularly their single Butterfly.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Are they seriously not recalling anyone?

And sending White down?

And recalling someone for his spot?

 

[pistolpete11]

Are they seriously not recalling anyone?

And sending White down?

And recalling someone for his spot?

I heard they are going to run a 3D 2F setup. And you people say that Sullivan never tries anything.

 

[Andy99]

Are they seriously not recalling anyone?

And sending White down?

And recalling someone for his spot?

Open competition among the zamboni drivers...heard that's worked before..

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Are they seriously not recalling anyone?

And sending White down?

And recalling someone for his spot?

No morning skate for either Pens or Blackhawks, so they may already have made moves and just haven't publicly announced them.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Are they seriously not recalling anyone?

And sending White down?

And recalling someone for his spot?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I remember a few games back when the Penguins won a couple of games in relatively "meh" fashion against one flat out terrible team and one so-so team and there were some people strutting around here flinging insults about what a bunch of doo-doo heads we all were for doubting these titans of the sport. That was fun. Where ya'll at?

 

[ChaosAgent]

In that case, have I got a little hidden gem for you to check out. It's a band called Crazytown--particularly their single Butterfly.

I feel like Sully loved that song in his early 30s.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I feel like Sully loved that song in his early 30s.

I got Sully tapped as more of a Dave Matthews guy.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I feel like Sully loved that song in his early 30s.

Be muh buttahfly

SUGAH

BEHBEH

 

[Grouch]

Are they seriously not recalling anyone?

And sending White down?

And recalling someone for his spot?

If so, then 1) at least Jake is healthy and can be traded. 2) if not they will run 10-7-3, with Jarry on 3rd line wing (more goals than Harkins so def upgrade) and rely on stadium EBG to back up Ned.