Rumor: Penguins targeting Garland in talks with Vancouver

[The Grim Reaper]

I have no interest in trading any of our forwards to Pittsburgh unless Marino is involved.

I’d be surprised if Marino wasn’t in play.

 

[bleuetbio]

Defence sucks and cap structure is a mess, Miller might not re-sign so maximize his trade value now. A player like Boeser/Garland would probably be a hockey trade for a youngish top 4 dman to address team need.

Realy like the retooling idea... and IMO you can forget Miller if Vancouver let down the playoff race.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The issue is the team needs a Neal not a Hornqvist. We look like the 14-15 Pens who needed to add Kessel.

The issue is they could use both. With one being a LW.

 

[jmelm]

The issue is they could use both. With one being a LW.

We don’t need a LW *IF* Zucker is going to come back healthy with 8-10+ games left in the regular season before the playoffs; in addition to having Drew O’Connor waiting in the wings and who would already be playing on this team (and possibly on Malkin’s wing) already if he didn’t get injured & Covid.

We need a RW improvement. None of Boeser, Garland, Rakell are perfect players, but all of them are better than Kapanen. We have limited cap room and assets to trade, so we’re just not going to get more than one unfortunately.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Garland would be much cheaper for the Pens, they just don't have the pieces to land Tyler Bertuzzi.

 

[orby]

Marino for Garland makes the most sense to me in terms of a pure hockey trade of anything mentioned in this thread. I think their value is probably about equal. It would have to be one of multiple Pens trades as Marino would need to be replaced on defense, but it seems realistic to me.

I will say that it seems like Marcus Pettersson is in Sullivan's doghouse, at least to an extent. He's been a healthy scratch in two straight games. I wouldn't be totally shocked if he, not Marino, is the odd man out who ends up getting traded.

 

[jmelm]

Marino for Garland makes the most sense to me in terms of a pure hockey trade of anything mentioned in this thread. I think their value is probably about equal. It would have to be one of multiple Pens trades as Marino would need to be replaced on defense, but it seems realistic to me.

I will say that it seems like Marcus Pettersson is in Sullivan's doghouse, at least to an extent. He's been a healthy scratch in two straight games. I wouldn't be totally shocked if he, not Marino, is the odd man out who ends up getting traded.

I disagree with both of those things:

Firstly, I don’t think it’s practical for us to find a replacement in-season via a second trade to replace Marino. I also cannot conceive of who we could sign this summer to replace Marino who would make the same or less money.

Secondly, I also don’t believe Pettersson is in Sullivan’s dog house. I think it is a case of (A) the Penguins wanting to both reward Friedman’s good play and also give him some more games to evaluate him to see how effective he may be in terms of depth for this season or possibly extending him for the future; and (B) experimenting with different pairings to see how guys may work together if the pairings get mixed up in the event of a trade or injury.

Pettersson may not be lighting the world on fire, but he’s been pretty solid and steady this year and better than he was last year.

There’s also a chance they’re keeping him out of the lineup to avoid injury in the event that he may be a piece that gets moved in a deal with VAN or someone else.

That said, I still think Pettersson is the guy who is most sensible to move and if VAN is not interested, it could be a 3 way deal if we’re doing something with VAN, or we just move him to another team who is looking for help on the left side — of which there are a handful, including non-playoff teams.

 

[orby]

I disagree with both of those things:

Firstly, I don’t think it’s practical for us to find a replacement in-season via a second trade to replace Marino. I also cannot conceive of who we could sign this summer to replace Marino who would make the same or less money.

Secondly, I also don’t believe Pettersson is in Sullivan’s dog house. I think it is a case of (A) the Penguins wanting to both reward Friedman’s good play and also give him some more games to evaluate him to see how effective he may be in terms of depth for this season or possibly extending him for the future; and (B) experimenting with different pairings to see how guys may work together if the pairings get mixed up in the event of a trade or injury.

Pettersson may not be lighting the world on fire, but he’s been pretty solid and steady this year and better than he was last year.

There’s also a chance they’re keeping him out of the lineup to avoid injury in the event that he may be a piece that gets moved in a deal with VAN or someone else.

That said, I still think Pettersson is the guy who is most sensible to move and if VAN is not interested, it could be a 3 way deal if we’re doing something with VAN, or we just move him to another team who is looking for help on the left side — of which there are a handful, including non-playoff teams.

I think the Pens would be worse off for trading Marino, I just don't know if the organization feels the same way. Right now they are in desperate need of capable wingers for the second line and I think Hextall knows it; whether he's willing to trade a good young defenseman in Marino to make it happen is anyone's guess.

If the Pens could get an upgrade on the wing by trading Pettersson, I'd be all for it, since he plays in an internally replaceable position unlike Marino. But I'm not sure his value is as high as Marino's.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would absolutely not trade Marino for Garland. A 2nd pair D for a 2nd liner may seem fair on paper, but equivalent RD are substantially more valuable than wingers.

Garland is a terrific player on a fair contract, but the Penguins could absolutely get a better winger than Garland if they're dangling Marino. At least if we're talking Boeser, it's a fairly reasonable bet that he'd be a 30+ goal, 65+ point guy in Pittsburgh. Garland's just what Penguins fans expected Kapanen to be, a 20 goal, 50 point 2nd liner.

 

[Gurglesons]

Garland for Marino seems fair in a vacuum. But if the Penguins are moving Marino in season, I think it is only for a player Iike Boeser who has the opportunity to be an elite talent versus Garland.

 

[jmelm]

I would absolutely not trade Marino for Garland. A 2nd pair D for a 2nd liner may seem fair on paper, but equivalent RD are substantially more valuable than wingers.

Garland is a terrific player on a fair contract, but the Penguins could absolutely get a better winger than Garland if they're dangling Marino. At least if we're talking Boeser, it's a fairly reasonable bet that he'd be a 30+ goal, 65+ point guy in Pittsburgh. Garland's just what Penguins fans expected Kapanen to be, a 20 goal, 50 point 2nd liner.

Garland is about a million times better than Kapanen. I’m not saying we should trade Marino for him, but Garland is FAR better — a more complete 200ft and consistent offensive player — than KK.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Garland is about a million times better than Kapanen. I’m not saying we should trade Marino for him, but Garland is FAR better — a more complete 200ft and consistent offensive player — than KK.

That's not the point of what I was trying to say and this is just needlessly arguing for the sake of arguing.

Garland's a 20 goal, 50 point 2nd liner. That's what the Penguins expected Kapanen to be, and basically what he was for the Penguins until he forgot how to play hockey a few months ago.

 

[jmelm]

That's not the point of what I was trying to say and this is just needlessly arguing for the sake of arguing.

Garland's a 20 goal, 50 point 2nd liner. That's what the Penguins expected Kapanen to be, and basically what he was for the Penguins until he forgot how to play hockey a few months ago.

I don’t understand the point of what you’re trying to say, which comes down to this:

The Penguins expected Kapanen to be a 20G/50P guy, and he hasn’t achieved that — and therefore we should NOT trade for a guy who can actually achieve what Kapanen was not able to?

When you have someone who is not fulfilling their role, you replace them with someone who can. There’s no other way to interpret your statement.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don’t understand the point of what you’re trying to say, which comes down to this:

The Penguins expected Kapanen to be a 20G/50P guy, and he hasn’t achieved that — and therefore we should NOT trade for a guy who can actually achieve what Kapanen was not able to?

When you have someone who is not fulfilling their role, you replace them with someone who can. There’s no other way to interpret your statement.

I'm not trading John Marino for basically a Kapanen do-over. That's the point of what I posted.

In Kapanen's first 82 games in Pittsburgh, he had 20 goals and 54 points. I'm not sinking an asset on par with Marino to replace Kapanen because Kapanen has stunk for 2 months. If I'm trading Marino, I'm aiming way higher than just getting a do-over on Kapanen.

That paragraph pretty clearly said that so I don't understand why you're confused.

 

[jmelm]

I'm not trading John Marino for basically a Kapanen do-over. That's the point of what I posted.

In Kapanen's first 82 games in Pittsburgh, he had 20 goals and 54 points. I'm not sinking an asset on par with Marino to replace Kapanen because Kapanen has stunk for 2 months. If I'm trading Marino, I'm aiming way higher than just getting a do-over on Kapanen.

That paragraph pretty clearly said that so I don't understand why you're confused.

I also said I wouldn’t trade Marino for Garland, but calling the latter a duplicate of Kapanen is way off and he’s a guy I absolutely would move other players/assets for.

Also, Kapanen has been poor for longer than 2 months: he’s been disappointing this entire season outside of a few games like the one where he had a hat trick. IF Kapanen is going to realize on his potential or at least become that 20G/50P player, it’s not going to happen on this team. Also, when he’s not scoring, he’s not bringing anything else to the table. He needs to go to a different team for a fresh start, whether that means he’s directly used as an asset in a trade for another winger, or he’s moved in a separate deal. We need to recoup whatever value we possibly can on him, and we need his cap space to bring someone else in.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I also said I wouldn’t trade Marino for Garland, but calling the latter a duplicate of Kapanen is way off and he’s a guy I absolutely would move other players/assets for.

Also, Kapanen has been poor for longer than 2 months: he’s been disappointing this entire season outside of a few games like the one where he had a hat trick. IF Kapanen is going to realize on his potential or at least become that 20G/50P player, it’s not going to happen on this team. Also, when he’s not scoring, he’s not bringing anything else to the table. He needs to go to a different team for a fresh start, whether that means he’s directly used as an asset in a trade for another winger, or he’s moved in a separate deal. We need to recoup whatever value we possibly can on him, and we need his cap space to bring someone else in.

Kapanen had 9 goals and 24 points in his first 40 games this year. That's an 18 goal, 49 point pace. Which is basically the expectation for him: a 20 goal, 50 point player.

This is arguing for the sake of arguing. If Kapanen would be playing at his expected level, they wouldn't need Garland in the first place, so I'm absolutely not trading Marino to effectively bring in a Kapanen replacement.

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

Curious about Bertuzzi.
Is he still un-vaxxed?
Can't see a team wanting to take him on for the playoffs with the whole no crossing the border thing.
Imagine getting him then playing Toronto. Oouch

 

[jmelm]

Kapanen had 9 goals and 24 points in his first 40 games this year. That's an 18 goal, 49 point pace. Which is basically the expectation for him: a 20 goal, 50 point player.

This is arguing for the sake of arguing. If Kapanen would be playing at his expected level, they wouldn't need Garland in the first place, so I'm absolutely not trading Marino to effectively bring in a Kapanen replacement.

Arguing for the sake of arguing? This is now the THIRD time saying (just in the last hour on this page, in addition to other posts saying the same thing) that I would NOT trade Marino for Garland.

Here, I'll say it again for the fourth time: I would NOT trade Marino for Garland.

On to Kapanen -- you can throw whatever stats you want to about the first 40 games, but Kapanen has SUCKED for us all season. He wasn't good for us in the first 40 games, and he hasn't been good since. It's not just the last 19 games that he's sucked, and it's not just about his goal & assist totals, which are pathetic for a second liner who's been given the opportunity he has been, especially if you remove that one game where he fluke-scored the hat trick.

Literally the only time Kapanen has been good this year was in the pre-season, but once the regular season started, he has stunk, irrespective of his G or P totals.

This team, and Malkin specifically, needs a better winger than Kapanen, period. Garland is not the prototypical winger I would hope for (and neither is Boeser btw), but the options are very slim this year. So considering he is a VAST improvement over Kapanen, I would absolutely pony up a pretty darn good offer for him (one that does NOT include Marino just so you know).

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Feel like this is more of a debate for pens fans… Canuck fans are not totally sold on moving garland, period. We’d be more open to moving Boeser.

 

[66-30-33]

Garland is a better fit but Boeser is more of a NEED.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Garland is a better fit but Boeser is more of a NEED.

I think the better question is who is a better fit with Geno? Because ultimately that's what the Pens need. Doesn't matter which player is "better", but which one plays a game that will fit best with Geno.

Or alternatively, if Rust stays with Geno, which player would fit better with Sid/Guentzel. Again, not which player is "better", but which player plays a style that would fit better with either of the Pens' top two centers.

 

[Petes2424]

Bertuzzi would be the much better acquisition. Probably cost a pretty penny but he brings a different dimension to the ice. He’s a snake, pest, etc, but he does it within the rules really.. All while putting his name on the scoresheet.

 

[Victor Z]

I think the better question is who is a better fit with Geno? Because ultimately that's what the Pens need. Doesn't matter which player is "better", but which one plays a game that will fit best with Geno.

Or alternatively, if Rust stays with Geno, which player would fit better with Sid/Guentzel. Again, not which player is "better", but which player plays a style that would fit better with either of the Pens' top two centers.

Is it possible that the sudden and unexpected move of Rust to Geno's line was made in order to find out how well that works, so that if it does the RW trade target would be someone to play with CROSBY?

OTOH, if that were really the case the shift of Rusty to L2 should have been done sooner in order to evaluate its success for more than 1 or 2 games prior to the trade deadline. Also OTOH though, this is a Mike Sullivan-coached team, which means line combos are set in stone before the season starts and only something catastrophic can alter them (explaining why this wasn't done sooner). Furthermore, if Rust-Malkin is a new Sully "duo" then we really do need a RW for Sid and Jake because Rodrigues and Simon sure as hell aren't it.

 

[Peter Griffin]

This team, and Malkin specifically, needs a better winger than Kapanen, period. Garland is not the prototypical winger I would hope for (and neither is Boeser btw), but the options are very slim this year. So considering he is a VAST improvement over Kapanen, I would absolutely pony up a pretty darn good offer for him (one that does NOT include Marino just so you know).

Curious, what sort of offer would you be willing to make for Garland?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Decent player but man he got overrated. Remember everyone freaked out when the Coyotes traded him like they traded away Auston Matthews or something.