Rumor: Penguins targeting Garland in talks with Vancouver

[jmelm]

NHL Network is a joke and always 3 weeks behind on rumors.

Perhaps they are, but Pagnotta is not a joke. He's definitely legit in general.

I wouldn't get Garland. Tiny forwards aren't the best for playoffs except for Theo Fleury or Martin St-Louis. Otherwise a hockey trade Guarianov for Kapanen seems even

Sure, the Pens would love a guy who produces as much as Garland but who's 6'3 220 lbs, but that's not available to us, and Garland is a better fit for our style than Boeser is. There is zero suggestion that Gurianov is available, so I'm not sure what relevance that has to this conversation.

 

[Trade]

Garland for Marino seems the most fair trade. Similar contracts, age, and contributions.

But one is an undersized wing and one is a normal-sized top four RD…the value is definitely in Marino’s favor.

A straight up swap would be pretty awful. I doubt Marino goes anywhere.

 

[Fatass]

But one is an undersized wing and one is a normal-sized top four RD…the value is definitely in Marino’s favor.

A straight up swap would be pretty awful. I doubt Marino goes anywhere.

Isn't Marino about 180 lbs? I agree that any trade scenarios we come up with on hf are highly unlikely to happen in reality.

 

[frederixx]

Lmao… you’re completely unaware of how far that actually is from a playoff spot. And where the team is competitively

Right? Everytime you have a chance to make the playoffs, you go for it. Garland is also signed for 4 more years, so i don't see the rush here. But it's OK if you fans already gave up on your team. I know i wouldn't. Look at the Habs last year, anything can happen.

 

[Trade]

Isn't Marino about 180 lbs? I agree that any trade scenarios we come up with on hf are highly unlikely to happen in reality.

Yeah, listed at 6’1” 181 lbs. I like Garland, it’s more about the Pens not exactly being deep on RD after Marino/Letang. So that kind of move makes little sense in my eyes.

 

[jmelm]

Sure he would, at one point in time they used Kunitz/Hornqvist tag teaming in and out on the #1 PP unit. That also brings to the point of players being on the ice to draw those PP's and gives the flexibility to put the fresh guy in. Boeser also works the LW boards and does net front/bumper position. Boeser also would flat out have the best shot out of Jake, Bryan and him. They'd be a fool to not switch him in regularly. It makes it hard for teams to key in on tendencies. If one particular guy isn't having the best game could figure in who gets the time.

Also, that size Boeser has is a huge factor, and willing to be in those dirty areas and not be moved easily.

Contracts stand at Garland for 4 years just under 5.0 whereas, Boeser you can sign for 7 years at around 6.5 per and work the term to get that cap hit by either signing bonuses or front loading. All while having a true backup incase Rust walks.

Garland 5'10" 165 lbs. 5 on 5 more a passer and moderate scorer. Great skater.
or
Boeser 6'1" 208 lbs. who's a PP guy with a great shot who scores goals. Pure goal scorer.

What do you think the Pens have more of?

They are looking for more goals from the secondary players, passing isn't exactly the problem.



You know, Malkin isn't the greatest skater, either. Neither is Pavelski, but at the end of the day the score sheet does matter and certain players make it work by having a good hockey IQ on where to be and what to do. That's faster than any given skater or puck. Get from point A to point B without taking detours.

Fast does not always equal skating.

Malkin isn't a great skater? Ok, he may not be as fast as he was when he was 23, but he has never, ever had issues with his skating. On the contrary.

Garland may not be as big as Boeser, but he plays as big or bigger than Boeser. He also brings a more consistent work ethic and 200 ft game. And we don't necessarily need a guy that's going to score 30 G but has more holes in his game. We need someone who is a consistent offensive producer unlike the up & down Kapanen & Rodrigues, and Garland has been extremely consistent for a few years now.

 

[kanucks25]

You know, Malkin isn't the greatest skater, either. Neither is Pavelski, but at the end of the day the score sheet does matter and certain players make it work by having a good hockey IQ on where to be and what to do. That's faster than any given skater or puck. Get from point A to point B without taking detours.

Fast does not always equal skating.

You don't have to tell me, I'm a Canucks fan, and I like Boeser.

I was just responding to the statement that "Boeser is not a slow skater" because it's inaccurate.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

As a Canucks fan I'd easily take Garland over Boeser.

 

[kanucks25]

This is why I suggested $1M retention. Some may question his value at $4M, but at $3M it's a very different story. VAN could always keep him or flip him to another team (or perhaps it's a 3 way).

I'm just proposing Pettersson at $3M because I don't believe the Pens will move Marino.

Even at 3M, it doesn't work for us.

We have OEL at 7M+
Myers at 6M
Hamonic at 3M
Poolman at 2.5M

These guys are all overpaid.

We can't afford to pay depth D-men anything more than minimum/rookie type salary.

 

[Ryder71]

Garland is more a Sullivan player than Boeser, plain and simple.

 

[Ryder71]

I'm hoping for Garland and Schenn. Wonder what that would cost. KK and Marino?

 

[jmelm]

Even at 3M, it doesn't work for us.

We have OEL at 7M+
Myers at 6M
Hamonic at 3M
Poolman at 2.5M

These guys are all overpaid.

We can't afford to pay depth D-men anything more than minimum/rookie type salary.

As I said, you can always flip him for another asset or bring in a 3rd team.

But I also know that VAN is looking to upgrade from Poolman and Hamonic. I'm not saying that's going to be easy, but Pettersson is certainly better than either of those 2 guys. So if VAN is able to move them out, Pettersson would fit in just fine.

So don't look at this so narrowly just as of today. It would open up more options for them with other deals, now or later.

 

[Hierso]

Allvin was either the head European scout or director of scouting when the Penguins drafted Kapanen back in 2014, and JR was the guy who drafted him (and tried to trade up with Nashville to take him at #11 overall). Then JR traded pick #15 and a recent 2nd round prospect for him in 2020. Not really hard to see why the management loves him.

I'll actually try to find the video on that trade-up thing as well. From what I recall, JR had a deal lined up to trade Paul Martin to Colorado for pick #23, and JR wanted to include picks #22 and #23 in the Neal-Hornqvist trade to get the #11 overall pick and guarantee he get Kapanen. The trade in reality was Neal for Hornqvist and Spaling, JR wanted it to be Neal and picks #22 and #23 for Hornqvist, Spaling and pick #11.

Edit: found an article about it:

Get a behind-the-scenes look at the James Neal trade from David Poile's perspective

Nashville Predators GM David Poile was wearing a mic during the first round of the NHL draft, so we get an over-the-shoulder look at how the James Neal trade went down with the Pittsburgh Penguins. What do you take away from these negotiations?

thehockeynews.com

Neat, thanks for the info.

Rutherford drafted Kapanen, and although he traded him away in the Kessel deal, he traded a first round pick to get him back. I think it's safe to say he's a fan, although how much of a fan remains to be seen. In any case, he's definitely not shy about making big offers for players with whom he is enamored.

I don't have a horse in this race but moving Garland in a trade for Kapanen feels like such wierd move with Kapanen needing a new deal after this season and i don't really see them saving much (if any any) cap in this deal.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

I apologize to Canucks and Penguins fans for making another Penguins-Canucks thread, but I just saw this from last night. The Penguins are mostly targeting guys with term and the discussions with Vancouver have mostly been around Garland, not Boeser or Miller.

Will outright say it won’t be for kapanen or Pettersson…

 

[Bettman Returnz]

My offer would be Pettersson (retaining up to $1M if necessary) + Kapanen + 1st round pick

Keep Pettersson out of the deal. No thanks. Unless you’re taking poolman or Myers back.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Will outright say it won’t be for kapanen or Pettersson…

Pettersson no, I don't see any way the Canucks can make him work.

I would expect Kapanen to be included in the trade, and whether he would be the "main piece" depends on how you'd view someone like Joseph. I don't think it would he Kapanen, Joseph and a 1st, but I can see Kapanen, Joseph and a decently significant third piece being the Penguins offer.

The issue with this trade, as it has been discussed already, is that the Penguins don't have that many attractive assets that they'd be willing to trade and the Canucks would want. Their best assets are Kapanen, Petterrson, Poulin, Joseph and draft picks, and those assets look pretty unremarkable to me.

The Penguins best prospects are goalies (they have quite a few good goalie prospects), guys who project as middle-6 forwards at best and Joseph.

 

[jmelm]

Keep Pettersson out of the deal. No thanks. Unless you’re taking poolman or Myers back.

Sure, we could take Myers, provided you retain some money on him. Otherwise the cap doesn't work.

 

[jmelm]

Pettersson no, I don't see any way the Canucks can make him work.

I would expect Kapanen to be included in the trade, and whether he would be the "main piece" depends on how you'd view someone like Joseph. I don't think it would he Kapanen, Joseph and a 1st, but I can see Kapanen, Joseph and a decently significant third piece being the Penguins offer.

The issue with this trade, as it has been discussed already, is that the Penguins don't have that many attractive assets that they'd be willing to trade and the Canucks would want. Their best assets are Kapanen, Petterrson, Poulin, Joseph and draft picks, and those assets look pretty unremarkable to me.

The Penguins best prospects are goalies (they have quite a few good goalie prospects), guys who project as middle-6 forwards at best and Joseph.

This issues for us are:

- Friedman is not yet re-signed/extended, so we can't be giving up cheap Dmen like POJ unless we have a plan to do so.

- If necessary, we could retain up to $1M on Petterson, and replace him with POJ next year. That would still equate to a $2.3M savings against the cap for us, and Pettersson at $3M is MUCH more attractive to other teams than he is at $4M.

- At the end of the day, we don't truly know exactly what the Pens staff thinks of POJ, Poulin or other prospects. They may really love and believe in those guys, or they may not, we just don't know for sure.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Sure, we could take Myers, provided you retain some money on him. Otherwise the cap doesn't work.

Not sure retention makes sense on our end either… we’d end up paying around the same for similar caliber player.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Malkin isn't a great skater? Ok, he may not be as fast as he was when he was 23, but he has never, ever had issues with his skating. On the contrary.

Garland may not be as big as Boeser, but he plays as big or bigger than Boeser. He also brings a more consistent work ethic and 200 ft game. And we don't necessarily need a guy that's going to score 30 G but has more holes in his game. We need someone who is a consistent offensive producer unlike the up & down Kapanen & Rodrigues, and Garland has been extremely consistent for a few years now.

You don't think Geno for a decade or more of having to circle back to get momentum to look like he's fast maybe means he's actually slow from the startup position?

Sure, once he doubles back to get momentum he's fast. Who wouldn't be.

The fact he has to be more east/west and having to dangle through players rather than blow by them should be some clarity Geno was never really "fast" to begin with.

You don't have to tell me, I'm a Canucks fan, and I like Boeser.

I was just responding to the statement that "Boeser is not a slow skater" because it's inaccurate.

I think we are on the same page, and like above, you can see speed can be manufactured with momentum. I'm pretty sure I have seen plenty of video where the above holds true even with Boeser skating down the RW and doing well enough.

 

[jmelm]

Not sure retention makes sense on our end either… we’d end up paying around the same for similar caliber player.

This is why it would have to be more than 1 deal. Whether that means Pittsburgh trading Pettersson for X and including that to VAN, making it a 3 way trade, VAN sending out Myers in a separate deal, etc.

Myers + Garland equals $11M. Kapanen + Pettersson = $7.2M, and the Pens can't add almost $4M to their cap.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This issues for us are:

- Friedman is not yet re-signed/extended, so we can't be giving up cheap Dmen like POJ unless we have a plan to do so.

- If necessary, we could retain up to $1M on Petterson, and replace him with POJ next year. That would still equate to a $2.3M savings against the cap for us, and Pettersson at $3M is MUCH more attractive to other teams than he is at $4M.

- At the end of the day, we don't truly know exactly what the Pens staff thinks of POJ, Poulin or other prospects. They may really love and believe in those guys, or they may not, we just don't know for sure.

You can add defensemen in other trades or free agent signings, though. If they trade POJ right now and let Friedman walk, they still have Dumoulin, Pettersson and Matheson under contract for next year. I also imagine Friedman would be pretty easy to re-sign.

POJ is a luxury that the Penguins could afford to trade. He plays a position the team is super deep in and brings a skillset that is already provided by the defensemen they already have. He'd be useful for Vancouver because of what he brings, but he's super redundant in Pittsburgh.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Let's make it abundantly clear that Vancouver is not going to solve their RD issues from the Pens. Are we now into 3 team territory to bridge the gap here?

JR/Alvin are well versed in it.

Who would be that 3rd party participant who could bring that RD element for Vancouver?

Anaheim?
Arizona?
Montreal?

Is there others?

 

[jmelm]

You can add defensemen in other trades or free agent signings, though. If they trade POJ right now and let Friedman walk, they still have Dumoulin, Pettersson and Matheson under contract for next year. I also imagine Friedman would be pretty easy to re-sign.

POJ is a luxury that the Penguins could afford to trade. He plays a position the team is super deep in and brings a skillset that is already provided by the defensemen they already have. He'd be useful for Vancouver because of what he brings, but he's super redundant in Pittsburgh.

You didn't mention Marino as being under contract for next year, so I'm not sure if you're impying he moves in this deal or in another.

And the fact of the matter is, we cannot have Pettersson + Marino + Matheson + Dumoulin + Letang (who we should be aiming to retain), AND still be able to sign Malkin and Rust (who we should be aiming to retain).

Our path to retaining Letang, Malkin & Rust entails moving at least one of those other Dmen, and Kapanen, and possibly Zucker as well (especially if we did bring in one of Garland or Boeser).

If, on the other hand, your plan includes letting go of one of Malkin, Letang or Rust next year, then we will no longer be contenders, and that's overall just a strategy I don't agree with and trying to achieve with my proposals for this year and next.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Letang’s a UFA after this season so the Pens would have to make sure to replace Marino if they teade Marino. I just don’t see it.