Rumor: Penguins targeting Garland in talks with Vancouver

[RationalExpectations]

So the Canucks are 3pts out of the playoffs and they will sell all their top guys, right? True warriors

Exactly why I don t see it happening. VAN is 3 points behind EDM and VGK which have not been very consistent teams, NSH can also have a losing streak…

 

[66-30-33]

Marino for Garland is probably fair-ish. They're on similar contracts - Marino makes about half a mil less against the cap, but is signed for a year longer. They're both guys in their mid 20's with a lot of upside. The only caveat I'd have with this trade is the Pens would immediately need to trade someone else for a defenseman to replace Marino.

Mans....oh yeah, he's an Av now.

 

[kanucks25]

So the Canucks are 3pts out of the playoffs and they will sell all their top guys, right? True warriors

Dallas is potentially 8 points ahead of us if they win their games in hand, and Winnipeg is right there with us.

We're still a long-shot, especially now that Pettersson is injured again.

How aggressive we are may depend on the results over the next few games.

 

[SEALBound]

Brock Boeser and Schenn for Marino, Kapanen and two 2nds

No. Boeser and Marino are equal assets. Schenn isn't worth Kapanen and 2 2nds. Not a chance.

 

[Hierso]

Marino for Garland is probably fair-ish. They're on similar contracts - Marino makes about half a mil less against the cap, but is signed for a year longer. They're both guys in their mid 20's with a lot of upside. The only caveat I'd have with this trade is the Pens would immediately need to trade someone else for a defenseman to replace Marino.

Kapanen+futures for Garland is also an appealing idea, although the Pens don't have many futures to spare.

I really think that Vancouver are targeting an RD if they are going to trade either Boeser or Garland. Kapanen for Garland feels like such an odd move (alltough i've heard that the new managment over in Vancouver loves Kapanen for some reason).

 

[Breakers]

NHL Network is a joke and always 3 weeks behind on rumors.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I really think that Vancouver are targeting an RD if they are going to trade either Boeser or Garland. Kapanen for Garland feels like such an odd move (alltough i've heard that the new managment over in Vancouver loves Kapanen for some reason).

Allvin was either the head European scout or director of scouting when the Penguins drafted Kapanen back in 2014, and JR was the guy who drafted him (and tried to trade up with Nashville to take him at #11 overall). Then JR traded pick #15 and a recent 2nd round prospect for him in 2020. Not really hard to see why the management loves him.

I'll actually try to find the video on that trade-up thing as well. From what I recall, JR had a deal lined up to trade Paul Martin to Colorado for pick #23, and JR wanted to include picks #22 and #23 in the Neal-Hornqvist trade to get the #11 overall pick and guarantee he get Kapanen. The trade in reality was Neal for Hornqvist and Spaling, JR wanted it to be Neal and picks #22 and #23 for Hornqvist, Spaling and pick #11.

Edit: found an article about it:

Get a behind-the-scenes look at the James Neal trade from David Poile's perspective

Nashville Predators GM David Poile was wearing a mic during the first round of the NHL draft, so we get an over-the-shoulder look at how the James Neal trade went down with the Pittsburgh Penguins. What do you take away from these negotiations?

thehockeynews.com

The Preds really, really like Kevin Fiala, who they plucked 11th overall. And that kept the Neal deal from being a little bigger. Poile talks about how Penguins GM Jim Rutherford was willing to trade two first-rounders for Nashville’s 11th pick, but the Preds wanted to draft the quality player instead of increasing their quantity of first round prospects.

“The guy we want to get, you got me thinking that this was going to be our next star player or something. I don’t want to trade out of this,” Poile says to his scouts.

Poile goes on to say the Swiss-born Fiala was on Nashville’s radar very early in the season. And when he goes back to talk to Rutherford, the Pens GM asks Poile about the trade without the picks, to which Poile replies “if you do it, I’ll do it.” And there you have it, a trade is born.

What was the deal Rutherford had lined up with the Avs? Poile said Rutherford could get Colorado’s pick, which he would trade to Nashville for No. 11. We may never know what Pittsburgh was going to send the other way.

 

[orby]

I really think that Vancouver are targeting an RD if they are going to trade either Boeser or Garland. Kapanen for Garland feels like such an odd move (alltough i've heard that the new managment over in Vancouver loves Kapanen for some reason).

Rutherford drafted Kapanen, and although he traded him away in the Kessel deal, he traded a first round pick to get him back. I think it's safe to say he's a fan, although how much of a fan remains to be seen. In any case, he's definitely not shy about making big offers for players with whom he is enamored.

 

[66-30-33]

Allvin was either the head European scout or director of scouting when the Penguins drafted Kapanen back in 2014, and JR was the guy who drafted him (and tried to trade up with Nashville to take him at #11 overall). Then JR traded pick #15 and a recent 2nd round prospect for him in 2020. Not really hard to see why the management loves him.

I'll actually try to find the video on that trade-up thing as well. From what I recall, JR had a deal lined up to trade Paul Martin to Colorado for pick #23, and JR wanted to include picks #22 and #23 in the Neal-Hornqvist trade to get the #11 overall pick and guarantee he get Kapanen. The trade in reality was Neal for Hornqvist and Spaling, JR wanted it to be Neal and picks #22 and #23 for Hornqvist, Spaling and pick #11.

Sucks what happened to that guy who went 15th overall.

 

[Love]

Current regime did not acquire him. So, very possible he could be moved. Just a matter of the two sides find a deal that makes sense.

I agree it does seem likely that they’ll move him. This however would be a terrible indictment on Rutherford/Allvin and a huge piece of evidence to indicate that the shitty hockey Canucks fans have been watching for almost a decade now will continue.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

So the Canucks are 3pts out of the playoffs and they will sell all their top guys, right? True warriors

Lol you have a very bad understanding of the context of the roster and what needs to be done. It’s always sad to see a misguided insult that is ignorant to the facts at hand.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

Interesting to see Bertuzzi on this list. Not sure Penguins have what the wings would want (Top 6 C young)

 

[Empoleon8771]

I agree it does seem likely that they’ll move him. This however would be a terrible indictment on Rutherford/Allvin and a huge piece of evidence to indicate that the shitty hockey Canucks fans have been watching for almost a decade now will continue.

Eh, JR's first trade with the Penguins was trading Neal for Hornqvist and Spaling. Neal just finished up his 2nd year of his 6 year, $5 million AAV deal and was riding a 40 goal, 80 point pace over the previous 3 seasons (178 points in 179 games). Spaling ended up a dud that was flipped a year later, but Hornqvist played absolutely massive roles in their cup wins, especially in 2016.

It's entirely possible that the trade ends up being bad for the Canucks, but I don't think trading a good player will by definition result in the Canucks being shitty going forward.

 

[Love]

Eh, JR's first trade with the Penguins was trading Neal for Hornqvist and Spaling. Neal just finished up his 2nd year of his 6 year, $5 million AAV deal and was riding a 40 goal, 80 point pace over the previous 3 seasons (178 points in 179 games). Spaling ended up a dud that was flipped a year later, but Hornqvist played absolutely massive roles in their cup wins, especially in 2016.

All of this is irrelevant

 

[Empoleon8771]

All of this is irrelevant

You said that trading Garland would be a huge piece of evidence that the shitty hockey the Canucks have seen will continue. I was pointing out a comparable trade that JR made that was a huge difference maker in the Penguins going from "playoff underachieving prima donnas" to back to back cup winners.

Trading a good player won't by definition show the Canucks will be shitty going forward. Trading good players while acquiring bad players will show that.

 

[Phil68]

I wouldn't get Garland. Tiny forwards aren't the best for playoffs except for Theo Fleury or Martin St-Louis. Otherwise a hockey trade Guarianov for Kapanen seems even

 

[Fatass]

Garland for Marino seems the most fair trade. Similar contracts, age, and contributions.

 

[Love]

You said that trading Garland would be a huge piece of evidence that the shitty hockey the Canucks have seen will continue. I was pointing out a comparable trade that JR made that was a huge difference maker in the Penguins going from "playoff underachieving prima donnas" to back to back cup winners.

Trading a good player won't by definition show the Canucks will be shitty going forward. Trading good players while acquiring bad players will show that.

Garland is nothing like James Neal. In fact, he’s about as opposite as you can get. Neal is a lazy wrist shot on skates who can only score on the power play. Garland is high end 5 on 5 producer with an elite motor.

In fact, Hornqvist is a much more comparable player to Garland than Neal is. So if JR trades Garland he simply has no idea what he’s doing. The absolute last thing this team needs is to trade a young cost controlled 5 on 5 producer. The Canucks need more Garlands not less. We already have Boeser, Pettersson, and Horvat
who rely so heavily on the PP to produce. Garland scores more at 5 on 5 than any of our forwards despite having less ice time that Miller/Horvat/Boeser/Pettersson. So I reiterate, trading Garland would be so f***ing stupid unless you’re getting a package so obscene from the Pens that you can’t say no. Trading Garland would go against everything this team needs right now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Garland is nothing like James Neal. In fact, he’s about as opposite as you can get. Neal is a lazy wrist shot on skates who can only score on the power play. Garland is high end 5 on 5 producer with an elite motor.

In fact, Hornqvist is a much more comparable player to Garland than Neal is. So if JR trades Garland he simply has no idea what he’s doing. The absolute last thing this team needs is to trade a young cost controlled 5 on 5 producer. The Canucks need more Garlands not less. We already have Boeser, Pettersson, and Horvat
who rely so heavily on the PP to produce. Garland scores more at 5 on 5 than any of our forwards despite having less ice time that Miller/Horvat/Boeser/Pettersson. So I reiterate, trading Garland would be so f***ing stupid unless you’re getting a package so obscene from the Pens that you can’t say no. Trading Garland would go against everything this team needs right now.

Neal was 14th in the NHL in 5v5 points/60 from 2011-2014, so your evaluation of Neal is just completely wrong.

I literally provided you an example of JR trading a young, cost controlled 5v5 producer that resulted in a significant win in the long run for the team. That may not happen with trading Garland, but saying any sort of Garland trade would show the new regime will continue the bad hockey is just dumb. It might end up sucking, or it might not. It's impossible to say without knowing what a trade would be.

Here was Neal's JFresh card from the time of the trade:



He was a downright terrific player analytically when with the Penguins, and he mostly continued as a great analytical player until the wheels fell off in Calgary.

 

[Phrasing]

Much rather give Boeser up and give his role on the PP to Garland.

 

[jmelm]

I think POJ makes more sense for Vancouver than Pettersson. Pettersson is expensive and has only played LD, while POJ is cheap and JR has claimed POJ can play RD.

That may be the case, but we know (per Friedman and Pagnotta) that VAN has expressed interest in Pettersson. Yes, he is expensive at $4M, but with $1M retained, he's good value at $3M even if he's a left D.

Although in a perfect world, we wouldn't retain on Petts, we may have to in this case to make it work better for VAN; and if we replaced Petts with POJ next year, it would still equate to a $2.3M savings on our defense against the cap.

 

[jmelm]

We can't afford Pettersson cap wise. Already have enough money invested in LD.

This is why I suggested $1M retention. Some may question his value at $4M, but at $3M it's a very different story. VAN could always keep him or flip him to another team (or perhaps it's a 3 way).

I'm just proposing Pettersson at $3M because I don't believe the Pens will move Marino.

 

[Ugene Magic]

He wouldn't be used on the PP here either. It's a positive that he can be productive ES, that's what the Pens are lacking. I'd take him over Boeser when you consider their contract status.

Sure he would, at one point in time they used Kunitz/Hornqvist tag teaming in and out on the #1 PP unit. That also brings to the point of players being on the ice to draw those PP's and gives the flexibility to put the fresh guy in. Boeser also works the LW boards and does net front/bumper position. Boeser also would flat out have the best shot out of Jake, Bryan and him. They'd be a fool to not switch him in regularly. It makes it hard for teams to key in on tendencies. If one particular guy isn't having the best game could figure in who gets the time.

Also, that size Boeser has is a huge factor, and willing to be in those dirty areas and not be moved easily.

Contracts stand at Garland for 4 years just under 5.0 whereas, Boeser you can sign for 7 years at around 6.5 per and work the term to get that cap hit by either signing bonuses or front loading. All while having a true backup incase Rust walks.

Garland 5'10" 165 lbs. 5 on 5 more a passer and moderate scorer. Great skater.
or
Boeser 6'1" 208 lbs. who's a PP guy with a great shot who scores goals. Pure goal scorer.

What do you think the Pens have more of?

They are looking for more goals from the secondary players, passing isn't exactly the problem.

Boeser is one of the worst skaters in the league.

You know, Malkin isn't the greatest skater, either. Neither is Pavelski, but at the end of the day the score sheet does matter and certain players make it work by having a good hockey IQ on where to be and what to do. That's faster than any given skater or puck. Get from point A to point B without taking detours.

Fast does not always equal skating.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

So the Canucks are 3pts out of the playoffs and they will sell all their top guys, right? True warriors

Lmao… you’re completely unaware of how far that actually is from a playoff spot. And where the team is competitively

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Nooo please move Brock instead