Rumor: Penguins targeting Garland in talks with Vancouver

[Nucklehead Supreme]

If Boeser had a reasonable extension, he wouldn't be getting traded. The presumption is he would be traded without one and the Canucks transfer the risk to the other team.

I assume that the Canucks are at the point of telling him "Hey Brock, no one is paying you your QO. The <insert team> is going to offer you $6x6 (or similar - not important, just an example). If you're willing to take that there, would you be interested in taking that here and staying?"

Yah I know that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

When did I say I could? You said RHD have substantially more value than a (signed to a reasonable extension) Boeser, my point was to counter that point, never said Boeser could get that.

That's not what I said.

I said RD have substantially more value than RW, in that if the players are equal, a RD will have substantially more value than a RW.

 

[Phil68]

Truly the ideal player is Tyler Bertuzi .

 

[Boondock]

This is why it would have to be more than 1 deal. Whether that means Pittsburgh trading Pettersson for X and including that to VAN, making it a 3 way trade, VAN sending out Myers in a separate deal, etc.

Myers + Garland equals $11M. Kapanen + Pettersson = $7.2M, and the Pens can't add almost $4M to their cap.

That deal makes the Canucks a worse team, Kapanen will need a new deal, and Pettersson is a LHD - so the Canucks move out their only top 4 RHD for a bottom pairing LHD and a lesser winger and maybe get $3 million in cap space for what?? That definitely doesn't get a top 4 RHD or a improvement on the wing long term. That is a step backwards for the Canucks.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

That's not what I said.

I said RD have substantially more value than RW, in that if the players are equal, a RD will have substantially more value than a RW.

Yah and my original point stands, a signed to a reasonable extension Boeser is worth more than Marino alone.

Is there something about Marino other than his position that makes him more valuable?

 

[orby]

Truly the ideal player is Tyler Bertuzi .

I don't think the Pens have the assets to land Bertuzzi in a trade.

 

[jmelm]

That deal makes the Canucks a worse team, Kapanen will need a new deal, and Pettersson is a LHD - so the Canucks move out their only top 4 RHD for a bottom pairing LHD and a lesser winger and maybe get $3 million in cap space for what?? That definitely doesn't get a top 4 RHD or a improvement on the wing long term. That is a step backwards for the Canucks.

I was responding to a post explaining why a Garland + Myers trade would NOT work. Try reading.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yah and my original point stands, a signed to a reasonable extension Boeser is worth more than Marino alone.

Is there something about Marino other than his position that makes him more valuable?

But he's not, it's pretty even straight up.

Marino's a #3 RD who plays in all situations and is signed to a reasonable contract long term. Those kind of guys have absolutely immense value. Boeser is a better winger than Marino is a defenseman, but the position difference there basically evens out the value between them.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

But he's not, it's pretty even straight up.

Marino's a #3 RD who plays in all situations and is signed to a reasonable contract long term. Those kind of guys have absolutely immense value. Boeser is a better winger than Marino is a defenseman, but the position difference there basically evens out the value between them.

I get where your coming from, I just disagree.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Garland can be a terrific player while not being worth Marino, you know.

I would absolutely never trade Marino for Garland. They may be equivalent players at each of their positions, but RD have substantially more value than RW do.

Marino for Boeser with a reasonable extension makes sense. Marino for Garland doesn't make sense. The Penguins can get better than a 20 goal, 50 point 2nd liner if they're dangling an asset on par with Marino.

You’re overvaluing Marino imo.

 

[TropicOfNoReturn]

Why does every Pens offer include Kapanen?
As a Canucks fan I don't have any interest in him and he could not be a key piece to major trade.
He is not young and has no more upside. What you see now is what you get.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You’re overvaluing Marino imo.

No, that's just the reality for how RD are valued in hockey.

Why does every Pens offer include Kapanen?
As a Canucks fan I don't have any interest in him and he could not be a key piece to major trade.
He is not young and has no more upside. What you see now is what you get.

Because the Penguins are a win-now team and Kapanen forgot how to play hockey 2 months ago.

If the Penguins keep him, I'm willing to bet he'll get back to his normal 20 goal, 50 point level. That's what he was in his first 80 games with the Penguins after all. They just don't have the luxury of being patient with him and seeing if he can bounce back.

 

[chethejet]

If the Pens can move Petts or Dumo for cap space and bring in a decent RD then yes I am willing to move Marino for Garland. the trade does 2 things, gives the Pens scoring on a second line a hedges Rust moving on. I still have Kap who can rebound here and if not he is a cheap RW as a UFA or Pens can move him in the off season.
Jake Sid Rust
Zucker Geno Garland
Heinen Carter E Rod/Mcginn
Reese TB ?

Dumo/Petts Letang
Matheson Schen
POJ? Ruhwedel

 

[Canadian Canuck]

No, that's just the reality for how RD are valued in hockey.



Because the Penguins are a win-now team and Kapanen forgot how to play hockey 2 months ago.

If the Penguins keep him, I'm willing to bet he'll get back to his normal 20 goal, 50 point level. That's what he was in his first 80 games with the Penguins after all. They just don't have the luxury of being patient with him and seeing if he can bounce back.

Not all RD are valued the same you're missing the point. Marino is a defensive defenseman. He provides no offense and does not play the PP. In that case how about Tyler Myers for Rust?

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Yah and my original point stands, a signed to a reasonable extension Boeser is worth more than Marino alone.

Is there something about Marino other than his position that makes him more valuable?

Has been playing heavy PK as well as heavy defensive zone starts for the Penguins even though he has some offensive flare and smarts.

 

[SEALBound]

Not all RD are valued the same you're missing the point. Marino is a defensive defenseman. He provides no offense and does not play the PP. In that case how about Tyler Myers for Rust?

False. This is the traditional "You don't watch Marino and only stat watch" reply.

 

[chethejet]

If the Pens can move Petts or Dumo for cap space and bring in a decent RD then yes I am willing to move Marino for Garland. the trade does 2 things, gives the Pens scoring on a second line a hedges Rust moving on. I still have Kap who can rebound here and if not he is a cheap RW as a UFA or Pens can move him in the off season.
Jake Sid Rust
Zucker Geno Garland
Heinen Carter Kap
Reese TB Mcginn?
E Rod
Dumo/Petts Letang
Matheson Schen
Freidman/ POJ Ruhwedel

 

[TropicOfNoReturn]

Because the Penguins are a win-now team and Kapanen forgot how to play hockey 2 months ago.

If the Penguins keep him, I'm willing to bet he'll get back to his normal 20 goal, 50 point level. That's what he was in his first 80 games with the Penguins after all. They just don't have the luxury of being patient with him and seeing if he can bounce back.

Makes sense. I get it from a Penguins perspective.

I guess my point is that a lot of the proposals seem to value him much higher than I think he should be.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not all RD are valued the same you're missing the point. Marino is a defensive defenseman. He provides no offense and does not play the PP. In that case how about Tyler Myers for Rust?

Yes, Marino is obviously comparable to the cap dump that is Tyler Myers

Marino is a defensive defenseman that puts up around 30 points per 82 games over his career and plays in all situations (and yes, he has plays on the PP, just the 2nd unit) against the toughest competition. That player has absolutely immense value. Comparing him to Myers, or Boeser to Rust for that matter, just shows how clueless you are here.

Marino for Boeser with a reasonable extension lined up is a reasonable deal because it's a #3 all situations defenseman with a reasonable contract for a top line winger with a reasonable contract, Boeser being better than Marino is negated out by the difference in value between the two positions. Myers is a borderline cap dump whose contract was horrible the second it was signed, and is only playing the role he is playing in Vancouver because they have no other options.

Like look at this player card, how are you even going to begin comparing Myers to Marino?

 

[nergish]

Oops. Wrong thread

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Yes, Marino is obviously comparable to the cap dump that is Tyler Myers

Marino is a defensive defenseman that puts up around 30 points per 82 games over his career and plays in all situations (and yes, he has plays on the PP, just the 2nd unit) against the toughest competition. That player has absolutely immense value. Comparing him to Myers, or Boeser to Rust for that matter, just shows how clueless you are here.

You thinking Boeser has more value than Garland makes you clueless not me lmao

 

[Empoleon8771]

You thinking Boeser has more value than Garland makes you clueless not me lmao

I never said that Boeser has more value than Garland?

I said that Boeser is better than Garland and the Penguins would be wanting a better player than Garland back for Marino.

 

[SEALBound]

Makes sense. I get it from a Penguins perspective.

I guess my point is that a lot of the proposals seem to value him much higher than I think he should be.

I mean, there are a lot of things that go into the valuation of players. I still believe Kapanen can be a consistent 25-25-50 guy if he meshes with the right guys. The skill level is there. When watching him lately, you can see the skill, the effort, the speed, the everything...but the synchronicity is off. That's the chaos theory of hockey and trying to solve the chemistry enigma. It happens all the time. And each fan base over values their own players and undervalues other because we all always want the better player, lol.

In this case, this is one of the clearer 1:1 equal value suggestions - Boeser for Marino - we've seen recently. I am maybe thinking the reason it hasn't happened is that Hextall believes Marino has more value than Boeser. With contract uncertainties, he may be right. He is likely suggesting Pettersson as the base which has Allvin going back to Boeser asking about a resign. If he can get Boeser to resign, it makes sending Garland out a lot more palatable. Then they can work a base like Petts+Kapanen for Garland+Schenn and then even it out with picks and prospects if needed.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Makes sense. I get it from a Penguins perspective.

I guess my point is that a lot of the proposals seem to value him much higher than I think he should be.

I think his value right now is probably only like a mid 2nd rounder. I don't think it's all that high, which is why I've said that the Penguins will likely be adding a lot on top of Kapanen to get any legitimate top-6 forwards.

If it's Boeser, you're probably looking at something like Kapanen, Joseph and a 1st for Boeser. I'd argue that Kapanen is the lowest value piece of those 3.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

I never said that Boeser has more value than Garland?

I said that Boeser is better than Garland and the Penguins would be wanting a better player than Garland back for Marino.

Garland is better than Boeser in my opinion. Especially 5v5. If you want more of a power play guy than Boeser is your man.