Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Le Magnifique 66]

Nothing I saw from Granlund's time here makes me think he'll be anything more than like a 30-35pt guy with this team, bungling things the entire way and failing to fit in anywhere. I don't have a clue how the guy was ever a 65pt player or a 25+ goal guy in Minny.

He can probably find some shit team to pad stats on by being fed big minutes and top PP time, but Granlund the player looked awful last season here and it was pretty universally laughed at when Hextall traded for him with no retention. Huge part of that is fit, and he doesn't fit anywhere, but man... He was a shitshow.

It's crazy, cause it's not like he was the product of players that were producing more than him and he just collected points, he actually was the teams leading scorer lol

 

[AuroraBorealis]

People are down on Granlund because of the whole "he's terrible" thing. Not because we're a bunch of big meanies. Dude had one goal in 21 games with the team and didn't look like he could fit anywhere even if you did some real stupid shit like gift him big minutes on PP1 and one of the top lines.

Like maybe you squeeze 50 points out of him that way (remember Rust had 40some and supposedly he's terrific) but you trainwreck the roster in doing so. Big win, there.

Is it stupid? He had 28 PPPs last year. That's more than Sid this year. There's a strong case to be made that he should be on PP1.
After seeing PP2 outplay PP1 last year, we should be more open-minded with exploring options.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Only so much money to go around. Zucker, Bertuzzi, Barbashev, Bunting

Not everyone is hitting 6 million

I'd be more than fine to settle for Bertuzzi or Bunting

 

[Zbynek]

Hellebuyck would be unreal in Pittsburgh.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Is it stupid? He had 28 PPPs last year. That's more than Sid this year. There's a strong case to be made that he should be on PP1.
After seeing PP2 outplay PP1 last year, we should be more open-minded with exploring options.

You know I appreciate ya buddy but yes... that would be stupid.

 

[Sideline]

What 30 plus contracts does that leave?

I think Zucker's mileage levels are okay. 628 games, 11 pro seasons is a lot, but he should be good for another 200-250 games, which takes this team to the end anyway. No major injuries where you're waiting for them to go again. Still a very good skater.

I just look at what he'll cost and the likely attritional costs and... well, hard to like it. Particularly when I want to see the team put some money in guys who might still have unexplored ceiling.

I mean yeah, I hate pretty much all the 30+ contracts greater than 1 year in term that aren't holding on to franchise defining guys like Crosby, Malkin, and Letang. Even those are probably not rational, but I am a sucker for the memories.

With that said, if a Hellebuyck type guy says he needs 7x7 to come play for the Penguins I hold my nose an sign the papers even though I expect to hate the last 2 or 3 years. It's the mid range "we need a top 6 forward/top 4 Damn" deals that ruin teams.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You know I appreciate ya buddy but yes... that would be stupid.

Even if he outplays who he's replacing?

 

[KrisLetAngry]

What 30 plus contracts does that leave?

I think Zucker's mileage levels are okay. 628 games, 11 pro seasons is a lot, but he should be good for another 200-250 games, which takes this team to the end anyway. No major injuries where you're waiting for them to go again. Still a very good skater.

I just look at what he'll cost and the likely attritional costs and... well, hard to like it. Particularly when I want to see the team put some money in guys who might still have unexplored ceiling.

He has scored more goals this season then his 2.3 seasons here in 1 season in a contract UFA year.

Zucker hasn't played a full season in the past 3 years.

He is not some super star we can be like that's fine. We need a reliable LW and I don't know if he will meet those needs. If he signs cheap and all other LW UFAs say no maybe we are forced to take him because he gives us a solid cap hit.

I like him I would want to keep him but the fact he had his 2nd best year ever at 31 in A new contract year gives me a lot of fears.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If this team re-signs Zucker they have learned exactly f***-all about f***-all.

I mean if he wants to jump on board for like 3.5 on a shorter term deal... gravy. But he won't so don't.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I mean yeah, I hate pretty much all the 30+ contracts greater than 1 year in term that aren't holding on to franchise defining guys like Crosby, Malkin, and Letang. Even those are probably not rational, but I am a sucker for the memories.

With that said, if a Hellebuyck type guy says he needs 7x7 to come play for the Penguins I hold my nose an sign the papers even though I expect to hate the last 2 or 3 years. It's the mid range "we need a top 6 forward/top 4 Damn" deals that ruin teams.

Franchise goalie type. I sign it and accept it.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Even if he outplays who he's replacing?

I do not have that kind of suspension of disbelief in me, I'm afraid.

The guy can't shoot the puck. That alone is a big ol "disqualified."

 

[Sideline]

If this team re-signs Zucker they have learned exactly f***-all about f***-all.

I mean if he wants to jump on board for like 3.5 on a shorter term deal... gravy. But he won't so don't.

Yup. He seems like a good guy, so I hope he gets his 5x5 or whatever stupid number, but from someone other than Pittsburgh. That deal will not age well for whoever signs it.

 

[66-30-33]

If this team re-signs Zucker they have learned exactly f***-all about f***-all.

I mean if he wants to jump on board for like 3.5 on a shorter term deal... gravy. But he won't so don't.

Zucker is Washington bound anyway.

Hellebuyck would be unreal in Pittsburgh.

He wants to win a cup though. LA should be all over that.

 

[chethejet]

I do think there will be changes and maybe some major ones coming. the focus is now so with two days of the buyout period, I buy him out. yes he will walk with 7 million but the gained cap space is valuable this year. 25 million and maybe seeing if Carter moves back to LA and he plays for the Kings and Pens retain 1.7 million. according to DK sports Jarry will not be back so that is the number one priority. Zucker can't be an long term deal here. Not sure what new FO can do but with a couple smart moves on fixing the D and getting bigger with more grit, is what I want here.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yup. He seems like a good guy, so I hope he gets his 5x5 or whatever stupid number, but from someone other than Pittsburgh. That deal will not age well for whoever signs it.

I thought he had a GREAT year and is a terrific, well-liked guy. I want to see him do well the rest of his career.

But that was a contract year performance, he's getting older, he has an extensive injury history and he profiles very similarly to the rest of the top six forwards already available. Red flags everywhere. Were Rust not a thing I would have a more serious think about it. But that's not how things are so too bad so sad.

EDIT: Also... top notch suit game.

 

[Peat]

He has scored more goals this season then his 2.3 seasons here in 1 season in a contract UFA year.

Zucker hasn't played a full season in the past 3 years.

He is not some super star we can be like that's fine. We need a reliable LW and I don't know if he will meet those needs. If he signs cheap and all other LW UFAs say no maybe we are forced to take him because he gives us a solid cap hit.

I like him I would want to keep him but the fact he had his 2nd best year ever at 31 in A new contract year gives me a lot of fears.

Zucker has had the worst injury luck in his career combined with his centre having the worst injury luck of his career in his time as a Penguin. I don't think he should be measured by it.

There's plenty of other reasons to be scared by the idea of bringing him back after all

Even if he outplays who he's replacing?

Given the emotional component of the game, quite possibly yes.

That said, I don't think he would. Statistically he wasn't a driver on Nashville's power play. He'd be a piece feeding off of our main PP pieces and his skill set does less to help them than a guy like Rakell as he has no shot, no forecheck, no net front, and adds nothing other than another guy who'll try to pass them to death.

If we had a bunch of shooters with no distributor, then I'd be clamouring for him to be on PP1. But it's the opposite.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I do not have that kind of suspension of disbelief in me, I'm afraid.

The guy can't shoot the puck. That alone is a big ol "disqualified."

The guy that can actually make high percentage passes under pressure, preventing us from losing possession and fetching the puck 200 feet away over and over.
This PP's lack of zone time is like problem #1. You don't need to worry about shitty zone entries if you stay in the damn zone.

I think we should watch him play on the PP here before assuming he's shit at it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's crazy, cause it's not like he was the product of players that were producing more than him and he just collected points, he actually was the teams leading scorer lol

Yeah, I don't know how much time he was playing with Duchene and/or Forsberg in Nashville, but those guys scored 40+ goals apiece and Josi had nearly 100pts in 2021-22 so I think Granlund's stats might've been *pretty* heavily skewed because of that.

But man, what a f***ing idiotic trade target for this team. I don't really give a shit about the 2nd rounder as an asset, but Granlund's a pretty mediocre player, at best, and terrible at worst, who was an abysmal fit (like 40% of his production came on the PP iirc, small, no shot to speak of, terrible contract for this team to take on).

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Zucker has had the worst injury luck in his career combined with his centre having the worst injury luck of his career in his time as a Penguin. I don't think he should be measured by it.

There's plenty of other reasons to be scared by the idea of bringing him back after all



Given the emotional component of the game, quite possibly yes.

That said, I don't think he would. Statistically he wasn't a driver on Nashville's power play. He'd be a piece feeding off of our main PP pieces and his skill set does less to help them than a guy like Rakell as he has no shot, no forecheck, no net front, and adds nothing other than another guy who'll try to pass them to death.

If we had a bunch of shooters with no distributor, then I'd be clamouring for him to be on PP1. But it's the opposite.

I would try Sid as net front and him as right half-wall when things are going poorly. We'd get a larger proportion of goals from the bumper position, and we'd consistently have better screens.
I am more concerned about boosting our zone time than I am shooting, although both are big fixer-uppers and critical.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The guy that can actually make high percentage passes under pressure, preventing us from losing possession and fetching the puck 200 feet away over and over.
This PP's lack of zone time is like problem #1. You don't need to worry about shitty zone entries if you stay in the damn zone.

I think we should watch him play on the PP here before assuming he's shit at it.

I appreciate the attempt to have some flexible thinking here but I just do not see it.

Entries are a HUGE problem... he will not help there. His footspeed sucks... if anything he'll further hinder.

In a static situation his playmaking might be more useful. But this team already has better playmakers than him and they aren't exactly making magic on the top unit nonstop. I don't see why Granlund would fare any better. You are also making things easier on the penalty killers who know he is a one trick pony... there is no shooting threat there. At all.

Where do you even play him? One of the half walls? You take a way better player off RHW if there and he'd be wrong handed (for the powerplay) on the LHW. The point? Even worse? Down low? He's soft as butter... the idea of that guy around the net is even more comical than Jake doing it.

I'm sorry man but no.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yeah, I don't know how much time he was playing with Duchene and/or Forsberg in Nashville, but those guys scored 40+ goals apiece and Josi had nearly 100pts in 2021-22 so I think Granlund's stats might've been *pretty* heavily skewed because of that.

At some point I think I'll watch those Nashville PP goals, see how it went and get back to you guys on that.

The bar isn't high for our PP1. Even options that initially seem sketchy should be considered.

 

[Peat]

I would try Sid as net front and him as right half-wall when things are going poorly. We'd get a larger proportion of goals from the bumper position, and we'd consistently have better screens.
I am more concerned about boosting our zone time than I am shooting, although both are big fixer-uppers and critical.

I would be very surprised if they stick the soon to be 36 year old face of the franchise with a non-squeaky clean head injury history in at net front in any circumstances.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I appreciate the attempt to have some flexible thinking here but I just do not see it.

Entries are a HUGE problem... he will not help there. His footspeed sucks... if anything he'll further hinder.

In a static situation his playmaking might be more useful. But this team already has better playmakers than him and they aren't exactly making magic on the top unit nonstop. I don't see why Granlund would fare any better. You are also making things easier on the penalty killers who know he is a one trick pony... there is no shooting threat there. At all.

Where do you even play him? One of the half walls? You take a way better player off RHW if there and he'd be wrong handed (for the powerplay) on the LHW. The point? Even worse? Down low? He's soft as butter... the idea of that guy around the net is even more comical than Jake doing it.

I'm sorry man but no.

Sid was not good on the half-wall at all last year. Turnover city, and flashy low % nonsense. Poor goal count. I'm not scared to move him to net-front at all, given our dire need for a good one.

He may be better at half-wall next year but if he's not it should definitely be on the table.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

At some point I think I'll watch those Nashville PP goals, see how it went and get back to you guys on that.

The bar isn't high for our PP1. Even options that initially seem sketchy should be considered.

Yeah, I mean, he was playing with some elite production guys in Nashville. He ain't gonna be playing with guys like that on the Penguins, at ES or on the PP. He's not usurping anybody in the PP hierarchy of Sid, Geno, Jake, Rust (or Rakell, or whoever this team gets to replace Zucker, or even Carter whose only asset left is his shot) or Letang.

Sid was not good on the half-wall at all last year. Turnover city, and flashy low % nonsense. Poor goal count. I'm not scared to move him to net-front at all, given our dire need for a good one.

He may be better at half-wall next year but if he's not it should definitely be on the table.

Uhhh, you should absolutely be scared to put Sid in the firing line of shots from Kris "high and wide" Letang, all the while getting beat to shit from crosschecks around the crease.

This team's a lengthy Sid injury away from a top-5 pick imo.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

We aren't PUNISHING the top unit here, guys. We're trying to fix it.

I get it... you guys think Sid/Geno/Letang run the whole show and throw big hissy fits when it's even implied that they split up the units. I mean... despite the fact they've done that many times in the past and it never actually fixes anything and in fact usually makes it worse.

But maybe they should try to actually do things like clean up their entries and coach up the powerplay a bit (something they admit they don't do) before force-jamming what is a borderline league journeyman onto the top unit. I have major qualms with multiple players tried up there but they are all far better in all facets of the game than Granlund.