Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Darren McCord]

Even buying him out makes no sense this off season, there isn't much anyway on the UFA market. At this point, have him play and hope he does well and teams come calling for him

I dont see him fitting in the top 6 and his money is better spent on other bottom 6. My dream is to get Barbashev and revamp the bottom 6.

Barbashev - Geno - Rust
Engvall - Kampf - Nylander
DOC - Poehling - Cater

You need money for that. This team doesn't have assets to make trades mid year. They need to make a splash in FA.

 

[66-30-33]

Granlund had 41 points during the season, 64 points the season before. I dunno how that screams negative value to me.

 

[Sideline]

Granlund had 41 points during the season, 64 points the season before. I dunno how that screams negative value to me.

Recency bias and the fans that saw him play those recent games probably didn't watch any of the games where he scored his 64.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Granlund's value isn't good because he's making a good chunk of money, with two years left, and doesn't really *do* anything. He has a decent enough pass and that's it. He's not a good skater, his shot sucks (and he never uses it), he's not big, he's not physical. He's like a weird PP passing specialist that isn't really all that spectacular at passing.

Again, he's not like absolutely bottom of the barrel like Jack Johnson or something, but he's not gonna be a guy you'll have teams lining up to acquire. You're likely going to have to retain (yuck) or part with somebody like POJ or a 3rd to get out of his cap hit. And with the amount of work this team needs, every bit of cap counts. Not having $8+ million tied up in Carter and Granlund for example goes a hell of a long way toward being able to make a big trade for a premiere scorer for Geno or landing multiple, quality depth pieces via FA like Barbashev, Bunting and Graves.

 

[Andy99]

I dont see him fitting in the top 6 and his money is better spent on other bottom 6. My dream is to get Barbashev and revamp the bottom 6.

Barbashev - Geno - Rust
Engvall - Kampf - Nylander
DOC - Poehling - Cater

You need money for that. This team doesn't have assets to make trades mid year. They need to make a splash in FA.

Engvall, Bunting or Barbashev…two of those three need to be Pens now!

Recency bias and the fans that saw him play those recent games probably didn't watch any of the games where he scored his 64.

Or they probably watched him put up assists on the top line in Nash and on the PP and realized he wasn’t going to do that on some other team with lesser minutes, no PP1 time and lesser line mates lol

 

[Sideline]

Or they probably watched him put up assists on the top line in Nash and on the PP and realized he wasn’t going to do that on some other team with lesser minutes, no PP1 time and lesser line mates lol

That makes him a bad fit here, not a worthless buyout scrub.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Granlund had 41 points during the season, 64 points the season before. I dunno how that screams negative value to me.

Agreed, I think most of us just didn't like the trade and the timing of it. Him having 2 more years signed didn't help, but I'm willing to give him a shot, maybe a fresh start from the start of the season will do him good.

I dont see him fitting in the top 6 and his money is better spent on other bottom 6. My dream is to get Barbashev and revamp the bottom 6.

Barbashev - Geno - Rust
Engvall - Kampf - Nylander
DOC - Poehling - Cater

You need money for that. This team doesn't have assets to make trades mid year. They need to make a splash in FA.

Barbashev was my target at the deadline, but whatever. I think right now with the playoffs he had he is looking at a 6 million dollar a year contract. I think it's still possible to have both in the lineup with Dumo, Zucker and Jarry gone. Let's see if they make more room in the next couple of weeks

 

[gdsmack267]

Is it safe to assume noted morons Rob Rossi’s and/or Josh Yohe were the ones predicting the Pens draft?

Why don’t we just throw Granlund into the Yandle deal with Arizona to get it finished since Rossi said it was a done deal.

Those two drive me insane. They are Penguins TMZ with even less legit sources.

Granlund had 41 points during the season, 64 points the season before. I dunno how that screams negative value to me.

The biggest negative with him is the cap hit and role. Hes really not suited for a bottom 6 role and if their answer for Zucker walking is to move Granlund to 2nd line that is a clear downgrade IMO. Id feel a little bit better with him on the third line if he was making $2.5-3 million range.

I think a Third line center should be one of their top 3 priorities next to starting goalie and top 4 LD.

 

[SEALBound]

Agreed, I think most of us just didn't like the trade and the timing of it. Him having 2 more years signed didn't help, but I'm willing to give him a shot, maybe a fresh start from the start of the season will do him good.


Barbashev was my target at the deadline, but whatever. I think right now with the playoffs he had he is looking at a 6 million dollar a year contract. I think it's still possible to have both in the lineup with Dumo, Zucker and Jarry gone. Let's see if they make more room in the next couple of weeks

Barbashev earned whatever deal he's about to sign quite honestly. He reminds me a lot of Nichushkin in Colorado. He came in, played extremely well at good value, and then got paid. And while he still plays well and provides okay value at the new hit, it just that much less you have for another depth piece. Probably okay if you have a young ELC guy to insert but in our case, I'm not sure we can do it.

I was playing on CF AGM quite a bit last night and one thing came to me - if we can get a decent "hometown" discount for Zucker to resign, that may be our best route. If you can get him at $4mil for 4yrs or so, that plugs a major LW hole and still leaves room for other upgrades.

 

[Andy99]

Barbashev earned whatever deal he's about to sign quite honestly. He reminds me a lot of Nichushkin in Colorado. He came in, played extremely well at good value, and then got paid. And while he still plays well and provides okay value at the new hit, it just that much less you have for another depth piece. Probably okay if you have a young ELC guy to insert but in our case, I'm not sure we can do it.

I was playing on CF AGM quite a bit last night and one thing came to me - if we can get a decent "hometown" discount for Zucker to resign, that may be our best route. If you can get him at $4mil for 4yrs or so, that plugs a major LW hole and still leaves room for other upgrades.

I just dont want us to pursue players age 30 or over and I definitely don’t trust Zucker to put the same effort in during a non contract year as a contract year because his best seasons have been contract years…also dont trust him to stay major injury-free…lol

That makes him a bad fit here, not a worthless buyout scrub.

Well it makes him worth a lot less than his cap hit…he should be moveable with retention unless someone else wants him for top line minutes and PP, which I doubt…to move his entire cap hit though probably would require a draft pick add…

 

[deakka]

Instead of buying Granlund out, can't we just retain kets say 1 million Granlund @4 million is not that bad. Could probably get us a 3-4 round pick in return. And we only be on the hook for 1m for 2 seasons Instead of the buyout penalty?

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Barbashev earned whatever deal he's about to sign quite honestly. He reminds me a lot of Nichushkin in Colorado. He came in, played extremely well at good value, and then got paid. And while he still plays well and provides okay value at the new hit, it just that much less you have for another depth piece. Probably okay if you have a young ELC guy to insert but in our case, I'm not sure we can do it.

I was playing on CF AGM quite a bit last night and one thing came to me - if we can get a decent "hometown" discount for Zucker to resign, that may be our best route. If you can get him at $4mil for 4yrs or so, that plugs a major LW hole and still leaves room for other upgrades.

This last year really makes me want to bring back Zucker but I am just worried about his health as well as age.

I really wanna target guys under 30. We are the oldest team in the league right now.

Instead of buying Granlund out, can't we just retain kets say 1 million Granlund @4 million is not that bad. Could probably get us a 3-4 round pick in return. And we only be on the hook for 1m for 2 seasons Instead of the buyout penalty?

If a team would take Granlund at 833 000 or whatever the number is next year retained for 2 years and we got future considerations

I'd do that.

 

[deakka]

This last year really makes me want to bring back Zucker but I am just worried about his health as well as age.

I really wanna target guys under 30. We are the oldest team in the league right now.


If a team would take Granlund at 833 000 or whatever the number is next year retained for 2 years and we got future considerations

We will have a cap penalty for 4 years tho if we buy him out. Think year 3 and 4 are a higher penalty than the first two years.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm generally of the opinion that 14th overall is a pretty mid pick. But using it to move Granlund unless a very close pick is coming back is dumb.

That said dude's GOTTA go. The idea of trying to prop the guy up even part of next year is a non-starter.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Probably have an easier time moving Granlund than Rust due to contract length, NMC's notwithstanding. Granlund isn't a great player, but if a team has a spot in their top 6 they can shelter, he won't absolutely waste the opportunities. Some team like the Ducks would probably take him with a small sweetener or as part of a larger deal.

 

[Darren McCord]

Agreed, I think most of us just didn't like the trade and the timing of it. Him having 2 more years signed didn't help, but I'm willing to give him a shot, maybe a fresh start from the start of the season will do him good.


Barbashev was my target at the deadline, but whatever. I think right now with the playoffs he had he is looking at a 6 million dollar a year contract. I think it's still possible to have both in the lineup with Dumo, Zucker and Jarry gone. Let's see if they make more room in the next couple of weeks

Only so much money to go around. Zucker, Bertuzzi, Barbashev, Bunting

Not everyone is hitting 6 million

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

People are down on Granlund because of the whole "he's terrible" thing. Not because we're a bunch of big meanies. Dude had one goal in 21 games with the team and didn't look like he could fit anywhere even if you did some real stupid shit like gift him big minutes on PP1 and one of the top lines.

Like maybe you squeeze 50 points out of him that way (remember Rust had 40some and supposedly he's terrific) but you trainwreck the roster in doing so. Big win, there.

 

[Peat]

I just dont want us to pursue players age 30 or over and I definitely don’t trust Zucker to put the same effort in during a non contract year as a contract year because his best seasons have been contract years…also dont trust him to stay major injury-free…lol

I trust his commitment levels more than most. I don't think he took a single night off as a Penguin. You never know with 30+ guys who've got their money tied up, but he seems to have that Hornqvist buzzsaw style trait.

A 30+ guy hanging around the net that much and playing that hard is asking for trouble though.



edit: Since this is coming up again -

Granlund is a horrific fit here. He is a negative when it comes to the forecheck, which is the foundation of Sully's system. He is a good playmaker, but a team with Sid and Geno need shooters more than playmakers. They also need guys to go to the net front and battle in the corners to help preserve their bodies, and that's not Granlund at all.

You can create a very specific third line playmaker role where he can possibly give value where going up the line up, but that's not worth 5m even if it does work, and if he gets worse he's just not worth icing at all.

I wanted Granlund a lot when he still had legs and when Sid/Geno were younger and capable of doing more themselves. Unless the clock moves back on those things, hoping he'll work out here is like hoping that the square peg will go in the round hole. Just go get a round peg and take whatever the hit is.

 

[Lust for Life]

I don't think Granlund is terrible. I genuinely don't.

I think he's a bad fit for the current day Penguins though. Which means he could probably go back to being a 50-60 point guy elsewhere.

 

[Sideline]

I trust his commitment levels more than most. I don't think he took a single night off as a Penguin. You never know with 30+ guys who've got their money tied up, but he seems to have that Hornqvist buzzsaw style trait.

A 30+ guy hanging around the net that much and playing that hard is asking for trouble though.

There are two types of 30 plus contracts that scare me. The Carter/Zucker type where they just have a ton of mileage on them so no amount of attitude and effort can keep the moving and the Semin type where the guy has always been a bit floaty and knows this is his last bag anyway.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Probably have an easier time moving Granlund than Rust due to contract length, NMC's notwithstanding. Granlund isn't a great player, but if a team has a spot in their top 6 they can shelter, he won't absolutely waste the opportunities. Some team like the Ducks would probably take him with a small sweetener or as part of a larger deal.

Lol.

If Rust waived his NTC we would have many suitors. It was the consensus that he took a big discount last year.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Nothing I saw from Granlund's time here makes me think he'll be anything more than like a 30-35pt guy with this team, bungling things the entire way and failing to fit in anywhere. I don't have a clue how the guy was ever a 65pt player or a 25+ goal guy in Minny.

He can probably find some shit team to pad stats on by being fed big minutes and top PP time, but Granlund the player looked awful last season here and it was pretty universally laughed at when Hextall traded for him with no retention. Huge part of that is fit, and he doesn't fit anywhere, but man... He was a shitshow.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Nothing I saw from Granlund's time here makes me think he'll be anything more than like a 30-35pt guy with this team, bungling things the entire way and failing to fit in anywhere. I don't have a clue how the guy was ever a 65pt player or a 25+ goal guy in Minny.

He can probably find some shit team to pad stats on by being fed big minutes and top PP time, but Granlund the player looked awful last season here and it was pretty universally laughed at when Hextall traded for him with no retention. Huge part of that is fit, and he doesn't fit anywhere, but man... He was a shitshow.

Right. Like CAN you find some absolutely miserable team that is actively trying to be as bad as possible and just trying to fill out a roster to take him on? Maybe... there's like two or three I guess. If that team played him as many offensive minutes as possible with their best players and every single minute of PP time available could he score 50 points and possibly 20 goals? I guess? His legs look near gone to me but I guess it's possible... sheer opportunity affords a lot.

Is the player I'm describing anything better than pretty much terrible? If not I think we're kind of splitting hairs or quibbling about terms being used. Is "extremely not good" better?

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Barbashev earned whatever deal he's about to sign quite honestly. He reminds me a lot of Nichushkin in Colorado. He came in, played extremely well at good value, and then got paid. And while he still plays well and provides okay value at the new hit, it just that much less you have for another depth piece. Probably okay if you have a young ELC guy to insert but in our case, I'm not sure we can do it.

I was playing on CF AGM quite a bit last night and one thing came to me - if we can get a decent "hometown" discount for Zucker to resign, that may be our best route. If you can get him at $4mil for 4yrs or so, that plugs a major LW hole and still leaves room for other upgrades.

To be honest, I hope we turn the page on Zucker. There will be some decent depth on the market that would be a cheaper option and also that doesn't carry the injuries that he has gone threw in past seasons.

There is Domi that can play C or LW, Bunting of course, Bertuzzi, Tatar less than 3 years, and even taking a wild shot at Drouin for a 1 year deal and see if he can rebound. He just isn't done for the pressure of playing in Montreal

 

[Peat]

There are two types of 30 plus contracts that scare me. The Carter/Zucker type where they just have a ton of mileage on them so no amount of attitude and effort can keep the moving and the Semin type where the guy has always been a bit floaty and knows this is his last bag anyway.

What 30 plus contracts does that leave?

I think Zucker's mileage levels are okay. 628 games, 11 pro seasons is a lot, but he should be good for another 200-250 games, which takes this team to the end anyway. No major injuries where you're waiting for them to go again. Still a very good skater.

I just look at what he'll cost and the likely attritional costs and... well, hard to like it. Particularly when I want to see the team put some money in guys who might still have unexplored ceiling.