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[ChaosAgent]

Oh you're saying Zucker is signed to a UFA style contract? Not really. We'd be lucky to get a Zucker caliber player (i.e. Tatar) at 5.5 x 2.

Zucker was certainly signed to a UFA-style contract which we forked over 2/3 of our best prospects to inherit.

NHL free agency tracker 2020: Full list of signings, best available players

Only 4 guys got an AAV >$5.5M last year. 3 were goalies.

You think Tatar's going to cost that much? Sig bet?

 

[Kristopher Letang]

I wonder why the WHOLE team looks like trash in the playoffs?

Should we trade them all?

Or...

Letang’s fault.

 

[Gurglesons]

Zucker was certainly signed to a UFA-style contract which we forked over 2/3 of our best prospects to inherit.

NHL free agency tracker 2020: Full list of signings, best available players

Only 4 guys got an AAV >$5.5M last year. 3 were goalies.

You think Tatar's going to cost that much? Sig bet?

Last year was a very different offseason and so was the cap world when Zucker was acquired.

Nah. I'm not convinced in terms of Tatar's value.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Last year was a very different offseason.

Ah unlike this year, flush with cap space.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Letang’s fault.

Oh right right.

Or Malkin. Don't forget him. He's been trying to sink this franchise for over a decade.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ah unlike this year, flush with cap space.

I mean, franchises like Boston weren't spending. Goodrow already got 3.6 x 6. I think this year will be very different.

I dunno man. The Zucker trade was bad at this point retrospectively, but like the Brassard trade the value was fair at the time.

And I think you should just wait and see. Zucker could definitely bounce back this season. Especially since he won't be forced to play with Malkin for at least a couple months.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think most would agree that they'd take back the Zucker deal if they could. Right?

Uh... right?!?

 

[ChaosAgent]

I mean, franchises like Boston weren't spending. Goodrow already got 3.6 x 6. I think this year will be very different.

Your best comp is Zuccarello. Though of course he was and is better than Zucker.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'd pretty much like a rewind button on all trades/UFA signings going back to Brassard.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think most would agree that they'd take back the Zucker deal if they could. Right?

Uh... right?!?

Sure. But, like.. I'd take back every deal we made since 2017. Is that a fair way to judge trades?

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think most would agree that they'd take back the Zucker deal if they could. Right?

Uh... right?!?

Some people are IN TOO DEEP
And they're trying to keep
All the blood in their head
Instead of going under

 

[HandshakeLine]

Sure. But, like.. I'd take back every deal we made since 2017. Is that a fair way to judge trades?

I'd pretty much like a rewind button on all trades/UFA signings going back to Brassard.

Lol

 

[Gurglesons]

Your best comp is Zuccarello. Though of course he was and is better than Zucker.

I mean, Tatar signed basically an identical contract to Zucker.

Miller, Nino, Schwartz, etc.

You're trying to compare it to Zuccarello when they aren't even comparable in terms of age and circumstance.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think most would agree that they'd take back the Zucker deal if they could. Right?

Uh... right?!?

I was going to respond to this with saying "the only deal I wouldn't want to undo since the 2017 cup win is XXX", but I legit couldn't think of a deal I wouldn't want to undo since 2017

Reaves trade sucked. Brassard trade sucked. The Bjugstad/McCann trade sucked the least, but it still sucked. They lost a 2nd for Fleury only for Murray to collapse, and then they got only a 2nd for Fleury. Then Jarry became garbage. They overpaid for Kapanen. I wouldn't have re-signed Hornqvist, so that takes out the Hornqvist-Matheson trade (but this is probably the trade I hate the least). Sprong for MP was a good trade ruined by a bad contract. I'm almost tempted to put the Marino trade in the same category.

Maybe the Carter trade?

 

[ChaosAgent]

I mean, Tatar signed basically an identical contract to Zucker.

Miller, Nino, Schwartz, etc.

So it's worth it to give up assets to pay UFA market value to a guy?

Tampa valued quality-relative-to-contract. Which is intuitively obvious except for sports where the median GM is an ex-player. They got Coleman. We got lil Zucky. Those 2 goals in his first game doe.

 

[Gurglesons]

So it's worth it to give up assets to pay UFA market value to a guy?

Tampa valued quality-relative-to-contract. Which is intuitively obvious except for sports where the median GM is an ex-player. They got Coleman. We got lil Zucky. Those 2 goals in his first game doe.

Zucker wasn't getting UFA market value when we got him. He was getting 5.5 on a cap that was about to explode because of expansion. You need to look at things relatively versus looking at them retrospectively.

I think everyone on this forum, myself included said the deal was an overpayment when it happened?

But, yeah. Zucker and Coleman are pretty fair comps. Coleman also got more than we paid for Zucker and Tampa wasn't dumping cap on Jersey to acquire him.

Coleman put up 31 points this year. Zucker paced for 27 points.

Coleman put up 11 points in the playoffs. Zucker paced for 12 in the same amount of games played as Coleman.

Tampa also was paying 5 million dollars to play Tyler Johnson on their 4th line this year so let's not act like they are the cap geniuses upon geniuses.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Zucker wasn't getting UFA market value when we got him. He was getting 5.5 on a cap that was about to explode because of expansion. You need to look at things relatively versus looking at them retrospectively.

I think everyone on this forum, myself included said the deal was an overpayment when it happened?

Let me just pre-emptively pass on signing any forward to a $5.5M deal when they scored 71 points, including 48 at even strength, over their previous 126 games. And were a -12 in doing it.

(Checks Saad's numbers)...okay, much better at even strength.

Not only was it an overpay in acquisition cost, he's not a $5.5M player, period. Now another org has decided that Tanev is more of a $3.5M player than he is a $5.5M player.

 

[Doogle]

This board: the pens have too many players with bloated contracts who don't produce in the playoffs!
The penguins: free up cap space by dumping two players with 1 career playoff goal between them in 22 combined playoff games as a penguin
This board: noooo not like that!

 

[Gurglesons]

Let me just pre-emptively pass on signing any forward to a $5.5M deal when they scored 71 points, including 48 at even strength, over their previous 126 games. And were a -12 in doing it.

(Checks Saad's numbers)...okay, much better at even strength.

Not only was it an overpay in acquisition cost, he's not a $5.5M player, period. Now another org has decided that Tanev is more of a $3.5M player than he is a $5.5M player.

I'm so confused by your argument here. Zucker was a 5.5M dollar player when we acquired him prior to a pandemic completely altering the landscape of hockey.

The fact that the cap has come crashing down is not an argument that is valid to criticize that trade.

Once again, everyone said it was an overpay, but it wasn't insanely egregious. It was just the typical Rutherford isn't going to win any trade deal.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

In principle, I don't mind the expansion draft. Expansions are good for the league in the long-run, plus a big expansion like the WHA-NHL merger in 1979 led to our favorite firewagon era of hockey. But eh...

Much much different era and skill level now.

Back then there were only a handful of guys who could really play skillful hockey and those players took advantage of what would look like beer league skaters now.

Today the talent/training/skill has risen that there really aren't those pylons to dunk on anymore. You've got so many players on an even playing field. Sure there are outliers like Matthews, Crosby, MacK but the gap isn't as big as it once was.

I think there is too much parity where no one really stands out, hence I'm against further expansion.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I'm just gonna wait for the ED and stop reading Lebrun spoilers.

I respect his reporting but this is a special event. We don't need to know every player before they're announced.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sure. But, like.. I'd take back every deal we made since 2017. Is that a fair way to judge trades?

Hahaha... true enough.

I really tried to see the bright side of them at the time, though. For as much as people think of me as a pessimist.

But... yeah... been a very "Carolina JR" kinda team since the second of the B2B Cups. If anything I wish Mario would have been like "WTF are you doing?!?" way sooner than last year.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think most would agree that they'd take back the Zucker deal if they could. Right?

Uh... right?!?

In hindsight obviously. Moreso because he isn't utilized correctly.

But I would do the trade again if I was promised Zucker would get more Crosby time other than a cursory glance.

 

[dogthateats]

I'm just gonna wait for the ED and stop reading Lebrun spoilers.

I respect his reporting but this is a special event. We don't need to know every player before they're announced.

That is why the pick from Detroit is still a mystery!

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'm so confused by your argument here. Zucker was a 5.5M dollar player when we acquired him prior to a pandemic completely altering the landscape of hockey.

The fact that the cap has come crashing down is not an argument that is valid to criticize that trade.

Once again, everyone said it was an overpay, but it wasn't insanely egregious. It was just the typical Rutherford isn't going to win any trade deal.

Did the pandemic make the cap go down?

I get your argument somewhat that the cap increasing acts as a "aw shucks we clearly overpaid him but he'll take a smaller percentage moving forward." That still doesn't make him worth that contract given what I saw with my eyes on the ice.

As recently as early this year you had fans acting like he was better than Rust. No.

If he stays I hope he bounces back. Like I've said, without Malkin he has a better chance.